Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
So this got asked over in the main RF thread:
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Dbzk1999 wrote:Quick Question:
So from the way whis describes it, can Beerus casually destroy suns?
I'm out of the loop, so is there some new thing Whis says about Beerus in the new movie, or is this just asking about Whis' statement from BoG about Beerus destroying the solar system if he gets upset?
Herms wrote:So this got asked over in the main RF thread:
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Dbzk1999 wrote:Quick Question:
So from the way whis describes it, can Beerus casually destroy suns?
I'm out of the loop, so is there some new thing Whis says about Beerus in the new movie, or is this just asking about Whis' statement from BoG about Beerus destroying the solar system if he gets upset?
In the 2nd chapter of the RF manga Whis mentions that Beerus once destroyed 2 suns when his sleep was disrupted
Herms wrote:I'm out of the loop, so is there some new thing Whis says about Beerus in the new movie, or is this just asking about Whis' statement from BoG about Beerus destroying the solar system if he gets upset?
Apparently Beerus destroyed two suns and Whis got back in time to stop him from actually doing so.
Without the actual Japanese text I can't say much, but if the statement's coming from the sketchy-looking scanslation someone posted in the main movie thread, then it wouldn't surprise me too much if there were some mistranslation in there. Not that I really find it implausible that Beerus could destroy two suns, it's just that a lot of the people scanslating random stuff related to this movie seem to make lots of mistakes (see also: "Toriyama's making a new manga!").
Without the actual Japanese text I can't say much, but if the statement's coming from the sketchy-looking scanslation someone posted in the main movie thread, then it wouldn't surprise me too much if there were some mistranslation in there. Not that I really find it implausible that Beerus could destroy two suns, it's just that a lot of the people scanslating random stuff related to this movie seem to make lots of mistakes (see also: "Toriyama's making a new manga!").
So if anyone needs a reason why 1000 mooks is stupid....this.
Here's Krillin. He can't do shit to Cell. Can't budge or hurt him. He is a fly. Exactly how strong do you think the mooks are in comparison to our heroes here.?
Here is Vegeta. Much much much much closer to Cell than Krillin, and yet all he could do was slightly budge him. Cell is not hurt at all. Are people telling me these mooks have powers closer to our heroes than Cell and Vegeta here?
1000 mooks are literally 1000 ants. They'd be annoying, but they can't physically harm anyone beyond Roshi and maybe the other humans....and that's a big maybe.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
You're assuming that they all would have a similar power though, but we've seen that's not the case. The trailer shows everyone easily beating many grunts, but it also shows that red demon guy with the new style armor who seems much stronger than the others. There might be others too. So, you could have stronger soldiers beating up Piccolo or Gohan and then weaker grunts blasting them after they're weakened.
Neon Z wrote:You're assuming that they all would have a similar power though, but we've seen that's not the case. The trailer shows everyone easily beating many grunts, but it also shows that red demon guy with the new style armor who seems much stronger than the others. There might be others too. So, you could have stronger soldiers beating up Piccolo or Gohan and then weaker grunts blasting them after they're weakened.
You really don't seem to get how gaps work. Literally it's impossible for any mook to even hurt our heroes. Are you telling me these soldiers are as strong as Cell, Super Vegeta, etc. The point is someone like Vegeta who is really strong (especially when compared to mooks), can't even harm Cell. Guys like Gohan, and Gotenks if he showed up, and Piccolo wouldn't feel a thing with this larger gap. Saiyans all the time only were sent in small groups, and annihilated entire planets worth of people.
If any grunt was stronger than Freeza (which still wouldn't hurt someone like Gohan or Piccolo or the boys) then they woudn't revive Freeza. The problem with the WTO was that they had no strong soldiers anymore. So they couldn't do their jobs. Tagoma is Zarbon level and is partnered with Sorbet as the leader.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Neon Z wrote:You're assuming that they all would have a similar power though, but we've seen that's not the case. The trailer shows everyone easily beating many grunts, but it also shows that red demon guy with the new style armor who seems much stronger than the others. There might be others too. So, you could have stronger soldiers beating up Piccolo or Gohan and then weaker grunts blasting them after they're weakened.
You really don't seem to get how gaps work. Literally it's impossible for any mook to even hurt our heroes. Are you telling me these soldiers are as strong as Cell, Super Vegeta, etc. The point is someone like Vegeta who is really strong (especially when compared to mooks), can't even harm Cell. Guys like Gohan, and Gotenks if he showed up, and Piccolo wouldn't feel a thing with this larger gap. Saiyans all the time only were sent in small groups, and annihilated entire planets worth of people.
If any grunt was stronger than Freeza (which still wouldn't hurt someone like Gohan or Piccolo or the boys) then they woudn't revive Freeza. The problem with the WTO was that they had no strong soldiers anymore. So they couldn't do their jobs. Tagoma is Zarbon level and is partnered with Sorbet as the leader.
There is every chance that once Freeza felt as though became stronger than Godku, he quickly traveled through the universe and recruited super strong soldiers, to enhance his chances of taking over Earth and compensate for all the soldiers his army lost following the revolts of several of the planets that were formerly under his control after he died.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Neon Z wrote:You're assuming that they all would have a similar power though, but we've seen that's not the case. The trailer shows everyone easily beating many grunts, but it also shows that red demon guy with the new style armor who seems much stronger than the others. There might be others too. So, you could have stronger soldiers beating up Piccolo or Gohan and then weaker grunts blasting them after they're weakened.
You really don't seem to get how gaps work. Literally it's impossible for any mook to even hurt our heroes. Are you telling me these soldiers are as strong as Cell, Super Vegeta, etc. The point is someone like Vegeta who is really strong (especially when compared to mooks), can't even harm Cell. Guys like Gohan, and Gotenks if he showed up, and Piccolo wouldn't feel a thing with this larger gap. Saiyans all the time only were sent in small groups, and annihilated entire planets worth of people.
If any grunt was stronger than Freeza (which still wouldn't hurt someone like Gohan or Piccolo or the boys) then they woudn't revive Freeza. The problem with the WTO was that they had no strong soldiers anymore. So they couldn't do their jobs. Tagoma is Zarbon level and is partnered with Sorbet as the leader.
There is every chance that once Freeza felt as though became stronger than Godku, he quickly traveled through the universe and recruited super strong soldiers, to enhance his chances of taking over Earth and compensate for all the soldiers his army lost following the revolts of several of the planets that were formerly under his control after he died.
I think no one understands how insane the gap is. Super Vegeta to Cell was nothing. So let's put say Ultimate Gohan vs any mook. Are any of them even remotely close to Super Vegeta? Also people bitch about Ledgic and Rilid being random insanely strong aliens in the universe...but having Freeza magically find people a hell of a lot stronger than he was is pretty silly.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:So let's put say Ultimate Gohan vs any mook.
Who?
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
What really happened, going by the nature of Minus, was Bardock politely telling them to excuse him while Frieza and him have a conversation over a cup of space tea. They listened. There was no tea though.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
The new chapter makes me glad that Beerus hasn't been cheapened and is still considered a force to be reckoned with. He's still way stronger than Goku and Vegeta, and if he actually bothered to fight he could take out Freeza easily. So I don't think he'll be fighting much in this movie.
Wish I could ask where everyone is seeing the new chapter...
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
Even better we have Bardock not remotely hurt or bothered by these guys, and they're levels are way closer than our heroes compared to them.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
