Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 9 - Official Discussion Thread

[VegettoEX]

Okay but seriously, was Majin Kuu designed by Toriyama or somebody else did it?

This is the same Toriyama who gave us horrible designs like Zeno, Cabba and Califula.
His designs became hit-or-miss a decade ago.

This reads bizarrely to me. It's not like Toriyama had a 100% win streak with character designs from the start, or even in any given arbitrary era.

Some of the main characters in Dragon Ball are literally just the same character designs from Dr. Slump (Yamcha is Tsukutsun, the Turtle Hermit is God...). Some of his one-shot character designs are literally just those recycled again (see: Sonchoh, which adds in Bulma). He did the Xenomorph at least four different times...?

And the stuff for ancillary products? Ozotto is hilarious in retrospect, but that design? Some of his Dragon Quest boss designs? They're Ozotto rejects!

(I say this as someone who adores his designs, and thinks that a bad Toriyama design beats the snot out of most other designs any day of the week!)

I think a lot of people, perhaps yourself included, don't have (or are unwilling to entertain?) the perspective that nostalgia and accepted knowledge/familiarity has tinted your viewpoint on the past. I'd be willing to bet that if certain folks weren't a certain age when they saw certain characters in the Z-era, they'd have a strong negative reaction to it.

For example, Freeza looks terrible here on first reveal. He's a little cross-eyed, his mouth has a strange movement to it... I don't actually think the almost goofiness of him contrasts with the violence surrounding him that Toriyama actually intended to portray here. I see what he's going for, but the way Freeza's drawn, it doesn't work for me. It dos the opposite. Can you imagine what the reaction in this thread would be if this was completely new?



Don't mistake this for another drive-by "Goku was always stupid" kind of post: I genuinely hope, wish, and ask that some of you (including the individual I'm quoting here) reflect on this a bit:

Can we wait longer than 24 hours before declaring all of Toriyama's character designs shit? Can we learn a little bit more about who designed him in the first place, too? Was it Toriyama? Was it Nakatsuru? Was it by committee? What else does the writer have in store for us with this character? Is it a red herring entirely?

There's thoughtful criticism, and there's being loud/obnoxious/hyperbolic with rage. More of the former, less of the latter.

(And I'm in agreement on the fist-bump discourse. I thought it stood out. In yet another episode were Glorio begrudgingly goes along with a Panzy suggestion earlier in the episode for the 800th time, it stood out.)

[Mr Baggins]

That said, I didn't really like his design. But thinking it's basically a saibaman affected with the cauldron's ingredients makes it make sense.

Same. The Saibamen were always hideous little fuckers, and Kuu isn't much more than "Saibaman but taller". You could probably question why there was a plot decision to make them the basis of this new Boo to begin with, but I think the design itself makes plenty of sense in context.

At first, I didn't care much about it, but reading some opinions, Mr. Baggins makes a fair point about the fist bump. This is a guy (Glorio, not Baggins) that started as standoffish as you can possibly get, at first, not even sharing hotel rooms with the lads to now doing so, he went from letting Goku do all the fighting to jumping in and using his magic to help Goku, even when he knows there's no need for that after seeing what Goku did to T-3.

Correct. Thank you for catching that.

The cracks in Glorio's facade begin to show as early as episode 6 when he gets flustered at Goku, and we've been gradually exposed to a more diverse range of emotions from him as he's traveled with the gang. Now, as you said, he's sharing hotel rooms with them and giving fist bumps. It's a subtle and deliberate transition that I'm not sure a lot of viewers have caught on to yet, though I'm sure it'll make good justification for rewatches.

I imagine he's only going to get friendlier with the group from here, but I honestly have no idea where any of this is going at all. That's part of the excitement.

No offense... but if you'd just write like a normal person, I would've toned down the bluntness in my reply. Like, come on. Obviously, I'm not entitled to be impressed and just saying something doesn't mean it's true. Those were opinions, and you already knew that before ACTUALLY displaying needless dismissal by focusing on the phrasing.

No offense, but that's a pretty baffling statement. Your first reply to me (and first post in general?) had something to the effect of "you're making up points of praise as you go". Me asking you what that meant was a sincere question. I still don't know what that means exactly, but I can't think of anyone who would disagree it sounds pretty rudely dismissive from the jump.

Again, I don't care for having this devolve into some snark war or us arguing about whose tone was meaner or whatever. I'd rather just talk about the show, but your opening reply made it clear to me that you weren't interested in doing that productively.

Like I said in the post you quoted, this is clearly going nowhere. I'd rather just move on from our convo, to be honest.

[SHINOBI-03]

And why the surprise about that? I thought we had already moved past the phase of thinking Toriyama was flawless. Remember, he was the one who designed Golden Freeza (kind of like Majin Kuu), and when it leaked in the movie thread, it caused a huge outrage from the fanbase, until they obviously got used to it, which is what I think will happen with Kuu

This is the same Toriyama who gave us horrible designs like Zeno, Cabba and Califula.
His designs became hit-or-miss a decade ago.

Considering the nature of Daima's production there are times when I ask myself if this thing was done during Toriyama's involvement or after his passing. Like, I'm aware he was heavily involved but was he involved in every step from start to finish or did the creative team needed to take some parts with their own hands and pray it works seamlessly?

[D.R.]

No offense... but if you'd just write like a normal person, I would've toned down the bluntness in my reply. Like, come on. Obviously, I'm not entitled to be impressed and just saying something doesn't mean it's true. Those were opinions, and you already knew that before ACTUALLY displaying needless dismissal by focusing on the phrasing.

No offense, but that's a pretty baffling statement. Your first reply to me (and first post in general?) had something to the effect of "you're making up points of praise as you go". Me asking you what that meant was a sincere question. I still don't know what that means exactly, but I can't think of anyone who would disagree it sounds pretty rudely dismissive from the jump.

Again, I don't care for having this devolve into some snark war or us arguing about whose tone was meaner or whatever. I'd rather just talk about the show, but your opening reply made it clear to me that you weren't interested in doing that productively.

Like I said in the post you quoted, this is clearly going nowhere. I'd rather just move on from our convo, to be honest.

That's not what I said. I asked you, I didn't just start accusing you out of nowhere. It was a way to round up my thoughts on your posts. Your takes just didn't seem believable to me, so I tried to get blunt and honest and see if you were purposefully propping up the series. I apologize if it was rude.

[Hugo Boss]

I genuinely don’t see the issue about what Mr. Baggins liked about this episode. It wasn’t one of the best or really necessary, in my opinion. But it conveyed some intriguing interactions within the main group. It’s almost like Goku is getting fonder of them like a kid when discovering a new “cool” tribe, leaving his old pals in trouble. Their team work was emotionally engaging for me and my wife. It was a nice moment for us who have been watching the series together. She even noted how Vegeta’s movements feel more elegantly than Goku’s, which is something I haven’t noticed before. But I admit I’m particularly more interested in the Tamagami fights and new lore stuff.

[Cipher]

Boldly, braving the jeers and ridicule of my peers: I thought the fist bump was a fun and significant character moment

[JulieYBM]

The fist bump was multiple cuts long, and therefore A Thing to Take Notice Of.

Tragic, I know.

[Cipher]

When my girlfriend, who was watching with me, saw the fist bump and said, "Aw, now they're friends and they're going to be sad when he betrays them!", I said, "Nuh-uh, it's not a big deal!" and we argued back and forth for three hours

[AliTheZombie13]

"Toriyama would've never designed such an abomination!"
Did y'all forget Cell Max is a thing or...?

[JulieYBM]

When my girlfriend, who was watching with me, saw the fist bump and said, "Aw, now they're friends and they're going to be sad when he betrays them!", I said, "Nuh-uh, it's not a big deal!" and we argued back and forth for three hours

Your girlfriend sounds really smart, you should listen to her.

"Toriyama would've never designed such an abomination!"
Did y'all forget Cell Max is a thing or...?

my boyfriend is handsome, actually

[nineko]

Just to know , was Goku always a dirty dog ? Like did he really not take care of his hygiene?

Sorry for the badly cropped screenshot, I'm using my phone right now.

[Yuji]

Just to know , was Goku always a dirty dog ? Like did he really not take care of his hygiene?

Sorry for the badly cropped screenshot, I'm using my phone right now.

Goku is not Tarzan anymore. He's a grown man who's long since adapted to a lot of social norms.

I'm not necessarily opposed to Goku still being more lax on personal hygiene than most people, but being annoyed when called out on it by other people, and repeatedly making it a comedic point, is denigrating to the character. Again, this isn't chapter 1 Goku anymore.

[Ronin]

I agree that there's lot of pointless stuff in this episode, but I still enjoyed it. The only reason why it bothers me some is because the series is supposedly gonna be short. But we'll have to see if some of this will come into play later on, though. One thing I'd like to stop seeing, as has been mentioned, is the repetitiveness of planes getting stolen. We can move on from the plane stealing now lol. How do they keep getting stolen anyway? Don't they have locks on their doors? Don't they need a key to start small planes? If Goku is now strong enough to can beat a Tamagami, do they even need a plane anymore? I guess they're using it to keep a disguise. Why can't they just teleport? Not sure if he can sense their ki, though, or if they even have ki in the Demon Realm. I wish they'd address that.

As for Majin Kuu's design; I think it fell a bit short, but it's not a deal breaker for me. He looks like a mix of Pikkon and Arqua. Buu's first form we saw was a pink fat blob and people (most people?) don't seem to have a problem with that. I wonder what the reaction would be if fat Buu never happened in Z and we saw Kuu have a design similar to that instead. Maybe people still would've liked it, though. Who knows.

Since Majin Kuu is here now, I'm hoping that the pace starts to ramp up and everything gets turned upside down. Similar to what happened in the Buu saga after Super Buu appeared. Maybe Kuu will quickly and easily get the dragon balls and then go after the one Goku got. If Daima really is only 24 episodes long, we're getting close to halfway there. I wanna see things really take off now.

[LoganForkHands73]

I take a peek at these threads whenever I'm too busy to see a new episode straight away, see everyone (except Baggins and a few others) slating the episode as the WORST EPISODE EVER, then I eventually watch it myself and wonder what the hell got everyone so bent out of shape.

Like, I had good fun with this episode, it was fine like most of the others. Vegeta's team not joining Goku's team initially seemed disappointing in a "Buu fell asleep before the tournament even started" kind of way, but Goku daring them to go after King Gomah gives them a specific purpose to be there besides trailing behind the protagonists as back up.

I have to say, Goku forcing his eyes open was the gag might be the funniest gag so far. It occurs to me that Goku might just be the most unreliable adventure protagonist ever, lmao. Nobody should trust him to do anything that doesn't involve fighting. I was half expecting the Dragon Ballsack to have been stolen in the night and swapped with a dummy.

For example, Freeza looks terrible here on first reveal. He's a little cross-eyed, his mouth has a strange movement to it... I don't actually think the almost goofiness of him contrasts with the violence surrounding him that Toriyama actually intended to portray here. I see what he's going for, but the way Freeza's drawn, it doesn't work for me. It dos the opposite. Can you imagine what the reaction in this thread would be if this was completely new?

Is that really the best example of a bad Toriyama design? I really don't see anything wrong with Freeza there, he looks the same as ever to me, and his initial form is easily the second best design of all his transformations, so I don't think it would incur any kind of backlash. Of course, it's impossible to say for certain how classic designs would be received if they debuted today, but if they didn't produce much hate at the time, they probably wouldn't now.

I have to say, I think Majin Kuu is a dud design. I get that having Saibaiman DNA is supposed to make him more obedient, but it's still a bizarre connection to make and the hybrid design and colour scheme just looks... off to me. It feels like there's really something missing to make him look more significant than a Saibaiman with Paikuhan's lips in Kid Buu's MC Hammer pants. I can only anticipate that if he does indeed take after his partial template Majin Buu, he will have a truckload of transformations that hopefully look better than this.

On the other hand, I'm starting to dig Arinsu's character. She reminds me of the "haughty hot femme fatale" archetype popularised by Doronjo from Yattaman.

[YamiGoku]

We are on episode 9 of 20, we are half way into the series and...

Er... do we have an confirmation of this? Cause if not, this is just your assumption, mate. Chill the F out, also like VegettoEX said before we don't know if Kuu will be like this for the rest of the series, he probably will absorb someone and change his form.

I wasnt complaining about Majin Kuu, I was complaining about the waste of time this series is, we got 1 really good episode out of 9, the 7 first episodes are just ok at best but nothing particularly good happens in them, a lot of time wasted in the "adventure" trying to recapture the OG magic but failing just like GT just not as bad, episode 8 was good because we got a good fight but also the character of Temagami 3 was cool, and the plot was moving finally, and then we got episode 9, 90% felt like filler, and for the 59'094943734 time we got ship/plane problems...

the 20 episodes thing was said by Geekdom101. I know a lot of people don't like him and don't believe him and I understand, he was wrong about the anime returning, he sold a lot of smoke during the months prior to the Super hero movie, etc,but when it comes to Daima he has proven he has a legitimate source, he leaked a lot of names and character designs of characters we are knowing for the first time now months ago, and he also said a lot of things that were proven right, you might not like him I understand, but there is too much evidence that this time around he knows what he is talking bout, (unsubstantiated rumor chat removed from post)

[Bardock God of Time]

I know people are complaining about Goku's characterization but I'm just going to assume that character's becoming younger effected their mental a little bit

[AliTheZombie13]

(unsubstantiated rumor chat removed from post)

OK, thanks for spoiling me, I guess. That's not what I got from these past two episodes, at all.
Majin Kuu is hyped up to be this ultimate failsafe that Arinsu is going to use to beat Gomah, good to know he'll amount to...

[StaticMania]

Kuu > Boo

If that's the case, what is Gokuu going to doo?

[Issei189]

Kuu > Boo

If that's the case, what is Gokuu going to doo?

Goku does have that Fusion Bug.

[Ronin]

Kuu > Boo

If that's the case, what is Gokuu going to doo?

Goku does have that Fusion Bug.

I totally forgot about that. If that wasn't obvious foreshadowing, then I don't know what is.

I hope that whoever the the final boss is, that their fight comes down to a good old slugfest like the older fights and not just a new transformation or a fusion that gets the victory.