Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[JazzMazz]

We finally get a great Tate episode, something I wouldn't say we've gotten since #56, #47 if I'm being picky, and we use the opportunity to call his work stagnant even though he just delivered the best episode of the tournament arc thus far(even better than episode 80). I can agree with criticism, hell I have some myself, namely the fact that Goku's clothes look too baggy in some longshots, but I can let those slide if the episode itself was beautiful otherwise or if the scene itself was well executed, which it was exceedingly so.

I fail to see why there has been such a harch reception towards an episode that was actually fantastic.

There hasn't been a major backlash on the episode itself, only towards those claiming it's some of the best we've seen on the show.

I wonder what I can't see in this cut that everyone else has? It has impact, I'll give it that, but on the whole, it just felt flat and redundant for one of the best animators on this show. This is the last I'm saying on the subject, but I want to reiterate that I'm genuinely baffled at those who call this his best work on Super when he's contributed to cuts like these, and even his recent conservative work has more interesting angles, more flavor than the one from this latest episode.

I agree this isn't his best work on the series, I still think his work on #26 was better, though I do feel like it was done better than his work on #79. The reason being that the latter of which has a better sense of timing and far more personality in it's movements than his cut from #79. Just compare how Basil smashes Buu's head with multiple kicks, to how 17 punches Goku into the clouds, their is simply far more going on.
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]
Also I think people are forgetting about Tate's other noteable cut from the episode.
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

However, I remember back in episode 11 that his art was fine and he could draw on model (but still I don't know how heavily thst episode was corrected)

All this time I learned that if a cut from tate is good art wise it's because is corrected, he can't make something worthwhile by himself and he doesn't even try because it's not his style, and time and blah blah blah

Thats disingenuous to say the least. Thats like saying Shimanuki can't produce anything worthwhile because his key animation is awful most of the time, or that Futoshi Highashide is nothing special because his works only great when it's corrected. It's an underhanded thing to say.

[Gashif Aldi]

Can anyone post his cut in RoF? Where Frieza transforms in to his Golden form ended up killing his own army.

[iAnimationLover_]

I said my guess was Ishikawa, he did some 2nd KA on this episode.

My bad, i didnt catch that

However, I remember back in episode 11 that his art was fine and he could draw on model (but still I don't know how heavily thst episode was corrected)

All this time I learned that if a cut from tate is good art wise it's because is corrected, he can't make something worthwhile by himself and he doesn't even try because it's not his style, and time and blah blah blah

"Doesnt even try"

Oh god not this again..

You do realize you could just say something like "His style is not my appealing to my taste" instead of "He cant make something worthwhole by himself and doesnt even try" as if hes a child, right? And stop speaking as if animation is just "Draw draw draw, BAAM, good animation." it goes through mutliple stages and re-drawings. You say it as if animation is an easy thing to do, which it isnt.
Tate has clearly shown good art in super, its just that you go with the mindset of "Oh, Tate drew this.. so it MUST be bad."

And again, off-model does not mean bad art.

[Sodhi]

Also I think people are forgetting about Tate's other noteable cut from the episode.
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

That's apparently not Tate. Rather a cut corrected by Tate.

[ArchedThunder]

So Ajay said that Yong-ce Tu confirmed what scenes he did, anybody know what scenes they were?

[Ajay]

Episodes 85 and 86:

[spoiler]


Notable cuts:
Yong-ce Tu confirmed this to be Atsushi Nikaido's work

This is actually very likely Miuma Kenji's work, just corrected by Tate:

And finally, this is of course Naoki Tate's work:

[/spoiler]

-

To address a few things over the past few pages:

- Please do actually listen to folks like ogkftg. He does talk to Takahashi in DMs - this isn't just Google Translated assumptions pulled from his Twitter. Takahashi appears to be incredibly busy on other shows, so please don't expect him on Super anytime soon. It's great to be optimistic, but remember to keep your hopes in check when information comes in. Sketches are sketches - they don't mean much. Chengxi Huang of Naruto fame drew some Dragon Ball, but that doesn't mean he's going to be on the series at any point. Animators are fans like any other, sometimes they just like to draw characters from shows they like.

- We've had a lot of issues with the episode discussion threads being packed full of comments that are nothing but thinly veiled antagonistic remarks, or from people not actually interested in having a conversation. That's not really in the spirit of the community. We aren't quite there this week in this thread, but there are definitely one or two comments in here teetering on the edge. This applies to any episode and any animator. Jokes are all good fun (see: my signature), but do keep in mind these are real people and not Pokémon, so a degree of respect when speaking sincerely is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[ekrolo2]

I'm gonna assume the problem of no one being able to draw Piccolo well is due to the character design? More so than anybody else, he seems to be the guy they can't seem to nail most of the time he shows up.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

I'm gonna assume the problem of no one being able to draw Piccolo well is due to the character design? More so than anybody else, he seems to be the guy they can't seem to nail most of the time he shows up.

What does "well" exactly mean here? Cause I have never seen Piccolo not drawn "well" (as far as not matching the character design sheets). Unless you mean "why haven't they nail this particular style of Piccolo that I like?".

[ArchedThunder]

Assuming Yong-Ce Tu's section started about here
[spoiler][/spoiler]
And ended with the explosion from the fist clash, it honestly doesn't look like Tate corrected all that much in terms of character art, there's a few shots of 17 and that's about it. There is however a heavy Tsuji correction right after Goku finishes his Kamehameha.
I quite like his art.

[ekrolo2]

I'm gonna assume the problem of no one being able to draw Piccolo well is due to the character design? More so than anybody else, he seems to be the guy they can't seem to nail most of the time he shows up.

What does "well" exactly mean here? Cause I havr never seen Piccolo not drawn "well" (as far as not matching the character design sheets). Unless you mean "why hasn't they nail this particular style of Piccolo I like?".

His ears always look like they're too far apart from his face, his brows are especially thick now and I swear they've moved his antenna up to almost the top of his head instead of being closer to his face.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I'm gonna assume the problem of no one being able to draw Piccolo well is due to the character design? More so than anybody else, he seems to be the guy they can't seem to nail most of the time he shows up.

What does "well" exactly mean here? Cause I havr never seen Piccolo not drawn "well" (as far as not matching the character design sheets). Unless you mean "why hasn't they nail this particular style of Piccolo I like?".

His ears always look like they're too far apart from his face, his brows are especially thick now and I swear they've moved his antenna up to almost the top of his head instead of being closer to his face.

Somewhere in this thread I remember someone broke down why Piccolo's design by Yamamuro was bad and I remember they mentioned something about the antenna's yeah, I do agree watching the latest dub episode of Super, #14, Piccolo looks pretty horrible there, it really stuck out.

[cuartas]

Thats disingenuous to say the least. Thats like saying Shimanuki can't produce anything worthwhile because his key animation is awful most of the time, or that Futoshi Highashide is nothing special because his works only great when it's corrected. It's an underhanded thing to say.

I'd agree with you (me being stupid and ignorant) if it weren't because tate is the most praised "genius, innovator, the best of the best of all the best of the bestest of DBS" in this thread, I see how you keep hyping every single episode where he participates, etc, and I still can't see this impressive job from that genius, yes, it can be the holy grail of animation from a technical standpoint, but it's not impressive, it doesn't have any wow factor to say the least.
On the other hand, he ends up being the most controversial; why isn't kitano, yashima the most controversial huh? because people expect from tate delivering something worth his fame, the hopes are high for someone that gets that attention.
Now that you mention higashide, he can be corrected all the time, but he's working practically in all the episodes and bringing stuff that seems harder to make, angles, poses, and it's good (I've never seen someone criticising his work), not 100% of his stuff is impressive at all, but considering the factors here.... do you get my point? I'm sure you don't.

On the other Hand:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Do you remember how the people here was bashing yamamuro because he uses the same pose in the kamehameha? welp seems like people stay quiet when we see the same flying/falling/stand positions from other guys.

I don't expect to win in tate's fields, wasn't never my intention, I'm giving my opinion as everyone else

[Noah]

His ears always look like they're too far apart from his face, his brows are especially thick now and I swear they've moved his antenna up to almost the top of his head instead of being closer to his face.

Piccolo should kept this design from early DB, it was the best for him, it made him look vastly different from the others.

[The gr]

do everyone want yamamouro replaced as a character designer, and who would you prefer as a character designer instead of tadayoshi.

[Lord Beerus]

do everyone want yamamouro replaced as a character designer, and who would you prefer as a character designer instead of tadayoshi

Naotoshi Shida.

[Sodhi]

Honestly Mr. Toriyama himself will be my favorite choice. His designs are so animator friendly these days.

[kinisking]

do everyone want yamamouro replaced as a character designer, and who would you prefer as a character designer instead of tadayoshi

Naotoshi Shida.

I don't know if he would be a good character designer for an anime. They'd look good, but I'm pretty sure they're way too detailed and wouldn't be very animation friendly.

[The gr]

Honestly Mr. Toriyama himself will be my favorite choice. His designs are so animator friendly these days.

I think toriyama design don't look so good when you animate them, Have you seen botamo and hit design,is would look better if you adapted to a manga

do everyone want yamamouro replaced as a character designer, and who would you prefer as a character designer instead of tadayoshi

Naotoshi Shida.

I don't know his style is not animation friendly and is too detailed

[Jinzoningen MULE]

do everyone want yamamouro replaced as a character designer, and who would you prefer as a character designer instead of tadayoshi.

off topic,I noticed how fun it is to talk about this series production and animators,is such a relief

We've probably had this conversation more times than we should have, but I never had a solid opinion on the matter before. As of now, I'd 100% choose Manabe, I just love everything about that man's drawings. My second choice would be Shimanuki, then Shida, then Tate, then Karasawa.

Honestly Mr. Toriyama himself will be my favorite choice. His designs are so animator friendly these days.

I'd certainly like the designs to be based off of his, but I doubt he has the know-how to provide consistently animation-friendly designs.

[Lord Beerus]

do everyone want yamamouro replaced as a character designer, and who would you prefer as a character designer instead of tadayoshi

Naotoshi Shida.

I don't know if he would be a good character designer for an anime. They'd look good, but I'm pretty sure they're way too detailed and wouldn't be very animation friendly.

With the right amount of planning and animators, it can certainly work.