Background Information on Coola and Tullece's Henchmen

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Post by Dayspring » Sun May 03, 2009 9:09 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Senzu_Bean wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:The Kaiô-ken seems to only appear when its in the higher levels. Son could be using lower levels of the technique and it just doesn't appear.
:? Kaioken is always visible.
I fail to recall it being visibile when Son was duking it out with Freeza.
The aura was all around him when he used x10 (Freeza didn't use his arms) and again at x20 (the kamehameha that burned Freeza's hand).

@Prof: I guess you'd call them movie-canon PLs. These weren't given by Toriyama, so it's up to you. It does give us a realistic idea though; Goku had a PL of 3 million. Tack on Freeza zenkai and 3 years of training, and movie 5 assumes Goku's new PL is about 10 million. A 7 million boost in that amount of time (+zenkai) is pretty plausible.

This also makes Cell's PL over 1.5 billion. Just thought I'd (fanwank) point this out. :P
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Post by Saiyan-Professor » Sun May 03, 2009 10:58 pm

Dayspring wrote:...@Prof: I guess you'd call them movie-canon PLs. These weren't given by Toriyama, so it's up to you. It does give us a realistic idea though; Goku had a PL of 3 million. Tack on Freeza zenkai and 3 years of training, and movie 5 assumes Goku's new PL is about 10 million. A 7 million boost in that amount of time (+zenkai) is pretty plausible.

This also makes Cell's PL over 1.5 billion. Just thought I'd (fanwank) point this out. :P
Yet, since the Daizenshuu posits the events of a modified Movie #5 in the timeline, we could still use those PLs, right? In addition, what would you imagine Vegeta’s combat power was after he attained Super Saiyan? According to the manga and anime, he was said to be stronger than Kakarrot at that time.
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Post by Onikage725 » Sun May 03, 2009 11:10 pm

Howwwwww do these PL's work?

Goku didn't use Kaio-ken against Coola until after transformation, making 140 mil basically ridiculous. And if Sauza was a bit above Cpt. Ginyu, how did Piccolo (who could tangle with form 2 Freeza on even footing, and had time to improve slightly since then) not take him out in 5 seconds flat. Dore and Neizu, their levels make sense :p
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Post by Olivier Hague » Mon May 04, 2009 12:31 am

Saiyan-Professor wrote:since the Daizenshuu posits the events of a modified Movie #5 in the timeline
Nah. That timeline comes from a Daizenshû volume that deals with both the manga and the anime, and it includes some stuff from the anime filler and the movies. That is all.
Nobody said that if something was included in that timeline, it was "canon", and the timeline didn't "modify" the events of the movie so it would fit either.

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Post by Dayspring » Mon May 04, 2009 9:51 am

Olivier Hague wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:since the Daizenshuu posits the events of a modified Movie #5 in the timeline
Nah. That timeline comes from a Daizenshû volume that deals with both the manga and the anime, and it includes some stuff from the anime filler and the movies. That is all.
Nobody said that if something was included in that timeline, it was "canon", and the timeline didn't "modify" the events of the movie so it would fit either.
It took elements f the OVA, DBZ movie 1 and DBZ movie 5 as well. Not everything, though, which is why Prof said "modified." For example: the flashback scenes of the OVA involving Raichi and hatchyakku leaving space are part of the timeline. This does not, however, mean that hatchyakku activated and tuned him into a ghost monster/whatever-the-hell-he-was, just that his corpse and the deactivated machine are on another planet somewhere. For movie 1, it mentions simply that Garlic Jr kidnapped Gohan and that Goku defeated him, not that he teamed with Piccolo, met Bulma and co, etc. Meanwhile for movie 5, it says that in the three-year gap, Cooler shows up and gets defeated.

@Prof, in light of what Onikage mentioned after your post, I say no. I remembered Goku beating up Cooler as being when he used kaioken x20. If he was using no kaioken, this makes no sense. Goku got the drop on 50% Freeza by becoming half as strong when Freeza was underestimating him. This surprise isn't plausible, as Cooler is a more serious and stronger opponent.
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Post by Olivier Hague » Mon May 04, 2009 10:47 am

Dayspring wrote:It took elements f the OVA, DBZ movie 1 and DBZ movie 5 as well. Not everything, though, which is why Prof said "modified."
Er... Going by that logic, you could also say it "modified" the events of the manga. Of course there's not everything.

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Post by Saiyan-Professor » Mon May 04, 2009 11:03 am

Olivier Hague wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:since the Daizenshuu posits the events of a modified Movie #5 in the timeline
Nah. That timeline comes from a Daizenshû volume that deals with both the manga and the anime, and it includes some stuff from the anime filler and the movies. That is all.
Nobody said that if something was included in that timeline, it was "canon", and the timeline didn't "modify" the events of the movie so it would fit either.
Not everyone holds the manga as the sole canon; I for instance hold the Daizenshuu and GT Perfect Files timeline as my canon timeline. To me it makes Dragonball more interesting and extended; personally, the manga is just too short for an epic series like Dragonball. A real good podcast episode addressed the whole canon argument.
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Post by Kaboom » Mon May 04, 2009 11:43 am

Onikage725 wrote:Howwwwww do these PL's work?

Goku didn't use Kaio-ken against Coola until after transformation, making 140 mil basically ridiculous. And if Sauza was a bit above Cpt. Ginyu, how did Piccolo (who could tangle with form 2 Freeza on even footing, and had time to improve slightly since then) not take him out in 5 seconds flat. Dore and Neizu, their levels make sense :p
I'm with you here. The henchmen's powers kinda work, because Piccolo WAS toying with them. But for Cooler himself... naw, man. I don't buy it. Too many other things conflict with how strong folks should more logically be.
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Post by The Tori-bot » Mon May 04, 2009 12:55 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:personally, the manga is just too short for an epic series like Dragonball.
How does this make sense? How?

The manga is Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball is an "epic series". Had it been longer or shorter, it would still be an "epic series". And it's 42 volumes, for cryin' out textually. If it were, say, 58 volumes, I probably wouldn't even bother with it. I think it even runs on a little long as it is.
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Post by Wojak » Mon May 04, 2009 4:54 pm

Quality before quantity, Saiyan-Professor.

I don't need any extra information, the story is as built up and extended as it can be, for me, that is.
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Post by Onikage725 » Mon May 04, 2009 4:58 pm

Like I said earlier, I think 140 mil would be a workable "unseen" maximum for 4th form Coola. Going by his performance in the movie, I'd speculate that, like his brother, his baseline in his fourth form is quite low (like how Freeza debuted at 3 mil before powering to 50% of his max). Coola could have been in the a non-flaunting low million range, and when Goku went all over him he opted just to go for broke rather than test Goku in increments. His whole thing was that his brother was soft and screwed around too much when he should have just cut to the chase and wiped out all threats right away. He's far less likely to toy with a foe, based on that profile.
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Post by Herms » Tue May 05, 2009 8:52 am

DNA wrote:So there's no interesting little tidbits about Zarbon & Dodoria, Ginew Tokusentai, Slug's henchmen or Bojack & Friends. What a pity :(
Well, these are just what I've found so far. Right now I'm wondering if the anime comics version of the DBZ movies 3 and 5 mentioned this background info for the henchmen, and whether the anime comics for the other movies would have any more information on other movie characters.
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Re: Background Information on Coola and Tullece's Henchmen

Post by Kirby456 » Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:05 am

Herms wrote:On last week’s podcast, DaemonCorps asked if any additional background information on the characters had been released after the end of the series, and in response Mike mentioned the tidbit about Sauzer’s mad language skills from Daizenshuu 7 that I wrote about in the Tales from the Daizenshuu thread. On that thread, Olivier Hague had said that this piece of information had originally appeared in an issue of Weekly Jump that had come out before DBZ movie 5 premiered, which had contained a lot of extra background information on Coola and his Armored Squad that didn’t appear in the movie. This intrigued me, but I never got around to looking into it until the podcast reminded me of the whole thing.

So I looked at the Japanese Wikipedia entry for DBZ movie 5, and there in its section on the movie’s enemy characters it also mentions that issue of Weekly Jump that included background information on the Armored Squad members, and includes this information in its bios of each of them. So I translated all this extra information:

Sauzer is from Planet Coola No.98 (formally Planet Brench). His home planet had very high gravity, which is why he has a small body, but also makes him very fast and agile on other planets. He is so intelligent that he is capable of speaking 7,000 languages (this was the bit that was mentioned in Daizenshuu 7). He competed with Ginyu to be leader of the Armored Squad (Olivier Hague mentioned this bit in the Tales from the Daizenshuu thread), and is one of the few people who know’s Ginyu’s true form. He is from the same solar system as Jheese, which has two suns. His name comes from Thousand Island salad dressing, and his home planet of Brench is named for French dressing.

Neiz is from Planet Coola No.6 (formally Planet Zalt). His home planet is nothing but water, and his race evolved from a species of amphibians (how can you have amphibians on a planet that’s nothing but water?!). His name comes from mayonnaise, and his home planet is named for salt.

Dore is from Planet Coola No.256 (formally Planet Beppa). Because the continents of his home planet are surrounded by lava, he has an extremely tough body. He used that physique to become a wrestler in the Galactic Pro Wrestling League (…). He was undefeated in 300 matches, but he killed all of his opponents during the match. He has a blood-thirsty personality. He is named for dressing, and his home planet is named for pepper.

There’s not much additional information on Coola, but Weekly Jump explained Coola’s lack of lower forms like Freeza had by saying that Coola could fully control his power in his fourth form, so he didn’t need to have lower forms that lowered his power.

The background information on the characters also included their battle powers. Sauzer’s battle power is 170,000, Neiz’s is 163,000, and Dore is 185,000. Coola’s battle power was given in an issue of V-Jump; in his normal form it’s 140,000,000 and after transforming it is 470,000,000.
awesome!!!! man this guide is awesome plus cool and has tons of new info!!

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Re: Background Information on Coola and Tullece's Henchmen

Post by Kingdom Heartless » Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:20 am

I'm not sure how I feel about those power levels, considering they gave Piccolo even the slightest bit of trouble, and Piccolo's power was around a million, considering he was able to take on Freeza.
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