Does anyone else think Super is awful?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Saikyo no Senshi
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Re: Does anyone else think Super is awful?

Post by Saikyo no Senshi » Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:39 pm

Yomi wrote: DBZ invented the "cliches" so it isn't really at fault. As for these other shows, like HxH specifically, what has it done differently?
Can One Punch Man survive without Madhouse? What would the draw be to these shows if they didn't have seasonal budgets?
I'm not saying they're bad, I just don't find them as amazing and well written as everyone seems to think they are. It's just
eye candy, and people make their justifications for it after the fact.
Dragon Ball didn't invent those cliches. Hokuto no Ken came before it and contributed immensely. Saint Seiya ran alongside DB and it deserves credit too. The old Gundam series even had that rivalry trope which no Dragon Ball fan would shut up about how it was Vegeta that made that trope exist which is wrong. It's just that no Western fan had any idea about Japanese cartoons at all. Dragon Ball was incredibly lucky and became the first hit cartoon overseas, so it can be said that it made those cliches popular and known to people, but it didn't invent it.

Well, Madhouse didn't do jack shit other than having it's name plastered on the show as the studio. All the good stuff everyone saw in OPM was the work of the best freelancers and young but extremely talented webgen animators brought together by webgen turned director with connections all over the industry Natsume Shingo who himself is freelance. It's only my opinion, but Genos is a far more interesting character than any Dragon Ball character ever was.

Another misconception is about OPM's budget which was nothing but average. It was the work of those passionate freelance animators wanting to express the simple story in the most interesting and entertaining way possible that made OPM a super success. Madhouse and the budget had little to do with its success.
Last edited by Saikyo no Senshi on Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Does anyone else think Super is awful?

Post by kinisking » Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:49 pm

Acetona wrote:I think Super is average. It has some aspects that make me facepalm from time to time, sometimes even more than GT (but I consider GT bad, so Super's still better). Oh, and I'm talking about the anime. With the exception of the Hit fight, the manga is so much better and I actually think it would be good if it weren't monthly. Also, I'm completely disregarding both Battle of Gods arc (anime and manga) and Resurrection F arc, since they were made just to stall time, and the movies are far better imo.

Plotwise, what irks me more is:
1. Excessive usage of "nostalgia" fanservice. Too much throwbacks from Z. They can do original stories without recycling, as they proved with Battle of Gods arc.
2. Usage of cliched shounen tropes that the franchise avoided for years. "Nakama power": I don't care for that Genki Dama sword thingy, Trunks doing this out of nowhere doesn't make any sense. I said I would disregard RoF arc but I can't not mention Gohan's motivation for training after that. Protect his loved ones? Seriously? What's this? Bleach?
3. Long drawn out "plot episodes". If those said episodes had content, it would be ok, but they don't. They're dragged out as hell. If everything was fast paced like the battles, it would be better. Drawn out fights like Z are a no go too, Hit vs Goku had too much staredowns, but it's still my favorite one to date.

Production values-wise:
1. Terribad art and animation some episodes, even worse than Uchiyama's and Ebisawa's.
2. Bad soundtrack. While it grew on my, because I watch it weekly for like one and a half year, I can't seem to enjoy it too much. Sure, there are great tracks, like that one that plays when Trunks used Mafuba on Zamasu, but I think it lacks the beauty of orchestrated stuff like Kikuchi or Yamamoto.
3. This one is the worst. The sound effects. And it seems that plague was spread all over the franchise, since Xenoverse 2 uses them. At least Nishimura (?? I don't recall his name :oops:) is doing better now than earlier, but I still miss Arai.

Also, I don't mind the no blood thingy, I just find it weird that the baseball episode had more blood than the entire Zamasu arc lol
What do you think Gohan's motivation was during Z?
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Re: Does anyone else think Super is awful?

Post by SSJ Human » Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:12 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:
SSJ Human wrote: And there being three versions of the same character as a villain.
Different versions of the same character is what makes Zamasu's character great as a whole.
SSJ Human wrote: Future Mai doing virtually nothing to help the story despite showing up in all the promotional material.
She did what she could. She led the Resistance army that had been fighting Black, rescued Goku/FT Trunks/Vegeta with Yajirobe's help the first time they fought Black/Zamasu in the Future, and helped FT Trunks with the Mafuba. She couldn't do much more, unless she beat Merged Zamasu... But wouldn't that make the power level tards have a bigger mental breakdown?!
SSJ Human wrote: the Mafuba and Vegito being brought back for nothing.
Still worthy to mention Mafuba exists, because it shows plot continuation and it's a good way to deal with a Immortal Villain.
The reason Vegetto appeared is the same that FT Trunks and an Evil Goku appeared. Fans asked for it. And Vegetto still weakened Merged Zamasu for SSI FT Trunks to beat him with the help of everyone, including Goku and Vegeta. No, FT Trunks is not stronger than SSB Vegeto like some butthurt people have been saying since then, because Vegetto is not a permanent fusion like they always thought, even though they defused the first time in DBZ.

People also have been asking for another character to beat the main villain besides Goku. Even though the only characters Goku beat in Super 70+ episodes without any help was the memorable Botamo and Present Zamasu. Oh yeah, you can count his spar with FT Trunks too if you want. I'm really tired of Goku always winning... :wink:
SSJ Human wrote: them even fighting off Black and Zamasu since it amounted to nothing but furthering Zamasu's plan to destroy humanity, allowing the villain to win even though he was meant to lose and giving us the moral that you might as well give up before you even try with Future Trunks' actions over the arc doing nothing to better his situation.
Since when he was meant to?! Seems like you're just used to cliche endings. This time they decide to give us something more mature.
Bardock also had a sad end in his TV Special and that doesn't mean he should just have accepted his fate and do nothing, because he already knew everyone would be killed by Freeza.
Okay. We'll make 5 Gokus and then his character will be improved. The different versions are all the same thing; a guy who doesn't like mortals. Only difference is how far along he gets with his plans.

She had barely any screentime compared to the Saiyans and Bulma when she was featured in all of this promo material. False advertising at its best.

Vegito showing up for three minutes isn't satisfying to anyone that knew the fusion was permanent and you mean to tell me with a retcon that establishes the fusion as lasting an hour you weren't disillusioned to see him show up for not even a 4th of that?

You realize he had to lose for any of the original series and Z to make sense? How could he beat Freeza, prevent the Saiyans from getting killed off and win when we know from the events of the original manga that was anything but the case? It's the same thing with Rogue One: They have to lose for the story to make sense with the sequels that preceded it. I don't care about Trunks being the one to beat the main villain but what did him winning accomplish? Nothing. Everyone still died. I'm used to endings that are dark as well but most of those still give you something to think about. Look at the ending to American History X, where the brother reforms but still gets killed, by one of the guys he messed with when he was bad. That's dark but it tells you he should have reformed long ago and maybe that might not have happened to him. That gives you something to think about and it's still dark and not a cliché.

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Re: Does anyone else think Super is awful?

Post by Yomi » Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:27 pm

Saikyo no Senshi wrote: Dragon Ball didn't invent those cliches. Hokuto no Ken came before it and contributed immensely. Saint Seiya ran alongside DB and it deserves credit too. The old Gundam series even had that rivalry trope which no Dragon Ball fan would shut up about how it was Vegeta that made that trope exist which is wrong. It's just that no Western fan had any idea about Japanese cartoons at all. Dragon Ball was incredibly lucky and became the first hit cartoon overseas, so it can be said that it made those cliches popular and known to people, but it didn't invent it.

Well, Madhouse didn't do jack shit other than having it's name plastered on the show as the studio. All the good stuff everyone saw in OPM was the work of the best freelancers and young but extremely talented webgen animators brought together by webgen turned director with connections all over the industry Natsume Shingo who himself is freelance. It's only my opinion, but Genos is a far more interesting character than any Dragon Ball character ever was.

Another misconception is about OPM's budget which was nothing but average. It was the work of those passionate freelance animators wanting to express the simple story in the most interesting and entertaining way possible that made OPM a super success. Madhouse and the budget had little to do with its success.
I remember saying "seasonal budget" and most of OPM's animation never really impressed me, there were some great effects throughout, but character animation wasn't too impressive until episode 12. It was mostly repeated frames and 1 minute fights. It was a very smart tactic, but I don't find it that impressive.

What did you think I meant by "seasonal budget" how is it a misconception that I said it was done on a seasonal budget. Isn't that what they mean by "average", they're obviously not talking about a weekly Toei show's budget.

Free-Lance or not, the animation made the show, and that's what I meant by the studio contributing to its popularity. So you telling me that "most of the people in that studio were free-lance" isn't really an argument.
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Re: Does anyone else think Super is awful?

Post by Kishido » Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:38 pm

It's not awful... But not good either.

It really has some huge story telling problems and the pacing is all over the place. Same goes for the animation quality.

still enjoy it

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Re: Does anyone else think Super is awful?

Post by TheMikado » Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:38 pm

Saikyo no Senshi wrote:
Yomi wrote: DBZ invented the "cliches" so it isn't really at fault. As for these other shows, like HxH specifically, what has it done differently?
Can One Punch Man survive without Madhouse? What would the draw be to these shows if they didn't have seasonal budgets?
I'm not saying they're bad, I just don't find them as amazing and well written as everyone seems to think they are. It's just
eye candy, and people make their justifications for it after the fact.
Dragon Ball didn't invent those cliches. Hokuto no Ken came before it and contributed immensely. Saint Seiya ran alongside DB and it deserves credit too. The old Gundam series even had that rivalry trope which no Dragon Ball fan would shut up about how it was Vegeta that made that trope exist which is wrong. It's just that no Western fan had any idea about Japanese cartoons at all. Dragon Ball was incredibly lucky and became the first hit cartoon overseas, so it can be said that it made those cliches popular and known to people, but it didn't invent it.

Well, Madhouse didn't do jack shit other than having it's name plastered on the show as the studio. All the good stuff everyone saw in OPM was the work of the best freelancers and young but extremely talented webgen animators brought together by webgen turned director with connections all over the industry Natsume Shingo who himself is freelance. It's only my opinion, but Genos is a far more interesting character than any Dragon Ball character ever was.

Another misconception is about OPM's budget which was nothing but average. It was the work of those passionate freelance animators wanting to express the simple story in the most interesting and entertaining way possible that made OPM a super success. Madhouse and the budget had little to do with its success.
You know what, I'll concede that Dragonball didn't invent these concepts but you have to admit that Dragonball certainly not only popularized the tropes and cliches, but arguably was one of the franchises to turn these concepts into cliches to begin with, especially for western audiences.

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Re: Does anyone else think Super is awful?

Post by Boo Machine » Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:42 pm

SSJ Human wrote: Okay. We'll make 5 Gokus and then his character will be improved. The different versions are all the same thing; a guy who doesn't like mortals. Only difference is how far along he gets with his plans.

She had barely any screentime compared to the Saiyans and Bulma when she was featured in all of this promo material. False advertising at its best.

Vegito showing up for three minutes isn't satisfying to anyone that knew the fusion was permanent and you mean to tell me with a retcon that establishes the fusion as lasting an hour you weren't disillusioned to see him show up for not even a 4th of that?

You realize he had to lose for any of the original series and Z to make sense? How could he beat Freeza, prevent the Saiyans from getting killed off and win when we know from the events of the original manga that was anything but the case? It's the same thing with Rogue One: They have to lose for the story to make sense with the sequels that preceded it. I don't care about Trunks being the one to beat the main villain but what did him winning accomplish? Nothing. Everyone still died. I'm used to endings that are dark as well but most of those still give you something to think about. Look at the ending to American History X, where the brother reforms but still gets killed, by one of the guys he messed with when he was bad. That's dark but it tells you he should have reformed long ago and maybe that might not have happened to him. That gives you something to think about and it's still dark and not a cliché.
I don't think that was the point he was making with the multiple versions of Zamasu. The Multiple versions allowed us to see Zamasu in different stages of his plan. One where he is still the plotting apprentice, one where he is carrying out his plan, and the other is Black who has dropped pretty much all appearances of being a righteous god and just enjoys the carnage and power. We already knew where the character arc of Zamasu was going to go so wasting time on "building it up" would have just been tiring to watch. So having 3 different stages of Zamasus "Evolution" laid out is a pretty cool way to give us the details, I feel.

That's not really false advertising. The promo material just says she well be there and she well be a central character. And she was. Being able to throw a punch isn't the only thing that makes some one relevant. She was there. She helped where she could.

Should I have been disillusioned by Vegitos retcon? Why does it matter? If it was there or not we all knew Vegito wasn't sticking around for very long. They were going to find some way to diffuse them. At least this way it doesn't just rely on the Dragonballs like they do for everything else and the retcon makes sense considering we didn't have an explanation for the first time they diffused. If someone likes the retcon or not is up to them. And I was one of the ones who didn't want Vegito to be the automatic win card, so for me personally it kind of worked out.

The ending is a mixed bag as I see people get different things from it. Some people like you don't see a point while others find a different one. Like "Life doesn't always work out but you have to keep trying anyway" or something like that. But I'm probably not the one who well change your mind about that part.
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Re: Does anyone else think Super is awful?

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:00 pm

SSJ Human wrote: Okay. We'll make 5 Gokus and then his character will be improved. The different versions are all the same thing; a guy who doesn't like mortals. Only difference is how far along he gets with his plans.
Not really.

- Black didn't want to be Immortal and wanted to keep getting stronger. He learnt about Goku after U7 Kaioshin/Kibito talked about him and he started from there.
This Zamasu stole Goku's body and showed to be the most sadistic of the three.

- Zamasu from FT Trunks timeline was Immortal. He learnt about Goku thanks to the other Zamasu (Goku Black) and didn't show any interest on having Goku's body.

- Present Zamasu. It's the first time we see someone slowly developing and become the main villain. Unlike any other DB villain, Zamasu is not introduced as a bad guy right way.
He is introduced as someone that wonders about the value of Humans existence and starts getting developed from there. He's the only Zamasu that Goku beat.

Their goal was the same and the three like tea, but they are still slightly diferent from each other and that's what makes it good.

I already said what I wanted about your other points, I have no interest in going further.
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Re: Does anyone else think Super is awful?

Post by SSJ Human » Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:06 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:
SSJ Human wrote: Okay. We'll make 5 Gokus and then his character will be improved. The different versions are all the same thing; a guy who doesn't like mortals. Only difference is how far along he gets with his plans.
Not really.

- Black didn't want to be Immortal and wanted to keep getting stronger. He learnt about Goku after U7 Kaioshin/Kibito talked about him and he started from there.
This Zamasu stole Goku's body and showed to be the most sadistic of the three.

- Zamasu from FT Trunks timeline was Immortal. He learnt about Goku thanks to the other Zamasu (Goku Black) and didn't show any interest on having Goku's body.

- Present Zamasu. It's the first time we see someone slowly developing and become the main villain. Unlike any other DB villain, Zamasu is not introduced as a bad guy right way.
He is introduced as someone that wonders about the value of Humans existence and starts getting developed from there. He's the only Zamasu that Goku beat.

Their goal was the same and the three like tea, but they are still slightly diferent from each other and that's what makes it good.

I already said what I wanted about your other points, I have no interest in going further.
We had better with Future Trunks and the present version and there were only two of them. The two Zamasus that didn't become Black are literally the same thing at different stages that still act entirely the same way.

You won't respond to my other points because there is no defense. I explained what makes a dark non-cliché ending work and Super failed to do that with this arc.

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Re: Does anyone else think Super is awful?

Post by sintzu » Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:07 pm

dbs fanboy wrote:The animation quality didn't bother me because the film's fight choreography was terrible and a snoozefest, I even think some cuts of the Golden Freeza vs Goku fight in Super are even better than in the movie.
Another thing it does better than the movie is that Freeza beats up Goku throughout the fight while in the movie he was Goku's punching bag so not only does it make him more of a threat but it makes Vegeta beating him up a lot more impactful cause up to that point Freeza was running roughshot on everyone so in the arc Vegeta truly got the best part of the fight unlike the movie where Goku had already reduced him to nothing.
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Re: Does anyone else think Super is awful?

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:18 pm

SSJ Human wrote: You won't respond to my other points because there is no defense.
:lol: :lol: No, that's not how it works. I just don't like to talk to a wall.
A world without Dragon Ball is just boring.

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Re: Does anyone else think Super is awful?

Post by Merged Zamasu » Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:19 pm

If you think all Zamasu forms are basically the same guy and personality, you clearly don't know anything about the character.

Present Zamasu appeared patient and gentle at first. The Babarians and Goku's insolence where the last straw that confirmed the theory he had cultivated throughout the years spent observing multiple planets: mortals do not learn from their mistakes. This Zamasu was very careless and bold, as he attacked Goku despite the fact a God of Destruction was literally by his side.

Future Zamasu is someone who never met Goku, as such he never felt very angry towards him. Sure, he wanted him dead, but not because he had lost to him in the past (like the other versions of Zamasu), but because he is just a mere mortal. This Zamasu revels in his own immortality, to the point he gave up his training and wasted the fact he was a prodigy from birth. This version of Zamasu only wants to enjoy his immortality, because he know that, whatever his enemies invent, he will always survive. He was very lucky Trunks failed to self-destruct himself, and bring down Future Zamasu along with himself.

Black Goku is far different from the other Zamasus. He is not careless. He is a strategist. He knows his limits and knows when it's time to retreat. The whole point of his character is that Zamasu, ironically, became one with a mortal. His personality as a Supreme Kai was tainted by the Sayans' desire to grow stronger after each fight. Unlike Future Zamasu, Black didn't care about immortality, as long as he could become the strongest.

Then we have Merged Zamasu. At his peak of power, Merged Zamasu revelled in his power and immortality. He easily crushed his enemies. But he was blinded by his arrogance. He won. He effortlessly defeated all who would stand in his way. He was destroying the very surface of Earth. So sure of his victory, it seemed as if Merged Zamasu held back during the beam struggles against Vegeta, Trunks and Goku, sure of his victory. Once Merged Zamasu lost against Goku, the last fraction of sanity he had left was gone. Zamasu realized he had a weakness. He was a flawed deity, imperfect. You could feel in his voice (when he yelled "SON GOKUYEEAH") that he truly fell to madness, losing even the grace and patience he had the Episode before.As time went on, Zamasu became more and more mad and paranoid, until he was no more but a mindless beast, like the Babarians he had witnessed a long time ago. Finally, when he had lost his physical body to a mere mortal, Zamasu completely abbandoned himself to madness, and when he became the Universe, he was no better than Buu.

Present Zamasu is careless and impatient. He basically suicided, by attacking both Beerus and Goku all on his own. He was too blinded by his arrogance. Present Zamasu was informed that his future self had succeeded in his plans, so Zamasu thought he was destined to win, no matter what, and so he blindly charged at both Goku and Beerus. Sadly, that didn't go well. Future Zamasu mostly relies on his immortality to survive fights. He is physically weak, as he willingly gave up training, using immortality as a shield against his enemies. Future Zamasu just wants to relax in his immortality, hence he is so happy to tank very powerful attacks. Black is the smartest out of all forms of Zamasu, he is wise and knows when it's time to get serious and stop playing around. He also became one with a Sayan, as such he displayed the desire to grow stronger and meet more powerful opponents, to test his skills. Merged Zamasu, before he became no more than an animal, is the epitome of the character, the fusion of all these different personalities. He enjoys his immortality (like Future Zamasu), he is very brash and short-sighted (like Present Zamasu) as he defied Zeno himself, but he also retains Black's wisdom and will to grow stronger after each fight, as he hurt himself (with the Light of Justice) just to have a chance at ending his enemies once and for all. Also, Merged Zamasu retained Black's sadism, because he hurt himself to grow stronger.

The only thing these different versions of Zamasu have in common is their shared hatred for mortals. They all have unique traits and different personalities, as well as different ways to achieve their plans. Black switched body with Goku, while Present Zamasu didn't want Goku's body, he wanted a copy of Goku to use as his minion.
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Re: Does anyone else think Super is awful?

Post by SSJ Human » Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:24 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:
SSJ Human wrote: You won't respond to my other points because there is no defense.
:lol: :lol: No, that's not how it works. I just don't like to talk to a wall.
How is it talking to a wall when I ask you why you feel a certain way about this series that differs from mine and actually back it up with reasoning? I didn't think of what you said about Zamasu before but now I know and feel a little differently about it so you posting emoticons to try and laugh off the fact that this arc wasn't good is laughable.

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Re: Does anyone else think Super is awful?

Post by Boo Machine » Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:29 pm

SSJ Human wrote:I explained what makes a dark non-cliché ending work and Super failed to do that with this arc.

To be fair there is no one way to do a dark ending and Cliche doesn't automatically mean bad. It's just a matter of how it was done and if you appreciated it or not. The ending was only Kinda sorta dark if you ask me. It was more Bitter sweet I feel. And as far as bitter sweet endings go I think the one we got was fine.
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Re: Does anyone else think Super is awful?

Post by dbs fanboy » Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:22 pm

sintzu wrote:
dbs fanboy wrote:The animation quality didn't bother me because the film's fight choreography was terrible and a snoozefest, I even think some cuts of the Golden Freeza vs Goku fight in Super are even better than in the movie.
Another thing it does better than the movie is that Freeza beats up Goku throughout the fight while in the movie he was Goku's punching bag so not only does it make him more of a threat but it makes Vegeta beating him up a lot more impactful cause up to that point Freeza was running roughshot on everyone so in the arc Vegeta truly got the best part of the fight unlike the movie where Goku had already reduced him to nothing.
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Re: Does anyone else think Super is awful?

Post by Mazingerdestro » Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:28 pm

Let's start from the basics dbs is not awful. Actually far from it. It's an interesting series with 2 serious flaws.
1. It had a bad start that ended in flaws in animation that it affects it till now and it's the main reason why these posts are usually made.
2. It is a sequel to z and there was already an awful one. People don't trust it and in general the series still lives under the shadow of Z. Which means that fans call small references "copying z" or "lack of originality" but at the same time they are sceptical about something new.

When super parodies z this is immediately received as "the writers have no new ideas". When the show tries something new, the fans reply "it's not as good as z". In general super's chances of been considered unanimously a great series are less than 1% and of course the reason is not bad writing (z had bad writing at some points but nobody paid too much attention) but the bad start.

Nobody says "wow Beerus is like the first bad guy that has character", "wow Goku and Vegeta are working together their relationship is improving", "Goku has flaws that needs to work to achieve and he is not the hero of the day every time????" "Wait Trunks failed???? We didn't win????", which are all new and interesting ideas.

Super has some serious flaws (the most serious of course is the time slot that affects the writing and the violence, leading to silly out of character scenes) but in general is a great series with a lot of potential to grow. Universe 6 and Zamasu Arc both showed that there is a lot of talented people and many interesting ideas. We just need them to execute all these right.

The manga for example feels so good mainly because Toyotaro and Toriyama are a good duo. Toriyama writes the jokes and Toyotaro knows how to draw beautiful battles. Once the anime becomes a full adaptation of the manga, super will explode and even surpass z.

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Re: Does anyone else think Super is awful?

Post by Shuby » Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:21 pm

Saikyo no Senshi wrote:
Yomi wrote: DBZ invented the "cliches" so it isn't really at fault. As for these other shows, like HxH specifically, what has it done differently?
Can One Punch Man survive without Madhouse? What would the draw be to these shows if they didn't have seasonal budgets?
I'm not saying they're bad, I just don't find them as amazing and well written as everyone seems to think they are. It's just
eye candy, and people make their justifications for it after the fact.
Dragon Ball didn't invent those cliches. Hokuto no Ken came before it and contributed immensely. Saint Seiya ran alongside DB and it deserves credit too. The old Gundam series even had that rivalry trope which no Dragon Ball fan would shut up about how it was Vegeta that made that trope exist which is wrong. It's just that no Western fan had any idea about Japanese cartoons at all. Dragon Ball was incredibly lucky and became the first hit cartoon overseas, so it can be said that it made those cliches popular and known to people, but it didn't invent it.

Well, Madhouse didn't do jack shit other than having it's name plastered on the show as the studio. All the good stuff everyone saw in OPM was the work of the best freelancers and young but extremely talented webgen animators brought together by webgen turned director with connections all over the industry Natsume Shingo who himself is freelance. It's only my opinion, but Genos is a far more interesting character than any Dragon Ball character ever was.

Another misconception is about OPM's budget which was nothing but average. It was the work of those passionate freelance animators wanting to express the simple story in the most interesting and entertaining way possible that made OPM a super success. Madhouse and the budget had little to do with its success.
I guess anyone here in this thread should watch this video, i think it is one of the finest review out there, pointing out what is wrong and what is right in Super. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ffdeJ77Bo&t=1546s

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Yomi
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Re: Does anyone else think Super is awful?

Post by Yomi » Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:24 pm

Shuby wrote: I guess anyone here in this thread should watch this video, i think it is one of the finest review out there, pointing out what is wrong and what is right in Super. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ffdeJ77Bo&t=1546s
I've seen this video 1000 times. It's been suggested on Kanzenshuu a million times, and he's just another youtuber with an opinion.
:clap:

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Re: Does anyone else think Super is awful?

Post by Shuby » Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:26 pm

Yomi wrote:
perucho1990 wrote: 100% disagree with this, DBZ was never Hunter x Hunter or JJBA in that aspect, DB was always filled with Cliches and Togashi and Hirohiko was the men that led certain mangakas to void the typical Shounen cliches.

If u want a series that doesnt have much Shounen cliches, then check Boku no Hero Academia, One Punch Man, Mob Psycho 100.
DBZ invented the "cliches" so it isn't really at fault. As for these other shows, like HxH specifically, what has it done differently?
What makes it so ground breaking? Kite dies and Gon gets an ass-pull powerup. People love to give so much credence to these shows,
but if it was animated like Dragon Ball, would anyone really like it? Would all these qualities shine? Where was the bandwagon for HxH
back in 1999 when it was animated poorly? Wouldn't all of its groundbreaking writing and interesting concepts be able to shine on its own?

Can One Punch Man survive without Madhouse? What would the draw be to these shows if they didn't have seasonal budgets?
I'm not saying they're bad, I just don't find them as amazing and well written as everyone seems to think they are. It's just
eye candy, and people make their justifications for it after the fact.

I see the same thing happening in the American animation fandom, there are elites who hate the same 10 shows but they're
madly in love with Steven Universe, and My Little Pony, and Adventure Time, with little to no contention.
It was wel established how Gon got it,how it was possible for Gon to get those powers, and besides if you receive something big and you lose something big, that is the philosophy in HXH, Gon cannot use Nen anymore... meanwhile future Trunks.... yeah so be quiet.

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Re: Does anyone else think Super is awful?

Post by ArchedThunder » Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:27 pm

Yomi wrote:
Shuby wrote: I guess anyone here in this thread should watch this video, i think it is one of the finest review out there, pointing out what is wrong and what is right in Super. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ffdeJ77Bo&t=1546s
I've seen this video 1000 times. It's been suggested on Kanzenshuu a million times, and he's just another youtuber with an opinion.
I think Shuby has posted the video multiple times and has never gotten a positive response, lol.

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