Would Z have been as successful on US TV if JPN BGM was kept

[kei17]

To be fair, the Faulconer score IS dated now, too. Its cheap synths and outdated Techno style must sound "boring" and "shitty" to kids these days and they must think the fans of such music are old geezers who can't let go of the past.

That's why the so-called "theif" Yammamoto beats all! Doesn't have the old wall-to-wall techno nor the shitty 1930 polka tambourine music.

Yammamoto>Falconer>all of the other replacement composers>>dirt>>>>>>Kikuchi!

Could you knock off your frivolous rant filled with personal hatred that adds nothing to the discussion, please?

I was just saying that the "newer = better" logic is just ridiculous.

[VegettoEX]

Agreed. Nonsense posts like that will be deleted going forward. Your equations aren't welcome. Your words, however, are, provided they are written with care, civility, and genuine purpose.

[EXBadguy]

You saying that a personal hatred rant over a score is nonsensical, but saying that it's laughable if a person prefers another score over the original isn't?

Alright *hands up* I got it.

[kei17]

You saying that a personal hatred rant over a score is nonsensical, but saying that it's laughable if a person prefers another score over the original isn't?

Alright *hands up* I got it.

I don't understand what you "got" here, but no one said Faulconer is below dirt. You're completely missing the point.

[Zephyr]

Stiiiill sounds like it came from a 1960 martial arts movie.

That's precisely why it fits, Dragon Ball is...

I don't think that's what Z is about

...oh it's this argument again.

Yeah, I treat DB and Z differently, I don't care.

Well the producers didn't seem to. Toriyama didn't end the manga and decide to make a sequel. Toei may have had Toriyama throw a Z on to the name for the latter portion of the anime adaptation, but not much changes. And no, Funimation didn't begin dubbing Dragon Ball, get through to the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai arc, and then decide "wow, the series up until now and what will come after are completely night and day, they're literally two different stories! The background score should reflect that".

Let's see if we can't expedite this.

No, the story including more sci-fi elements and slightly tipping the balance against fantasy elements isn't necessarily grounds for a complete OST overhaul, it's still a fantasy martial arts story with sci-fi elements. No, the series simply continuing the gradual tonal shift that it's head since the second story arc isn't necessarily grounds for arbitrarily drawing a line and having a complete OST overhaul, it's still a fantasy martial arts story with a continually darkening tone (until the Buu arc). No, the series simply continuing the gradual increase in the insanity of combat isn't necessarily grounds for arbitrarily drawing a line and having a complete OST overhaul, it's still a fantasy martial arts story (all of that flying around and exchange of energy blasts is still martial arts). These may or may not be the arguments you would give in support of changing the score, but they're certainly the ones I see most often, and none of them necessarily entail the conclusion of "and thus, the score needs to be changed". There's a premise missing here that explains why these three premises require a musical change, especially in light of the fact that it is literally, factually, objectively, the same single story, regardless of opinions on the matter.

Yall can say what you want about Yammamoto, but the Budokai and Kai soundtracks are one of the best soundtracks of DB in general, whether if some of the songs plagiarized another song or not.

That...doesn't make him not a thief though. You can make a case that the end result of his thievery was a positive one for the fanbase (I certainly won't disagree there, the Budokai games had amazing OSTs), but that doesn't make it not thievery.

[Herms]

You saying that a personal hatred rant over a score is nonsensical, but saying that it's laughable if a person prefers another score over the original isn't?

Alright *hands up* I got it.

I don't understand what you "got" here, but no one said Faulconer is below dirt. You're completely missing the point.

Yeah, the point was (as Mike said) "your equations aren't welcome" but your words are. If you've got a point worth making, then you should be able to express it as something a bit more fleshed out than "x>>>dirt>>y". That's nonsense, and perhaps more importantly, you're really not doing your viewpoint any favors by expressing it like that.

[EXBadguy]

Well the producers didn't seem to. Toriyama didn't end the manga and decide to make a sequel and etc, etc, etc....

Whatever dude, we'll just agree to disagree on that. I look at some parts of DB in a different way than you, so what?

That...doesn't make him not a thief though. You can make a case that the end result of his thievery was a positive one for the fanbase (I certainly won't disagree there, the Budokai games had amazing OSTs), but that doesn't make it not thievery.

I never said he wasn't a thief. I know the shit he's done and I won't deny that. I'm just saying whether if some of the songs sound very similar to another, Yammaoto has some of the best DB songs out there, eons better than Kikuchi, that's fo sho'.

Yeah, the point was (as Mike said) "your equations aren't welcome" but your words are. If you've got a point worth making, then you should be able to express it as something a bit more fleshed out than "x>>>dirt>>y". That's nonsense, and perhaps more importantly, you're really not doing your viewpoint any favors by expressing it like that.

Fine I apologize for that, but you guys think it's okay to let somebody here laugh at other people who prefer Falconer or any other composer over the original? HUH?! You'll never see me do that. You like what you freaking like!

[GS7X7]

I don't care if the DBZ Kai guy is a thief or not- Chrono Trigger stole "Never Give You Up" for Robo's theme and it worked perfectly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ8xce9HtD8

Hahah, I never realized it til now but Robo actually does live up to all the lyrics in the song!

One of Faulconer's most popular songs ("Super Buu theme") was something he took from System of a Down's Marmalade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woHtuw_xtcc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYonN5N40XE

So, yeah, as far as I'm concerned, anything any DBZ music dude wants to do to make better music short of sacrificing kittens to the devil is just fine with me.

[VegettoEX]

The attitude stops now, or your time here ends now. The end. That's it. The. End.

That goes for everyone, but I'm specifically addressing you, EXBadguy. Don't play the victim. Don't toss out red herrings. If you're being warned, suck it up and be humble about it. No-one wants to read your indignant responses. As Jake said, it's not doing you or your argument any favors.

[EXBadguy]

I didn't feel like I was playing the victim. All I'm saying is that it's unfair, that's all, but okay, I'll let it go.

One of Faulconer's most popular songs ("Super Buu theme") was something he took from System of a Down's Marmalade.

I thought that song was there after Super Buu's theme.

[kei17]

The dub score fans often refer to the "Z is more sci-fi centered so Kikuchi's oldschool martial arts music doesn't work there" kind of logic, but I always wonder why they cannot hear the clear shift in Kikuchi's style from Z. His music got darker and darker and less oriental as the series went on, so from the Android arc, you rarely hear any tracks from the original series. Those who not recognizing it and unable to tell the difference without a change in music genre itself are like people with no sense of taste that they can't distinguish Big Mac from cheeseburger and never notice their meal is secretly replaced with other menu unless changing it from hamburger to spaghetti or something. Or else, they're just having a prejudice against it.

[Zephyr]

Well the producers didn't seem to. Toriyama didn't end the manga and decide to make a sequel and etc, etc, etc....

Whatever dude, we'll just agree to disagree on that. I look at some parts of DB in a different way than you, so what?

You're free to view the series however you like. It just seems quite odd to take a subjective view of the series and use that perspective as a premise for why something is more appropriate. It just comes off as circular logic. "Well I watched the series this way, therefore that is the way I perceive the series, therefore the changes that were made to the original version to create the way I watched the series were warranted and appropriate". If I'm misconstruing your argument, by all means clarify, take the time needed to clearly articulate what you're trying to get across.

You're free to have your own view of things, but using that and that alone as your sole base for assessing the quality of things doesn't make for good arguments, and thus does a poor job of supporting your assessment. Moreover, actively ignoring the reality of the production process and nature of the narrative weakens the assessment further. The whole thing just comes off like poorly reasoned, nostalgia-fueled revisionist history; like ad hoc justification for the unnecessary changes Funimation made. And this is coming from someone who grew up watching the entire series on Toonami and enjoyed it thoroughly.

[ABED]

The dub score fans often refer to the "Z is more sci-fi centered so Kikuchi's oldschool martial arts music doesn't work there" kind of logic, but I always wonder why they cannot hear the clear shift in Kikuchi's style from Z. His music got darker and darker and less oriental as the series went on, so from the Android arc, you rarely hear any tracks from the original series. Those who not recognizing it and unable to tell the difference without a change in music genre itself are like people with no sense of taste that they can't distinguish Big Mac from cheeseburger and never notice their meal is secretly replaced with other menu unless changing it from hamburger to spaghetti or something. Or else, they're just having a prejudice against it.

Agreed, and it fits because the show changed over time. It wasn't one big change, it was a number of little changes and a few big ones over the course of the series. If you look at the beginning of DB and Z, they have different feels (though it's still definitely recognizable), but it was a development. It's like a person. If you look at someone when they are a kid and the next time you see them, they are an adult, of course they will look very different, but it didn't happen overnight.

Something honestly tells me ... No.

Looking back at other successful anime in the 90's I feel that 90's trend of synthesizer music really was a staple in TV that it would've been so out of place in DBZ. The action-packed show with a sublime soundtrack seems kind of weird on 90's TV. Look at say, Ronin Warriors. Even the original JP OST consisted of 90's synthesizer music.

Batman and Superman were also very successful. Music plays a role, but it needs to fit, and the action and unique look is what sold the show, not the music.

[EXBadguy]

Well the producers didn't seem to. Toriyama didn't end the manga and decide to make a sequel and etc, etc, etc....

Whatever dude, we'll just agree to disagree on that. I look at some parts of DB in a different way than you, so what?

You're free to view the series however you like. It just seems quite odd to take a subjective view of the series and use that perspective as a premise for why something is more appropriate. It just comes off as circular logic. "Well I watched the series this way, therefore that is the way I perceive the series, therefore the changes that were made to the original version to create the way I watched the series were warranted and appropriate". If I'm misconstruing your argument, by all means clarify, take the time needed to clearly articulate what you're trying to get across.

You're free to have your own view of things, but using that and that alone as your sole base for assessing the quality of things doesn't make for good arguments, and thus does a poor job of supporting your assessment. Moreover, actively ignoring the reality of the production process and nature of the narrative weakens the assessment further. The whole thing just comes off like poorly reasoned, nostalgia-fueled revisionist history; like ad hoc justification for the unnecessary changes Funimation made. And this is coming from someone who grew up watching the entire series on Toonami and enjoyed it thoroughly.

I could be saying all of this to you or any Kikuchi fan as well, put off the nostalgia glasses and take a look at other composers. Notice the difference between DB and Z. Heck, half of the JPN game soundtrack is based on Kikuchi.

Plus, what does looking at things differently cuz of nostalgia have to do with anything? If anything, I gave Kikuchi a chance, then I decided that I didn't like it at least for Z. Too generic for my taste, even if the tone of the music changed, it still had the same generic tunes. Everytime I skim through an arc of any DB series, I always take a look at the tone. I mean, HOW can anyone here not notice the differences of tone between the early DB and the later DB and Z(half of Tien to Cell)?

[ABED]

I could be saying all of this to you or any Kikuchi fan as well, put off the nostalgia glasses and take a look at other composers. Notice the difference between DB and Z. Heck, half of the JPN game soundtrack is based on Kikuchi.

Except many of us Kikuchi fans saw the dub first and the original second.

HOW can anyone here not notice the differences of tone between the early DB and the later DB and Z(half of Tenshinhan to Cell)?

Everyone notices it, but it changed over time. It didn't go from 1 to 11 in an instant.

[Kamiccolo9]

I could be saying all of this to you or any Kikuchi fan as well, put off the nostalgia glasses and take a look at other composers. Notice the difference between DB and Z. Heck, half of the JPN game soundtrack is based on Kikuchi.

Plus, what does looking at things differently cuz of nostalgia have to do with anything? If anything, I gave Kikuchi a chance, then I decided that I didn't like it at least for Z. Too generic for my taste, even if the tone of the music changed, it still had the same generic tunes. Everytime I skim through an arc of any DB series, I always take a look at the tone. I mean, HOW can anyone here not notice the differences of tone between the early DB and the later DB and Z(half of Tenshinhan to Cell)?

You're ignoring the already mentioned fact that the music did change over time.

[EXBadguy]

Everyone notices it, but it changed over time. It didn't go from 1 to 11 in an instant.

You're ignoring the already mentioned fact that the music did change over time.

*sigh* God.... I SAID that I noticed that it did, I just didn't like the soundtrack still.

[ABED]

*sigh* God.... I SAID that I noticed that it did, I just didn't like the soundtrack still.

What's with the irritated response? We know you noticed it, I responded to your assertion that somehow no one else seemed to notice the change in the show.

[EXBadguy]

*sigh* God.... I SAID that I noticed that it did, I just didn't like the soundtrack still.

What's with the irritated response? We know you noticed it, I responded to your assertion that somehow no one else seemed to notice the change in the show.

I just want to ensure that yall understand that I see it too, cuz it seems that some people think that I don't. BTW, when did the tone of the music actually started changing in Z.

[ABED]

*sigh* God.... I SAID that I noticed that it did, I just didn't like the soundtrack still.

What's with the irritated response? We know you noticed it, I responded to your assertion that somehow no one else seemed to notice the change in the show.

I just want to ensure that yall understand that I see it too, cuz it seems that some people think that I don't. BTW, when did the tone of the music actually started changing in Z.

The music was constantly changing and evolving. New themes were added every so often and old ones were retired, then sometimes brought back.