How strong do you think Goku's base is (in Super)

[Akira]

Here's a random thought, and let me tell you, it helps things make total sense. There was this concept in Z called "suppressed power". There was also this concept in Dragonball where Goku mentioned his "tournament best/battle best" fighting strength. Could it possibly be, that Goku and the others can still do this, and it has been one of the key tenants of Goku's fighting strategy all along? Compare Goku's fight against Frost vs. Vegeta knocking him out of the ring with one shot. Goku, being battle hungry, likes to hold back and have fun. Vegeta has somewhat adopted this strategy too, as they both were trying to conceal Super Saiyan God/Blue until the later rounds, and only use as high a power as was necessary to win against a given opponent.

Super Saiyan Goku at the tournament does not equate to Super Saiyan with power of Super Saiyan God (red) like during the battle with Beerus. Goku suppressed himself down to a Freeza or Cell era level of Super Saiyan power to make sport of the fight with Frost. Vegeta only used Super Saiyan against Magetta to conserve his God (Blue) form for later.

As far as the base form goes, it is (or rather can be) ridiculously strong when needed. Goku vs. Botamo does not necessarily mean Goku was using as much power in Base as he did vs Freeza Final form in Super. I don't believe Goku was using the full extent of his base strength until the initial round of his fight against Hit, and even then, he was trying to find a weakness before powering up further.

Different forms don't seem to equate to a single power, there is a range, and this has always been the case. It has always been one of the things that gave Goku and his friends an edge. You don't need tiers, math equations, or even scouters and battle powers to realize this.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Suppression is anything but an uncommon thought in these discussions. They most definitely were, to an extent. Your specific suggestion doesn't clear up everything though.

A prominent example of such is that regardless of whether you are one of the fans who believe Goku has the power of Super Saiyan God in his base form or not, the strength of Freeza's true form after his resurrection and training in the new material is suggested to be absurdly high. So high, in fact, that none of the other characters, including Piccolo and Gohan, feel they could do a damn thing to counter him, even if they worked together. Yet Goku is not only able fight against such a foe, he has a huge edge over him.

As such, there would be little logic to transforming into a Super Saiyan at a level where he is suppressed to close to what he was during Freeza, Cell or Buu. Both he and Vegeta should have much more of a range than that without transforming at all.

[Akira]

That's a very good point, Devil (you generally have many of them, in various discussions I've participated in with you) I had not thought about it like that. Here's a thought (and it is open to further discussion by the way, as I'm not considering this concrete fact yet, just an inkling thus far from what we've seen), what if the "Godly Ki" is independent of Super Saiyan? As in, they can boost their base with it (hence the "two base theory" many have), but when boosted with Super Saiyan, it results in Super Saiyan Blue? Also partially explains why they had to learn to control their ki to achieve blue, because without it, they can't fully use godly ki or Super Saiyan at the same time? (Goku's battle with Beerus being a somewhat explainable phenomena due to having just come out of the (red) ritual Super Saiyan God form, and he was already instinctively doing something that set him on the path to Blue? And it would be something attainable by Vegeta through training because Whis was already teaching him to control his ki within rather than letting it spill out?

I dunno, it's a working theory at the moment.

[TheMikado]

^ that's the entire concept of the two base theory that's been circulating for months now. It's one of the only logically conclusions to draw outside of poor writing and many new people have been entering into the forums with this same theory as a means of rationalizing the inconsistencies in writing.

[Hitiro]

That's a very good point, Devil (you generally have many of them, in various discussions I've participated in with you) I had not thought about it like that. Here's a thought (and it is open to further discussion by the way, as I'm not considering this concrete fact yet, just an inkling thus far from what we've seen), what if the "Godly Ki" is independent of Super Saiyan? As in, they can boost their base with it (hence the "two base theory" many have), but when boosted with Super Saiyan, it results in Super Saiyan Blue? Also partially explains why they had to learn to control their ki to achieve blue, because without it, they can't fully use godly ki or Super Saiyan at the same time? (Goku's battle with Beerus being a somewhat explainable phenomena due to having just come out of the (red) ritual Super Saiyan God form, and he was already instinctively doing something that set him on the path to Blue? And it would be something attainable by Vegeta through training because Whis was already teaching him to control his ki within rather than letting it spill out?

I dunno, it's a working theory at the moment.

The other issue that crops up with this is the others could clearly sense Goku's strength in relation to Freeza's(After his training) and none of them thought that Goku didn't have a chance. Assuming that Goku was mixing in Godly Ki with his original Ki(Which Beerus said was below Freeza's 100% prior to him training) it would make little sense as to why the cast thought Goku could handle him. In fact when Goku used SSJB they observed that they couldn't sense his Ki anymore. So rather than it be something like this:

Base Goku
Ki: 90
God Ki: 72,000

SSJ Blue
Ki: 0
God Ki: 4,320,000

It would be something more like this:

Base Goku
Ki: 72,000
God Ki: 0


SSJ Blue
Ki: 0
God Ki: 4,320,000