Raditz/Nappa Battle Power

[Rocketman]

A crushed and crippled Goku destroyed Oozaru Vegeta's eye.

[Kamiccolo9]

Second, I am familiar with that interview, and at no point did he insult the Daizenshuu. He said that he drew Super Saiyan as a 10x increase, because he didn't know what he'd make a 50x increase look like. He's speaking in an artistic sense, not an in-universe one. Not once did he say "how bad" the 50x multiplier was.

What??? He drew the SSJ as a 10x increase, because he wanted it to be a 10x increase. I mean, how can you say he "didn't know what he'd make a 50x increase look like"? Since when there's a rule about how an increase has to be drawn exactly?
He wrote the manga with the idea of Goku SSJ being a 10x increase, said by the author himself.

And if someone isn't asked about something, but he feels the urge to bring that topic on the table it's because he had to be really amused at how bad the Daizenshuu was. I mean, no one speaks about something he isn't asked for if he isn't really willing to speak about it.
The 50x multiplier on Goku's SSJ it's like the 32,000 units of Goku's KKx4 against Vegeta, absolutely unjustifiable no matter how one tries to do it. Well, there's a justification though, "there are no rules besides that I'm right", but that one isn't a valid justification at least for me.

He specifically says he drew it with a since of 10x. And what's more, that particular interview is from the Super Exciting Guide, which goes on to say that SSJ is a 50x boost (while also giving the boosts for the other forms). If Toriyama was so set against the 50x boost like you claim, why would the same guide in which the interview took place, of which Toriyama was a supervisor, have the 50x boost in it? And I would also like to see a single quote where Toriyama explicitly criticizes the Daizenshuu, seeing as he approved of them, and wrote about how he wished he had had them. I mean, surely you're not making that up, right?

[Kaboom]

The best way I can figure it out is that Toriyama's not denying or contradicting that Super Saiyan is a 50x boost -- He's just saying that he has a hard time picturing it that big. Which is true and understandable; we toss around power levels math all the time, but from a more practical standpoint it can be hard to picture a power increase that huge.

[Herms]

People gloss over this a lot, but specifically what Toriyama says is that at the time he drew Super Saiyan with the idea of Goku being 10 times stronger than he had been up until that point. And of course, up until that point, Goku had been using the Kaio-Ken to make himself 10 and then 20 times stronger. The x50 multiplier really only makes Goku 5/2.5 times stronger than he had been up until that point.

[freezamite]

A crushed and crippled Goku destroyed Oozaru Vegeta's eye.

Yes, that's what happens when you hit a vulnerable spot. Not only a crippled Goku destroyed Oozaru Vegeta's eye, a bit of dust on Zarbon's eyes was enough to blind him. Does that mean that the dust was 30,000 units strong? Or does it mean that the eye is a particularly vulnerable spot?

He specifically says he drew it with a since of 10x.

Yes, it happens that mangas are drawn. The KKx3 was drawn in a sense of being 3x, for example.

And what's more, that particular interview is from the Super Exciting Guide, which goes on to say that SSJ is a 50x boost (while also giving the boosts for the other forms).

Which means that they didn't rectify that section, or that they didn't give that much importance at Toriyama's words.

If Toriyama was so set against the 50x boost like you claim, why would the same guide in which the interview took place, of which Toriyama was a supervisor, have the 50x boost in it?

Toriyama didn't supervise those guides. In fact, it wouldn't be any strange that that part of the guide had already been designed/made way before the interview was done, then they did the interview and they simply didn't care to change the whole section or simply didn't give any importance to that claim.
The fact is that Toriyama, even when he wasn't asked for it, had the urge to say this, which means that he really felt the need to clarify that point and to give his opinion.

What he would never suspect is that some fans instead of saying "hey look at what Toriyama said, this may prove those guides to have some mistakes on them", actually said "pffff, Toriyama believes that he knows more about his work than a guide made by someone else, what a fool".

seeing as he approved of them

Do you really think that he supervised those guides? No, Toriyama was asked to write a prologue to a guide by the ones that actually pay him, so he wrote the prologue and that's it.
Had he supervised the guide, he wouldn't have had to say this on an interview, he directly would have put the SSJ at 10x instead of 50x

The best way I can figure it out is that Toriyama's not denying or contradicting that Super Saiyan is a 50x boost -- He's just saying that he has a hard time picturing it that big. Which is true and understandable; we toss around power levels math all the time, but from a more practical standpoint it can be hard to picture a power increase that huge.

Sorry Kaboom, but it's a bit strange to see that you that defend that power levels were totally random and that they didn't follow any logic now saying that you apply some kind of math to them, which would imply some rules.
In fact, if the manga rules are applied, the 50x SSJ can't be justified by any means, while the 10x SSJ is perfectly in line with what was drawn, which reinforces Toriyama's point of view.

People gloss over this a lot, but specifically what Toriyama says is that at the time he drew Super Saiyan with the idea of Goku being 10 times stronger than he had been up until that point. And of course, up until that point, Goku had been using the Kaio-Ken to make himself 10 and then 20 times stronger.
The x50 multiplier really only makes Goku 5/2.5 times stronger than he had been up until that point.

1. KK is a technique, it's not part of Goku's strength.
2. If you count the techniques used, then you may also count the Genkidama on it. You do know perfectly that this isn't what Toriyama was referring to, because if you count the KK then you also have to count that at that point Goku was so injured that he couldn't even stand up by himself.
3. From this same page guide:
" Since Goku had already multiplied his power 10 and 20 times with the Kaiō-Ken as he fought Freeza, did Toriyama mean that he thought of Super Saiyan as being 10 times stronger than that, meaning it would make Goku overall 100 or 200 times stronger than he normally was? If so, it is hard to make sense of Toriyama saying that a 50-fold increase is too large. "
It's impossible that Toriyama meant that he was 10x times stronger than KKx20 because the 50x increase was too much, and that 50x increase was done over Goku's real power and not the one increased through KK.

The question I have at this point is:
Why is it so difficult to accept Toriyama's words, when they're the only number that really makes any sense? Toriyama's 10x increase is the only increase that doesn't break any statement made on the manga, the only one possible (well, it could also be a 9x increase, but since he said 10x there's no reason to put 9x over 10x), and the only one confirmed by the author himself.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

We saw that a Kaio-ken x20 Kamehameha was only able to hurt 50% Freeza's palm, and then we saw Super Saiyan Goku kicking Full Power Freeza's ass without much difficulty. The x10 multiplier for Super Saiyan can't make sense. The multiplier must be something over x40, and x50 is a good number. Besides, Toriyama approved the Daizenshuu & Super Exciting Guides, meaning that he also approved the x50 multiplier, especially when it doesn't contradict anything.

[freezamite]

We saw that a Kaio-ken x20 Kamehameha was only able to hurt 50% Freeza's palm, and then we saw Super Saiyan Goku kicking Full Power Freeza's ass without much difficulty. The x10 multiplier for Super Saiyan can't make sense. The multiplier must be something over x40, and x50 is a good number. Besides, Toriyama approved the Daizenshuu & Super Exciting Guides, meaning that he also approved the x50 multiplier, especially when it doesn't contradict anything.

When you say this, you're ignoring the most important fact, the Genkidama.
Can anyone say that kid Gohan was stronger than Goku because he could hit Vegeta, while Goku couldn't even fight against him with the KKx2?
SSJ x50 contradicts the manga in those points:
1. 50x over Freezer's 40x would have been a 1 hit kill. It's 25% the difference, much more than the one between Dodoria and Vegeta.
2. It doesn't take into account the context. SSJ was activated against a Freezer that was badly injured, so at that point of the fight Freezer's full power wasn't even near what it should be in normal conditions. Besides that, Freezer implies at least 1 time the lost of energy, and he says it directly another time.
3. Cell's absorptions doesn't make any sense.
4. It contradicts the author statement about that.

10x makes sense because:
1. It obviously respects the "around 10%" rule since Freezer's power lost can be scaled according to it without contradicting anything that's said or done.
2. In every single fight, except for a few cases where it's explicitly said, an injured character loses energy the more injured he is. It doesn't matter if before being badly injured Freezer could resist a 20x KK at his 50%, and it also wasn't of any importance that Vegeta could defeat Goku at 2x KK when he still wasn't injured by KKx3, KKx4, losing his tail, making the moon, etc. when it comes to judge Gohan's power when he fought against an injured/exhausted Vegeta. If the SSJ its a 50x increase, then kid Gohan had 17.000 units of energy because he did a better job fighting Vegeta than Goku did with his 2x KK.
3. Cell's absorptions scale perfectly.
4. It's what the author said he drew!

And do you really believe that those guides had Toriyama's approbation? Toriyama works for shueshia, and shueshia has the rights of DB and they can do whatever they want with them. If Toriyama was tired of working on the DB manga (said by himself) because he had already too much work, do you really think that he was also working on the guides?
You're again adapting reality to your assumptions, and not your assumptions to reality. If Toriyama in an interview said that this 50x isn't what he drew, this automatically demonstrates that he didn't supervise or approve the 50x increase!

[KentalSSJ6]

I'm going to be blunt here.

The only thing thats being demonstrated is your bull-headed stubbornness. You are going off your own theories and beliefs and believe they hold more weight than official and published material of a series approved by the series author. That alone and no offense, holds much, much more weight than the theories and assumptions of a fan. I have yet to see anyone agree with anything you have said in any post or thread of yours. Kaboom and others have disproved your statements and theories time and time again and yet you still continue going about saying the Daizenshuus are BS and Toriyama said and didnt say this and that. Not to mention any scans you have provided as evidence are the horribly grainy and poorly translated scanlations you find all over the internet.

I know you wanna believe what your saying here Mite, but in all honesty your arguments have nothing behind them, especially when compared to established material that has been around for years and almost universally accepted by fans.

If you feel that you must go on about power scaling and power levels, why not just keep all this in the power level thread we have?

[VegettoEX]

The question I have at this point is:
Why is it so difficult to accept Toriyama's words, when they're the only number that really makes any sense?

I don't know how many times I can explain this to you. I'm trying really hard, but you're just not getting it. If it's my explanation, then please, someone else jump in and see if they can also get it across. I don't know if it's me, something lost in perhaps some non-native-English somewhere... I don't know.

Someone might want to work with the other official numbers out there. That's it. They might like it. It's what they want to do. It's great if you don't, but they do. It's their prerogative. If they want to have fun and attempt to make it work, by all means, let them knock themselves out and have a total blast doing so.

Just like I get absolutely nothing out of battle power discussions but instead find incredible value in discussions about the musical score to the animated version, someone might find incredible value in digging into additional numbers for the series outside just the manga itself.

Everything you post - even when backed up with great points and attempted research - unfortunately just keeps going back to, "Well why don't you just agree with everything I say and only everything I say?" Please stop it. Please, please, please stop it. Even when you wrap it up with otherwise polite posts, it's incredibly condescending and counter-productive. You're not having a discussion; you're talking down to everyone.

[Rocketman]

A crushed and crippled Goku destroyed Oozaru Vegeta's eye.

Yes, that's what happens when you hit a vulnerable spot. Not only a crippled Goku destroyed Oozaru Vegeta's eye, a bit of dust on Zarbon's eyes was enough to blind him. Does that mean that the dust was 30,000 units strong? Or does it mean that the eye is a particularly vulnerable spot?

So power levels don't matter if you hit weak points? Like, say, the heart?

[dbzfan7]

unfortunately just keeps going back to, "Well why don't you just agree with everything I say and only everything I say?" Please stop it. Please, please, please stop it. Even when you wrap it up with otherwise polite posts, it's incredibly condescending and counter-productive. You're not having a discussion; you're talking down to everyone.

That's pretty much been the definition of the last few threads I've seen. Pretty much why I stopped getting involved. They were headaches more than fun discussions.

[freezamite]

Someone might want to work with the other official numbers out there. That's it. They might like it. It's what they want to do. It's great if you don't, but they do. It's their prerogative. If they want to have fun and attempt to make it work, by all means, let them knock themselves out and have a total blast doing so.

Just like I get absolutely nothing out of battle power discussions but instead find incredible value in discussions about the musical score to the animated version, someone might find incredible value in digging into additional numbers for the series outside just the manga itself.

It's fine if they do, I'm not forcing them to do otherwise. But this thread for example, it's to discuss Raditz and Nappa's battle power.
It's only logical that if some people have different visions on the series regarding one aspect, and this aspect is discussed, that every part gives his opinion to the other part and try to convince them, or at least, to try to convince the author of the thread. I mean, this is why we discuss, this is why the creator of this thread created it, because he wanted to clarify this part of the series because he felt that the additional information given by the Daizenshuu wasn't perfectly right. In front of that fact it's logic that different opinions collide, and I don't see what's wrong with that.
Yes, I'm conscious that telling other people that I think their opinions on the series are wrong may annoy them, but... isn't that their problem for not accepting a criticism instead of mine for debating their ideas?

Everything you post - even when backed up with great points and attempted research - unfortunately just keeps going back to, "Well why don't you just agree with everything I say and only everything I say?"
Please stop it. Please, please, please stop it. Even when you wrap it up with otherwise polite posts, it's incredibly condescending and counter-productive.

The past week I opened a thread regarding perfect Cell's power being equal to Freezer's power. This was my opinion and not only it was criticized (which is completely fine) but I was even INSULTED (accused of trolling, accused of speaking without having read the manga, etc.) and that thread had to be closed even when I never answered to those provocations nor I traded a single personal insult with anyone.

The difference here is that when someone tells me that I'm wrong I grab the manga, I try to justify my stance, and if I realize that I'm wrong I admit it (like I have already done in this thread for example), but when other people are told to be wrong, they enrage and feel insulted and start a personal war against me.

Yes, it's true that my posts have the message "well why don't you just agree with everything I say and only everything I say" behind. But isn't this also true for every single post in that thread? When someone tells me that the true numbers are the ones found in the Daizenshuu and not the ones I think are right, isn't that the exact same message that lies behind my posts?

What happens is that it seems that I'm clearly in the minorities, and besides that, that there are some posters that get offended when their opinions got debated. It may be easier to ask me to shut up or not to discuss those things, but isn't that censorship?
Instead of asking me to stop defending my opinion (and in which case, you should also ask Kakashi to stop defending Raditz being below 1300, or DBZGTKOSDH to rectify his assertion at Nappa's 4000 being wrong) wouldn't it be more logical to ask the ones that are offended if someone disagrees with them to calm down a bit?

I never disrespect anyone, I even constantly add rhetoric phrases like "in my opinion" or "I think that" in order to make even more evident that I'm conscious that I can be wrong and also corrected. What I won't do it's to change my view on something only because if I don't someone may get offended, and even more if it's something Dragon Ball related because I don't see why anyone should feel offended by something as unimportant as that.

You're not having a discussion; you're talking down to everyone.

I feel sad to see you believing this when in this same thread I admitted being wrong at least once. It's not that I'm talking down to everyone (since there are some posters that agree with me I couldn't even if I tried to, and it could also be said that "everyone" is talking down to me), it's just that I'm on the vocal minority and I like to discuss my opinion and other people's opinion until I think a conclusion is reached.
The problem here it's not me, it's the people that doesn't accept to be contradicted in anything, the same people that now say things like "anyone can believe what he wants" when they can't argue against some of my points but that only a few days ago were insulting me for having a different opinion than them.

I won't change my view on the manga unless someone proves it wrong with solid facts, if you feel that the most appropriate way to deal with that is to ban me from this forum, then I'm afraid this will be my last message here.
Regards.

You are going off your own theories and beliefs

If they're only my theories and beliefs that should be pretty easy, you quote my "belief", then you post a page of the manga that demonstrates that it isn't true, and there you have it.

and believe they hold more weight than official and published material of a series approved by the series author.

Again, instead of accommodating your explanation to the facts, you accommodate the facts (or ignore them) to your explanation.
FACT 1: The guides say the SSJ was a 50x increase.
FACT 2: Toriyama said that he didn't draw the SSJ with a 50x increase on mind, but with a 10x increase.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MY CONCLUSION: Toriyama didn't read or see the Power level section of the guide before it was published. When he saw it, and in an interview for another guide that of course still wasn't published, he felt the need to clarify his position towards what he thought was "weird" (the 50x increase), and he explained what he really wanted it to be.

WHAT I BELIEVE IS YOUR CONCLUSION: Toriyama forgot what he wrote on the manga, and he made a mistake when he said SSJ was 10x. I don't know how that can be coupled with him approving the 50x increase, but in any case, if that's true then the manga will surely provide enough evidences of him being wrong and the 50x increase being the only possibility, or at least, the 10x increase being absolutely impossible.

Now it seems that you stick with option two, in which case you should grab the manga and explain how it was possible for it to be a 50x increase and impossible for it to be a 10x increase.

That alone and no offense, holds much, much more weight than the theories and assumptions of a fan.

Yes, and it seems that it also holds much, much more weight than the AUTHOR'S OWN WORDS, even when that guide has undeniable mistakes like KKx4 Goku at 32000 or Nappa at 4000.

I have yet to see anyone agree with anything you have said in any post or thread of yours.

Well, you also didn't see how I said that the quotes on Raditz's words weren't literal.
On this same thread, Kakashi also thinks that Raditz's battle power has to be lower than 1300, and regarding Nappa's 4000 there have been various posters agreeing in that it was a mistake.

Kaboom and others have disproved your statements and theories time and time again and yet you still continue going about saying the Daizenshuus are BS and Toriyama said and didnt say this and that.

1. What Toriyama said is something that I grabbed from this website, if you disagree on what he said, talk to Herms and not to me.
2. Kaboom seems a very respectable guy and I'm sure he knows a lot about Dragon Ball, but since he himself admitted that this "battle power" discussions didn't interest him unless he is Akira Toriyama in person I don't see why his opinion has to have more weight than any other opinion of any other else.

Not to mention any scans you have provided as evidence are the horribly grainy and poorly translated scanlations you find all over the internet.

Yet except for those sentences of Raditz that I was lazy to search, I always use Herm's translation to prove my point and the scanlations for when I think that visual information it's also required.

I know you wanna believe what your saying here Mite, but in all honesty your arguments have nothing behind them, especially when compared to established material that has been around for years and almost universally accepted by fans.

My arguments have the manga behind them, or at least that's what I think. If that's not the case, you are free to prove it. It won't be the first time I admit being wrong, in fact, in this very same thread I acknowledged that when I tried to demonstrate Daizenshuu's incoherency using the Daizenshuu's data and logic. I couldn't do it, so I had no problem to admit it. Will you be able to do the same?

If you feel that you must go on about power scaling and power levels, why not just keep all this in the power level thread we have?

Because even when it is a power level discussion, some other aspects are also discussed here. In fact, I wasn't the one who opened this thread.

So power levels don't matter if you hit weak points? Like, say, the heart?

You mean the torso? Well, if the torso was a weak point in Dragon Ball then you should be able to find other examples of that, like I found other examples of the eyes being a specially vulnerable spot.
But you've to remember that it is not only the damage dealt by Gohan's 1307 hit what is in conflict with Daizenshuu's 1500 number, it's also the claim that a 1200 saibaman was at the same level of raditz in terms of power and that differences smaller than this one were impossible to overcome in other fights.

[Fionordequester]

Freezamite, I haven't really read these threads TOO carefully, but even if you happen to be correct (I don't know), this isn't the right way to go about it. The moment you make your fellow debaters mad, they generally clam up and are less willing to hear what you have to say. Plus the whole thing becomes one long and tedious slog as walls of text after walls of text are exchanged. I'm sure you didn't intentionally make them mad, but even so, you'd best sit on this for a few days or a week or so, so people can calm down.

Really, trust me. I've seen this sort of thing before on other forums (heck, I'VE been that guy accidently!), and it never seems to end well for the person in your position, nor do they ever manage to actually convince their fellow debaters, who are just supremely irritated. And if you ARE being condescending (I don't know), that's not justified, not matter how polite you are about it, as seen with Frieza himself.

[freezamite]

As I said, I already admitted being wrong when I was given enough reasons to think so, so I don't think I'm being condescendant with anyone.
And I also think that you're right in that when someone gets enraged because his point has been pointed wrong, that it's really difficult to make them change their opinions.

But in this case, if we are discussing this it's because someone posted a legit question regarding this, and it seems that precisely him it's one of the few that at this point defends the same position as me.
If I think someone is giving him what I personally consider wrong information, even I this could end with me banned from the site, I will give my opinion so the one that makes the question at least can know that there's someone that thinks how I think.

He wanted to know other people's stance regarding something he was interested in, and I let him know what my stance is and why I think this is the most valid one. It happens that he already had a very similar opinion than me, so more than convincing him I've been defending his point of view since the beginning.

Now if as I said this is something that makes other people to enrage and to become mad, that's not my fault and I won't shot up.

I appreciate your advice and I thank you for it, but if some adjective describes me I would say that this is "obstinate". I will admit being wrong if I'm proved to, but I won't change what I have to say only because it can be troublesome to me.
Regards!!

[DBZGTKOSDH]

When you say this, you're ignoring the most important fact, the Genkidama.

I'm not ignoring anything. Freeza got very injured sure, but then he powered-up to 100% full power. If he lost power from the damage he got through the Genki Dama, he recovered that power, otherwise, he wouldn't be at 100% full power. And then SS Goku still kicked his ass.

1. 50x over Freezer's 40x would have been a 1 hit kill. It's 25% the difference, much more than the one between Dodoria and Vegeta.

Except that Goku wasn't trying to kill Freeza, he wanted to destroy his pride.

2. It doesn't take into account the context. SSJ was activated against a Freezer that was badly injured, so at that point of the fight Freezer's full power wasn't even near what it should be in normal conditions.

Like I said above, if Freeza wasn't at 100% Full Power, he wouldn't say so. Powering-up restored his stamina, and the same thing seems to has happened to Goku as well, since he couldn't even move on his own before the transformation. SS Goku is also stated to be stronger than FP Freeza, and the strongest in the universe. If SS Goku defeated Freeza because Freeza was injured, then Freeza is the real strongest in the universe.

3. Cell's absorptions doesn't make any sense.

3. Cell's absorptions scale perfectly.

What does Cell have to do with this?

4. It contradicts the author statement about that.

4. It's what the author said he drew!

Also in the Super Exciting Guide: Story Volume, Toriyama revealed in an interview that he thought a multiplier of 50 was rather large, and that he had originally drawn it with the sense of being a 10-fold increase in what Goku had been “up until then”. [...] Perhaps the answer is that Toriyama is being his usual forgetful self, since he himself admits in the same interview to have forgotten much of Dragon Ball′s story himself, and that we should not take these numbers he throws out too seriously.

Toriyama has admitted many times that he rarely planned things in the story & that he forgets stuff all the time. We are talking about the same guy that had Goku blow up Cell's upper body & he regenerated, and then had Cell say that he can regenerate as long as the nucleus in his head is intact. The same guy that made the Dragon Balls being unavailable for 1 year after a wish, but made the Dragon Balls available after 8 months. The same guy that in the recent years confused #18 with Norimaki Arale, forgot Taopaipai, and Super Saiyan 2 (which made him think that Super Saiyan 3 is Super Saiyan 2). He could have easily forgot that he had already made a x20 Goku being weaker than a 1/2 Freeza, and he himself admits that we shouldn't take his numbers seriously.

And do you really believe that those guides had Toriyama's approbation? Toriyama works for shueshia, and shueshia has the rights of DB and they can do whatever they want with them. If Toriyama was tired of working on the DB manga (said by himself) because he had already too much work, do you really think that he was also working on the guides?

Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule today….
Toriyama
I’m not busy at all. My work for the Dragon Ball Daizenshuu has also settled down, so I’m not doing any work right now. (laughs)

You're again adapting reality to your assumptions, and not your assumptions to reality. If Toriyama in an interview said that this 50x isn't what he drew, this automatically demonstrates that he didn't supervise or approve the 50x increase!

Or, he thinks that the x50 increase is fine, even though he had x10 in his mind.

[VegettoEX]

You're not going to get banned for expressing an opinion or legitimately asking a question. Please stop being so overdramatic about it.

You are, however (or at least have been up until a certain point), veiling your rudeness and stubbornness by pretending to ask for extra opinions and thoughts, when it was clear you were never going to listen to them in the first place. We've been over this, however, and if you legitimately want to listen to what other fans have to say and why they might want to justify those thoughts, by all means continue your discussion.

[freezamite]

When you say this, you're ignoring the most important fact, the Genkidama.

I'm not ignoring anything. Freeza got very injured sure, but then he powered-up to 100% full power. If he lost power from the damage he got through the Genki Dama, he recovered that power, otherwise, he wouldn't be at 100% full power. And then SS Goku still kicked his ass.

To power up to 100% full power is to use all the strength he had. Vegeta also used his full power against Gohan, it's just that the full power of someone injured is always smaller than the full power of someone at an excellent condition.
I'll put you another example with Freezer himself:
Wasn't Freezer still using his 100% full power when Goku said that he quit the fight, because Freezer had already lost too much power? Yes, he was. But because of him becoming too tired his energy dropped too much and his 100% became weaker than what it was just after it's activation.
And also when he is cut in two parts by his own Kienzan, and he asks Goku's help, wasn't he still at his 100% full power form, only that due to the brutal injury he wasn't even able to fly?
% are relative measures, they only represents the portion of something, but if that something changes, they also change. In other words, 100% it's the same as "using all the energy" and regardless if at one point you have 10, 5 or 2, as long as you use all those 10, 5 or 2 you will be using the 100% of your energy in all those scenarios even when 10 it's 5 times 2, and 2 times 5.

Except that Goku wasn't trying to kill Freeza, he wanted to destroy his pride.

Goku wasn't sure he could beat Freezer until his power dropped, him having an acting of compassion doesn't negate that the match was even.
If Freezer had never been a thread for SSJ Goku, then he would've quit the fight in the very first moment Freezer had reached his 100% even without starting to fight.

What does Cell have to do with this?

It's also a piece of data that allows us to approximate the strength of a SSJ, since he was compared to SSJ on the manga.

Also in the Super Exciting Guide: Story Volume, Toriyama revealed in an interview that he thought a multiplier of 50 was rather large, and that he had originally drawn it with the sense of being a 10-fold increase in what Goku had been “up until then”. [...] Perhaps the answer is that Toriyama is being his usual forgetful self, since he himself admits in the same interview to have forgotten much of Dragon Ball′s story himself, and that we should not take these numbers he throws out too seriously.

Toriyama has admitted many times that he rarely planned things in the story & that he forgets stuff all the time. We are talking about the same guy that had Goku blow up Cell's upper body & he regenerated, and then had Cell say that he can regenerate as long as the nucleus in his head is intact. The same guy that made the Dragon Balls being unavailable for 1 year after a wish, but made the Dragon Balls available after 8 months. The same guy that in the recent years confused #18 with Norimaki Arale, forgot Taopaipai, and Super Saiyan 2 (which made him think that Super Saiyan 3 is Super Saiyan 2). He could have easily forgot that he had already made a x20 Goku being weaker than a 1/2 Freeza, and he himself admits that we shouldn't take his numbers seriously.

Him being forgetful or having made some errors doesn't make automatically wrong anything he says. In fact, you used this same argument against me when you admitted that Daizenshuu's 4000 for Nappa wasn't right, but that this didn't demonstrate that the other data wasn't true.
Now it seems that you're committing the same mistake you warned me about (although I never said anything in those lines) so my question is:

Spoiler:

Could you be Perfect Cell's incarnation on this forum? (joking)

Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule today….
Toriyama
I’m not busy at all. My work for the Dragon Ball Daizenshuu has also settled down, so I’m not doing any work right now. (laughs)

Yes, he worked on the Daizenshuu. He did various interviews, he also wrote an introductory page for each/some volumes and he may also participated in other aspects of it.
Does this mean that he revised the whole guide and that he approved something he publicly disagreed with? Well, I don't think so.

Or, he thinks that the x50 increase is fine, even though he had x10 in his mind.

Yes, this could be another possibility. I don't think he was as invested on power battle discussions as some of us are for example, so even when he wrote the manga with 10x on mind and he also find weird the 50x increase interpretation, he could very well accept that this made some sense to someone.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

To power up to 100% full power is to use all the strength he had. Vegeta also used his full power against Gohan, it's just that the full power of someone injured is always smaller than the full power of someone at an excellent condition.

Vegeta had lost a lot of power due to his fight with Goku, so he wasn't at 100% against Gohan.

I'll put you another example with Freezer himself:
Wasn't Freezer still using his 100% full power when Goku said that he quit the fight, because Freezer had already lost too much power? Yes, he was. But because of him becoming too tired his energy dropped too much and his 100% became weaker than what it was just after it's activation.
And also when he is cut in two parts by his own Kienzan, and he asks Goku's help, wasn't he still at his 100% full power form, only that due to the brutal injury he wasn't even able to fly?

Freeza was still in his bulked state, but he wasn't at 100%, since he had lost power from his fight with Goku.

Goku wasn't sure he could beat Freezer until his power dropped

When was that stated?

If Freezer had never been a thread for SSJ Goku, then he would've quit the fight in the very first moment Freezer had reached his 100% even without starting to fight.

Goku told Kaio that he wanted to avenge Kuririn because to his knowledge, Kuririn was permanently dead.

It's also a piece of data that allows us to approximate the strength of a SSJ, since he was compared to SSJ on the manga.

How?

Him being forgetful or having made some errors doesn't make automatically wrong anything he says.

Of course, but when we have 10 < 20, but Kaio-ken x20 < Super Saiyan, then there is a problem in having Super Saiyan as a x10 multiplier.

Yes, he worked on the Daizenshuu. He did various interviews, he also wrote an introductory page for each/some volumes and he may also participated in other aspects of it.

He said he was no longer busy. How does meeting with interviewers & writing small paragraphs, all that in the during one year, make him busy?

Does this mean that he revised the whole guide and that he approved something he publicly disagreed with? Well, I don't think so.

If he saw something that he didn't feel it was right, do you think he wouldn't say "you shouldn't write that"?

[Rocketman]

Q: When is 100% not 100%?

A: When you're trying to justify your made-up rules for power levels.

[freezamite]

Vegeta had lost a lot of power due to his fight with Goku, so he wasn't at 100% against Gohan.

He wasn't at 100% compared to what he usually is, but he was using 100% of the power he had at that moment.

Freeza was still in his bulked state, but he wasn't at 100%, since he had lost power from his fight with Goku.

If he was still in his bulked state, that means that he was at his 100% form, using 100% of the strength he had left.

When was that stated?

Goku abandons the fight when he knows that Freezer can't possibly win, that means that until that point he thought Freezer had a chance.

Goku told Kaio that he wanted to avenge Kuririn because to his knowledge, Kuririn was permanently dead.

So he lost the Kamehame exchange against Freezer loosing his consciousness in the process and taking heavy damage in order to avenge Krilin?
Goku and Freezer were even, but Freezer got tired sooner because his 100% put an extra burden on his body (I guess that this is due to him being so strong that he never had to train) so his strength decreased faster than Goku's. This is the explanation that's given.

How?

Don't we know how many humans Cell had absorbed, how many strength an average human has and how he compared to Vegeta SSJ before and after the absorptions?

Of course, but when we have 10 < 20, but Kaio-ken x20 < Super Saiyan, then there is a problem in having Super Saiyan as a x10 multiplier.

Yes, that's if Kaio-ken x20 < SSJ, but as I explained, Freezer like every other character in DB (besides the few with unlimited energy) loses strength every time he is injured, and he was badly injured by when Goku reached his 100% form.

He said he was no longer busy. How does meeting with interviewers & writing small paragraphs, all that in the during one year, make him busy?

How many paragraphs did he had to write? Maybe he was in charge of other sections of the guide...

If he saw something that he didn't feel it was right, do you think he wouldn't say "you shouldn't write that"?

Which means that he didn't see that, because otherwise he wouldn't have said what he said on that interview he made. I mean, if he said the 50x multiplier was weird and that he drew the manga with a 10x increase on mind, that means that he disagreed with the 50x multiplier.

Q: When is 100% not 100%?

A: When you're trying to justify your made-up rules for power levels.

No, seriously, this is not the way to answer, and even less if you can't understand something as simple as Freezer's % of strength used being something relative to the power he had at the moment. Even if that wasn't the case (I think it clearly was), you should at least understand that this is what I'm arguing.
If you want to mock me, at least do it well.