Is Kai Moving Along Too Fast?

Post by **Herms** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:12 pm

Bussani wrote:I don't think we're meant to talk about ways to watch the show here on the forum.

We're not supposed to talk about ways to download it, but I think talking about ways to view it as it airs on TV is OK.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:18 pm

This weeks pacing, I feel, was absolutely perfect. It was an entertaining episode that didn't feel like it was rush and really got the rest of the arc set up. I'm looking forward to seeing how the rest of the episodes pan out, but I will say I hope they get the director of this episode to do more episodes in the future.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:21 pm

JulieYBM wrote:This weeks pacing, I feel, was absolutely perfect. It was an entertaining episode that didn't feel like it was rush and really got the rest of the arc set up. I'm looking forward to seeing how the rest of the episodes pan out, but I will say I hope they get the director of this episode to do more episodes in the future.

I figure that since there's so much filler in the training itself, they can keep most of all of the canon stuff at a pace like what we saw this week and it'll still breeze by compared to DBZ.

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:22 am

This week's pacing was cruising, even though we only got through two manga chapters. They spared no time by getting Goku running on Snake way, and Gohan even learned he possessed hidden powers. How many DBZ episodes was that? 2 or 3?

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:03 am

Forgotten Hero wrote:This week's pacing was cruising, even though we only got through two manga chapters. They spared no time by getting Goku running on Snake way, and Gohan even learned he possessed hidden powers. How many DBZ episodes was that? 2 or 3?

Looks like Kai episode 4 used material mostly from DBZ episodes 6 and 7.

Next week's Kai (episode 5), based on the previews, looks like it'll use material from episodes 7 and 8.

After that, if they're cutting out the majority of the filler, they're going to be removing most of the stuff from episodes 9-18 (the dinosaur, Mr. Robot, Arlia, Goku in Hell, Princess Snake, Gohan escaping from and returning to training, Gohan's second transformation, and the Pendulum Room).

Wasted Wisher said not too long ago that Goku was beating up on Nappa in episode 12. So it would make sense to cut a lot of that out. They'll probably also do something similar to the fight with Raditz where they'll make everything super-action-packed with the Saiyan battle. Just out of a wild guess, I'd say training would be about 3 to 5 episodes and the battle up to Goku fighting Nappa to be about 3 to 5 episodes. That'd crunch 22 DBZ episodes (of mostly filler) into about 7 Kai episodes.

From the manga standpoint, we're looking (roughly) at turning 19 chapters into 7 episodes. So, about 2.75 chapters per episode if everything were split dead even, which we know it won't be.

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:10 pm

That chapter count is pretty good, just keep in mind they always stop at the end of a manga chapter.

I hope stuff like the orphans, and the pendulum room stays but all that other stuff can go. I couldn't care less for the robot, Goz & Mez, and Arlia. It'll be interesting to see how they fill the next four or five episodes until the saiyajin arrive.

Just as a fun prediction, I think in episode nine or ten; the Saibamen have been destroyed and the battle with Nappa has begun.

Kai_fan · Post by **Kai_fan** » Mon May 11, 2009 5:12 pm

This is about how Kai should break down:

**ORIGINAL MANGA**
195-242 (48) Saiyans
243-329 (87) Freeza
330-420 (91) Androids/Cell
421-519 (99) Boo
325 total chapters

**DBZ ANIME**
1-35 (35) Saiyans
36-117 (82) Freeza
118-199 (82) Androids/Cell
200-291 (92) Boo
291 total episodes

Overall it took 34 fewer anime episodes than manga chapters to get through the story, but for the most part, the correlation between the number of episodes in each arc and the number of manga chapters was close to 1:1 (with every arc having between 5-10 more chapters than TV episodes).

It appears that the plan for DBK is to average 3 manga chapters per episode, based both on what we have seen so far, and on the "100 episodes" number that Toei gave (325 / 3 = ~100). Obviously they can't give us an exact episode count because they're editing the show week-to-week on the fly (as opposed to having the whole thing pre-planned down to the minute).

But if we just take the total number of chapters for each arc and divide by 3, Kai should break down very close to this:

1-16 (16) Saiyans (April 5 - July 19)
17-45 (29) Freeza (July 26 2009 - February 7 2010)
46-75 (30) Androids/Cell (February 14 - September 5)
76-108 (33) Boo (September 12 - April 24 2011)
108 total

Kai_fan · Post by **Kai_fan** » Mon May 11, 2009 5:31 pm

I don't know about you guys, but the prospect of a Freeza arc that breezes by in 30 episodes makes me smile.

For those who are complaining about the pace of Kai now, give it time. The Saiyan arc (particularly the first episodes) is very dense in story. The nature of the Saiyan filter is also unique, in that it's more of a "full episode-chunks at a time" deal. So we're getting a lot of "this feels way too compressed" followed by, "holy crap, an entire block of episodes just got lobbed off."

The filler throughout the rest of the series though is more often a function of the directing. They don't so much add scenes and episodes as direct canon scenes with agonizing pacing (Freeza being the worst of this, to a degree that is infamous to even non-fans). The editing they'll do within those scenes is going to work wonders.

A lot of the cutting might be painful now, but come Freeza/Cell/Boo, it's going to feel like a Swedish massage.

Within a decade, Kai will be considered the definitive anime version of Dragon Ball. THAT"S what people are going to put in their DVD players when they revisit the series, or introduce new people to it. Nobody is going to be watching Z in its eternity anymore, other than sick masochists who actually like watching Bulma duel with the giant crab.

Missing lines and bits and censors notwithstanding, Kai really is much closer to the way Dragon Ball "was meant to be seen" than Z was, and it will be a far more watchable and entertaining series.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Mon May 11, 2009 5:50 pm

There was genuinely good filler though. I really like the filler in the Saiyan saga; of Gohan and his adventures. It's a great throwback to simpler times in the Dragon Ball story.

Also, I love the extended fights in the Buu saga. Particularly Vegetto vs. Super Buu. I think Toei really got the pacing right in the Buu saga. I'm going to miss a lot of that. But I suppose it's worth it for all the shit they're going to cut out of Namek.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Mon May 11, 2009 6:31 pm

Well, the thing is you can still watch DBZ for the filler you like. This is the same story, condensed and redirected.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Mon May 11, 2009 11:35 pm

Kai_fan wrote: Within a decade, Kai will be considered the definitive anime version of Dragon Ball. THAT"S what people are going to put in their DVD players when they revisit the series, or introduce new people to it. Nobody is going to be watching Z in its eternity anymore, other than sick masochists who actually like watching Bulma duel with the giant crab.

Or, y'know, some people may also legitimately prefer the original execution. That's a possibility, too.

Kai_fan · Post by **Kai_fan** » Tue May 12, 2009 1:57 pm

Yeah, after sleeping on it, I guess that comes off as over-authoritative.

But, so long as it doesn't make a lot of massive and horrible choices, I think Kai is gonna replace DBZ for me personally. Ten years ago I was wishing they'd do a filler-less version, to the point that I almost did it myself. Now I don't have to! I always felt like the story was crippled and badly diluted by the filler. Some people have affection for it though, which I understand.

ssjcj · Post by **ssjcj** » Tue May 12, 2009 3:52 pm

Kai_fan wrote:Yeah, after sleeping on it, I guess that comes off as over-authoritative.

But, so long as it doesn't make a lot of massive and horrible choices, I think Kai is gonna replace DBZ for me personally. Ten years ago I was wishing they'd do a filler-less version, to the point that I almost did it myself. Now I don't have to! I always felt like the story was crippled and badly diluted by the filler. Some people have affection for it though, which I understand.

Judging from everything I have read, most if not all prefer Z to Kai. The censoring is a big issue. Not only that, Kai seems a little rushed and the delivery of lines are not the same. For the older fan, I believe most people would want to see Z. As a result one won't 'replace' the other.

Rod · Post by **Rod** » Tue May 12, 2009 3:57 pm

ssjcj wrote:
Kai_fan wrote:Yeah, after sleeping on it, I guess that comes off as over-authoritative.

But, so long as it doesn't make a lot of massive and horrible choices, I think Kai is gonna replace DBZ for me personally. Ten years ago I was wishing they'd do a filler-less version, to the point that I almost did it myself. Now I don't have to! I always felt like the story was crippled and badly diluted by the filler. Some people have affection for it though, which I understand.
Judging from everything I have read, most if not all prefer Z to Kai. The censoring is a big issue. Not only that, Kai seems a little rushed and the delivery of lines are not the same. For the older fan, I believe most people would want to see Z. As a result one won't 'replace' the other.

True, but definitely not all, I haven't made up my mind yet since there are only 6 episodes, but I hate fillers so much no matter what series, I'm pro-canon, I honestly think I will prefer Kai over Z, plus high definition. But Z will always have a special place in my memory because that's what I grew up with

B · Post by B » Tue May 12, 2009 4:28 pm

I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if Kai did evetually replace Z. IIRC, manga is a huge thing in Japan, whilst anime is of a lesser "tier," for lack of a better word. So, I don't beleive Kai would ever get rid of the manga, but as for Z, who knows? I'd say it's a long shot, but not impossible, especially if we eventually get uncut releases.

If we're talking America, no, Kai won't, even if FUNimation decides to dub it.

Rod · Post by **Rod** » Tue May 12, 2009 4:39 pm

B wrote:I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if Kai did evetually replace Z. IIRC, manga is a huge thing in Japan, whilst anime is of a lesser "tier," for lack of a better word. So, I don't beleive Kai would ever get rid of the manga, but as for Z, who knows? I'd say it's a long shot, but not impossible, especially if we eventually get uncut releases.

If we're talking America, no, Kai won't, even if FUNimation decides to dub it.

Nothing will ever replace manga

From what I heard it's been a very long time since they did dub something, is this true?

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Tue May 12, 2009 4:39 pm

ssjcj wrote:
Kai_fan wrote:Yeah, after sleeping on it, I guess that comes off as over-authoritative.

But, so long as it doesn't make a lot of massive and horrible choices, I think Kai is gonna replace DBZ for me personally. Ten years ago I was wishing they'd do a filler-less version, to the point that I almost did it myself. Now I don't have to! I always felt like the story was crippled and badly diluted by the filler. Some people have affection for it though, which I understand.
Judging from everything I have read, most if not all prefer Z to Kai. The censoring is a big issue. Not only that, Kai seems a little rushed and the delivery of lines are not the same. For the older fan, I believe most people would want to see Z. As a result one won't 'replace' the other.

In my opinion they tried to do too much in the early episodes. The episodes with Raditz dont have that much filler so they could just take out that filler and leave ALL the rest.

The bigger cuts would come in due time as the filler would get bigger. No need to overdo things right in the beginning.

(On top of that they added censorship which is not very much liked by pretty much everyone. Some people are ok with it but no one is truly glad they added censorship.)

Senzu_Bean · Post by **Senzu_Bean** » Tue May 12, 2009 5:07 pm

I have been watching DBZ lately (Cell absorbed #18 today) and the episodes pace are awful. One episode entirely focused if Vegeta is going to let Cell absorb #18 is just darn ridiculous. Not to mention the fillers are fucking stupid- if Trunks is as strong as Vegeta why wouldn't he be capable of destroy Cell if he had the chance to? Ridiculous! I already prefer Kai over Z without doubts.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Tue May 12, 2009 5:25 pm

Senzu_Bean wrote:I have been watching DBZ lately (Cell absorbed #18 today) and the episodes pace are awful. One episode entirely focused if Vegeta is going to let Cell absorb #18 is just darn ridiculous. Not to mention the fillers are fucking stupid- if Trunks is as strong as Vegeta why wouldn't he be capable of destroy Cell if he had the chance to? Ridiculous! I already prefer Kai over Z without doubts.

Sic radical?

I watched the episode today too, and yeah the pace is terrible.

In my previous post I was just trying to say that they could do even better.

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Tue May 12, 2009 11:17 pm

I think Kai is wonderful.
If the Pacing stays as it has been, then I'll prefer Kai in the end.

The censorship sucks, but Japanese TV standards have changed, One Piece is proof of this. So I'm fine with it.

Kanzenshuu

Is Kai Moving Along Too Fast?

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