Daima and its implications for the Battle of the Gods

[Cipher]

This is bullshit. Fucking Bullshit. Goku had this new form all along and he didn't use it against Beerus in Battle of Gods, against Zamasu, or against Jiren? Why didn't he attempt to fuse with Vegeta in Battle of Gods if he knew Vegito could go Super Saiyan 4?

Why didn't Goku show it to Beerus in Battle of Gods on King Kai's planet when showing the Super Saiyan progression or ask if it was the Super Saiyan God form when he got to Bulma's birthday party?

Why didn't Vegeta use Super Saiyan 3 during the "my Bulma" moment in Battle of Gods or when Future Trunks asked him to go Super Saiyan 3?

Why hasn't Goku attempted to combine God/Blue or Ultra Instinct with it?!

PLOTHOLE.

On first read I thought this was a parody of the type of post it sincerely seems to be.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I fully expect Gokuu to just use Super Saiyan 4 again in some future project and either not have it mentioned or just have a brief throwaway line about it.

That's actually what happened with SsjG in the anime. He just stopped using it for 3 arcs (Resurrection F, U6 Tournament, and Zamasu), only to start using it again out of nowhere in the Tournament of Power. We know why he did out of universe (Toyotaro using it in the manga at the time), but it made no sense from an in-universe storytelling point of view. The same thing happened with Vegeta in the Broly movie, he just had SsjG it seems, despite not using once prior.

[super michael]

In BoG Goku was showing every transformation that he had, Goku didn't have anything stronger than SSJ3. Beerus wanted to fight Goku at his strongest form, he didn't want to fight Goku at anything less than his strongest form.

SSJ4 is a huge power increase compared to SSJ3. If we use GT as an example, SSJ3 Goku couldn't damage Bebi Vegeta final form and lost to him very easy. SSJ4 Goku on the other hand was able to tank everything that Bebi Vegeta Final form used and could kill him easy, but didn't since he didn't want to kill Vegeta body. Goku knew Vegeta limits better than Bebi.

Bebi Vegeta Final Form couldn't do anything to Super Oozaru Goku, therefore even Super Oozaru is a huge power up from SSJ3.


SSJ1 - SSJ3 Goku vs Bebi Vegeta = Bebi Vegeta wins
Super Oozaru Goku vs Bebi Vegeta = Goku win
SSJ4 Goku vs Bebi Vegeta = Goku win
SSJ4 Goku vs Super Oozaru Bebi Vegeta = Goku win

If Bebi Vegeta could turn SSJ4, then Goku would lose since the power difference is huge between Super Oozaru and SSJ4. When Goku and Bebi Vegeta are on the same level, Goku would lose.

[JulieYBM]

I fully expect Gokuu to just use Super Saiyan 4 again in some future project and either not have it mentioned or just have a brief throwaway line about it.

That's actually what happened with SsjG in the anime. He just stopped using it for 3 arcs (Resurrection F, U6 Tournament, and Zamasu), only to start using it again out of nowhere in the Tournament of Power. We know why he did out of universe (Toyotaro using it in the manga at the time), but it made no sense from an in-universe storytelling point of view. The same thing happened with Vegeta in the Broly movie, he just had SsjG it seems, despite not using once prior.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was basing my post on. It's like nobody thought to ask, "Hey, can Gokuu still use God?" in an email to Toriyama. That or Toriyama changed his mind and the production crew was like, "Well, fuck it, I guess." The same thing with Vegeta not using Super Saiyan God until Movie #20, which I thought was weird. Hell, I don't think Vegeta ever used Super Saiyan God in Super Dragon Ball Heroes, either? It's like it was illegal for Yamamuro to design Super Saiyan God Vegeta lol.

This is why I would have just had Gokuu and Vegeta use Super Saiyan God in the Golden Freeza arc if they wanted to do this, "Keep all the transformations" bullshit instead of folding all of them except Blue into base form like they should have made officially clear during the Golden Freeza arc.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Hell, I don't think Vegeta ever used Super Saiyan God in Super Dragon Ball Heroes, either? It's like it was illegal for Yamamuro to design Super Saiyan God Vegeta lol.

Here's something interesting about Heroes: content from both the Broly and Superhero movies were off limits to the crew of that anime for whatever reason. Whenever they wanted to use Broly, they had to use Z's version. Gohan and Piccolo were not allowed to have their forms from Superhero.

This is why I would have just had Gokuu and Vegeta use Super Saiyan God in the Golden Freeza arc if they wanted to do this, "Keep all the transformations" bullshit instead of folding all of them except Blue into base form like they should have made officially clear during the Golden Freeza arc.

SsjG should've been the primary form they used until UI and UE were introduced. Blue is a redundant form in every way possible.

[JulieYBM]

Hell, I don't think Vegeta ever used Super Saiyan God in Super Dragon Ball Heroes, either? It's like it was illegal for Yamamuro to design Super Saiyan God Vegeta lol.

Here's something interesting about Heroes: content from both the Broly and Superhero movies were off limits to the crew of that anime for whatever reason. Whenever they wanted to use Broly, they had to use Z's version. Gohan and Piccolo were not allowed to have their forms from Superhero.

This is why I would have just had Gokuu and Vegeta use Super Saiyan God in the Golden Freeza arc if they wanted to do this, "Keep all the transformations" bullshit instead of folding all of them except Blue into base form like they should have made officially clear during the Golden Freeza arc.

SsjG should've been the primary form they used until UI and UE were introduced. Blue is a redundant form in every way possible.

Blue has the recognizable Super Saiyan hair for Gokuu, can be both 'God' and 'Super Saiyan with the power of God' and means we can call Gokuu and Vegeta 'blue hair with pronouns'. It's the superior form in all the most important categories.

The three main food groups, even!

[BernardoCairo]

Super Saiyajin God is way better than Blue in every aspect, to be honest. It looks more unique and has a richer lore attached to it. I also love how Goku adopts a different fighting style while using it in the Broly movie.

That said, we have to remember that Super Saiyajin 4 wouldn’t have made any difference in Battle of Gods in terms of power scaling. Beerus specifically wanted to fight Super Saiyajin God, and that was it. Super Saiyajin 4 might be insanely powerful compared to 3, but it still wasn’t what Beerus was looking for and wouldn’t have satisfied him.

[Peach]

Super Saiyajin God is way better than Blue in every aspect, to be honest. It looks more unique and has a richer lore attached to it. I also love how Goku adopts a different fighting style while using it in the Broly movie.

That said, we have to remember that Super Saiyajin 4 wouldn’t have made any difference in Battle of Gods in terms of power scaling. Beerus specifically wanted to fight Super Saiyajin God, and that was it. Super Saiyajin 4 might be insanely powerful compared to 3, but it still wasn’t what Beerus was looking for and wouldn’t have satisfied him.

I agree. It looks elegant. It reminds me of Kaioken too. Super Saiyan Blue looks like a tacky recolor. The blue just looks tacky.

I love the way Super Saiyan 4 looks here. The hair color reminds me of Super Saiyan God, but the form itself is more distinct and unique than God. From a visual standpoint, I hope they pursue this over Super Saiyan Blue in the future.

Although, I'd prefer if they moved away from forms and transformations altogether. I liked in the Frieza movie that they were just improving their base strength that had absorbed some of the divine ki from the ritual. And they had hardly been fighting in their bases for decades that it was a welcomed change. If they don't go back to that, 4 with divine ki would be the way to go.

Maybe there already is a hidden connection to 4 and God with them having the same hair color and gentle features in the face?

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Super Saiyan Blue looks like a tacky recolor. The blue just looks tacky.

What makes it look even worse is Goku and Vegeta going back to their old outfits, especially Vegeta with all that Blue. There 0 balance of colors.

[JulieYBM]

Super Saiyan Blue is mostly used in the Dragon Ball Super television series, where all the colors look like dogshit. Super Saiyan Blue looks great in Movie #20.

[super michael]

Super Saiyan Blue looks like a tacky recolor. The blue just looks tacky.

What makes it look even worse is Goku and Vegeta going back to their old outfits, especially Vegeta with all that Blue. There 0 balance of colors.

Here is another thing bad, in DBS Goku and Vegeta are wearing different clothes, yet Vegito looks identical to their Boo Saga version.
In DBS Super Hero Gotenks has purple and black hair, even though one has blue hair while the other has black hair.

Super Saiyan Blue is mostly used in the Dragon Ball Super television series, where all the colors look like dogshit. Super Saiyan Blue looks great in Movie #20.

True the visuals did look great in DBS Broly movie.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Super Saiyan Blue is mostly used in the Dragon Ball Super television series, where all the colors look like dogshit. Super Saiyan Blue looks great in Movie #20.

I wouldn't mind it as much if they kept their Resurrection F outfits. Goku switched to an all orange Gi and Vegeta had an all grey suit. I have no idea why they switched back to their old outfits. The RF outfits would've given Super a more separate identity, rather than it being Z 2.0.

[BernardoCairo]

Well, it's important to remember that they changed Vegeta's armor in Dragon Ball Super Broly to a darker color. In some scenes, it almost looks black. That really does wonders for both his Super Saiyajin God and Blue forms in that movie.

[JulieYBM]

Super Saiyan Blue is mostly used in the Dragon Ball Super television series, where all the colors look like dogshit. Super Saiyan Blue looks great in Movie #20.

I wouldn't mind it as much if they kept their Resurrection F outfits. Goku switched to an all orange Gi and Vegeta had an all grey suit. I have no idea why they switched back to their old outfits. The RF outfits would've given Super a more separate identity, rather than it being Z 2.0.

Bandai wanted to sell merchandise and the production committee partners probably agreed that the most recognizable outfits were those older outfits.

It's the same reason why those scurvy bastards didn't let us have Gokuu and Vegeta keep their beards.

[Peach]

Super Saiyan Blue looks like a tacky recolor. The blue just looks tacky.

What makes it look even worse is Goku and Vegeta going back to their old outfits, especially Vegeta with all that Blue. There 0 balance of colors.

You have a point about the outfits. The Resurrection F outfits looked better with the blue hair. The muted greenish/grey hue on Vegeta's under armor.

Still, I think blue hair in general is kind of tacky looking.

[ZombieVito]

Only way the continuity makes sense now is if Neva erases their memories lmao.

[BernardoCairo]

Yep. Vegeta can use Super Saiyajin 3 pretty well and Goku can turn Super Saiyajin 4 at will.
We'll see what happens next episode.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Only way the continuity makes sense now is if Neva erases their memories lmao.

Without going into spoilers; I think modern DB will continue from wherever Daima leaves us next week, as oppose to trying to tie it into Battle of Gods and Super. I think the rights issue going on may be too far from being resolved, so the powers at be in charge of the anime have decided to do their own thing instead of continuing Super.

Vegeta can use Super Saiyajin 3 pretty well and Goku can turn Super Saiyajin 4 at will.

Spoiler:

I don't see how you can tie this into Super at this point. We assumed that Goku's Ssj4 was a one time thing, but that's clearly not the case. This is clearly his main form now, as is Ssj3 (finally) for Vegeta. I just wish the writing was stronger because the show has really relied on these two transformations to carry it.

[Yuji]

I'm sure they can add a line that Goku can no longer go SS4 without Neva's magic/outside the demon realm, but if they fuse into Gogeta next episode as a final GT nod, that's the final nail.

[JulieYBM]

I'm expecting them to just not address why Gokuu did not use Super Saiyan 4 during the Beers, Golden Freeza, Universe 6, Zamasu and Tournament of Power, and Broli conflicts, but he'll use it against Black Freeza or whoever the next foe he faces is.