Kai episode 3

Smooth Criminal · Post by **Smooth Criminal** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:31 am

What really gets me is the fact that all the "hardcore" fans almost UNANIMOUSLY panned Funimation and their DBZ products for years despite their improving efforts to stay true to the original, and now that TOEI is hacking the fuck out if it, everyone is all, "wow cool shit bro."

I remember the shitstorm when FUNi announced the season sets would be in cropped widescreen. Now that TOEI is doing that and worse, it's suddenly a good thing. Serious fucking hypocrites. Pulling that "it's an option, the original still exists" nonsense out of the bag is just grasping for straws. Nobody said any of that when the season sets were being released. This is a clear example of people turning a blind eye to BULLSHIT.

If FUNi put out a 2009 DBZ release featuring Goku with a 'bruised' chest despite the beam physically PENETRATING his body, I can guarantee there would be hell to pay from every member of the DaizEX boards. But now, we have people saying this is "more true" to the manga, and that the violence didn't have a real impact on the scene thus it's no big deal. This is now reaching absurd levels of damage control never before seen in DBZ fandom.

I hope FUNi doesn't pick this up. It's just an obvious cash-in that contributes nothing to the franchise other than another notch on the 'shame' belt.

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:40 am

Smooth Criminal wrote:What really gets me is the fact that all the "hardcore" fans almost UNANIMOUSLY panned Funimation and their DBZ products for years despite their improving efforts to stay true to the original, and now that TOEI is hacking the fuck out if it, everyone is all, "wow cool shit bro."

I remember the shitstorm when FUNi announced the season sets would be in cropped widescreen. Now that TOEI is doing that and worse, it's suddenly a good thing. Serious fucking hypocrites. Pulling that "it's an option, the original still exists" nonsense out of the bag is just grasping for straws. Nobody said any of that when the season sets were being released. This is a clear example of people turning a blind eye to BULLSHIT.

If FUNi put out a 2009 DBZ release featuring Goku with a 'bruised' chest despite the beam physically PENETRATING his body, I can guarantee there would be hell to pay from every member of the DaizEX boards. But now, we have people saying this is "more true" to the manga, and that the violence didn't have a real impact on the scene thus it's no big deal. This is now reaching absurd levels of damage control never before seen in DBZ fandom.

I hope FUNi doesn't pick this up. It's just an obvious cash-in that contributes nothing to the franchise other than another notch on the 'shame' belt.

Regarding the part that I bolded (and everything in your argument it relates to), you have to understand that DBZ and Kai are now two separate properties. I don't like it when FUNi messes with DBZ and I wouldn't like it if Toei did either. But Kai is a separate branding with different advertising, distribution, etc. The two are not related, and that's not a cop-out.

As for everything else you said, I actually kind of agree. I'm seeing some hypocritical stuff turning up in these threads regarding the content of Kai. But whatever, people are gonna like what they're gonna like.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:43 am

Smooth Criminal wrote:Nobody said any of that when the season sets were being released.

That's because FUNi never did release the whole series in 4:3 and Japanese. There's no way to own it that way legally in America. That's why Kai, even if it's bad, is forgettable.

Also, you're acting like people aren't angry over the 'censoring'. Plenty of people have said they don't like it. Doesn't it count because we're not going, "OMG THIS SHIT SUX I'M NEVER WATCHING THIS AGAIN I'M SO ANGRY I'M GOING TO GO AND PUNCH A WALL"?

TheMajinRedComet · Post by **TheMajinRedComet** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:45 am

So did Piccolo kill Raditz with his energy or did he just scream at him??? I think I like the original better and some of the scenes in this episode, brought back memories of the saban years.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:47 am

Separate branding doesn't mean much to me, really. I mean, what's in a name?

The animation is still the same, edits and annoying cropping aside. The characters, story, situation, all re-used. It's Z, trimmed-down. And if you're going to abridge Z, I think you shouldn't mess around with the violence or aspect ratio.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:50 am

TheMajinRedComet wrote:So did Piccolo kill Raditz with his energy or did he just scream at him??? I think I like the original better and some of the scenes in this episode, brought back memories of the saban years.

It never even shows what he does to kill him in the manga. It just shows Piccolo raise his hand, yell, and next panel Raditz is dead with the ground around him cracked. It was probably a kiai shout type attack.

Saiyavenger2941 · Post by **Saiyavenger2941** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:53 am

I thought he just died naturally of his injuries before Pic could finish it himself, honestly.

Chrono Trigger · Post by **Chrono Trigger** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:58 am

Smooth Criminal wrote:What really gets me is the fact that all the "hardcore" fans almost UNANIMOUSLY panned Funimation and their DBZ products for years despite their improving efforts to stay true to the original, and now that TOEI is hacking the fuck out if it, everyone is all, "wow cool shit bro."

Gasp! Are you trying to imply that TOEI is getting a free pass!?Well good sir you must keep in my mind that while the edits might suck it's no where near as bad as what Funimation did. What Funimation did was inexcusable and they deserved the years of hate the got! Toei however already put the series out properly so people have a choice. Dragon Ball Kai is it's own entity and if people don't like the changes then they can just buy the Dragon Box singles! So it's all good!

Saiyavenger2941 · Post by **Saiyavenger2941** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:03 am

Smooth Criminal wrote:What really gets me is the fact that all the "hardcore" fans almost UNANIMOUSLY panned Funimation and their DBZ products for years despite their improving efforts to stay true to the original, and now that TOEI is hacking the fuck out if it, everyone is all, "wow cool shit bro."

Hey, hey. Not ALL the hardcore fans panned Funi. I'm quite rabid with my love for the series, but I still like the dub more than the original. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one here who's like that, as well.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:05 am

Smooth Criminal wrote:Pulling that "it's an option, the original still exists" nonsense out of the bag is just grasping for straws. Nobody said any of that when the season sets were being released.

Excuse me?! Were you even reading this forum when that went down? Obviously you have a selective memory because I vividly remember the whole "They should'a released the rest of the Ultimate Uncuts first," complaints that many were making.

There's also the fact that FUNi went out of their way to lie to us with tech videos and that image comparison crap where their idea of overscan was completely out-of-date compared to modern 4:3 televisions all in an effort to make us think we weren't losing any footage vertically.

You might wanna go back and read some of those old threads, dude.

Post by **Herms** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:07 am

Smooth Criminal wrote:What really gets me is the fact that all the "hardcore" fans almost UNANIMOUSLY panned Funimation and their DBZ products for years despite their improving efforts to stay true to the original, and now that TOEI is hacking the fuck out if it, everyone is all, "wow cool shit bro."

Except everyone isn't saying "cool shit". If you actually look around this thread and the other Kai-related ones you'll see tons of people saying they don't like this censoring or the cropping or whatnot.

TheMajinRedComet wrote:So did Piccolo kill Raditz with his energy or did he just scream at him???

He apparently kills him with some invisible energy wave. If you look at the manga page closely, you can see that Raditz's body is shaking from some sort of blow, even though it never shows Piccolo actually touch him.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:08 am

For the record, I own all of the Season Sets so far, so...I'm not one of the people who raged over them.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:09 am

Chrono Trigger wrote:
Smooth Criminal wrote:What really gets me is the fact that all the "hardcore" fans almost UNANIMOUSLY panned Funimation and their DBZ products for years despite their improving efforts to stay true to the original, and now that TOEI is hacking the fuck out if it, everyone is all, "wow cool shit bro."
Gasp! Are you trying to imply that TOEI is getting a free pass!?Well good sir you must keep in my mind that while the edits might suck it's no where near as bad as what Funimation did. What Funimation did was inexcusable and they deserved the years of hate the got! Toei however already put the series out properly so people have a choice. Dragon Ball Kai is it's own entity and if people don't like the changes then they can just buy the Dragon Box singles! So it's all good!

FUNi's release was missing 40 episodes. The existence of 4:3 singles for Z other than those 40 episodes does not make the seasons that also have single releases good products.

In the hypothetical scenario that FUNi didn't discontinue their singles, the Season Sets would still not be good products. And in fact, it'd be pretty bad, because the prices of the singles would put a pretty high premium on 4:3 Z as opposed to 16:9 Z.

And I actually want to watch Kai. I actually want to see bits slimmed down. I can't actually see that in 4:3, though, because Toei pulled the "kids hate black bars" logic again and took away the intended framing.

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:14 am

Here's a scan of the manga to compare to the image Tanooki Kuribo posted from Kai and a FUNi release:

<-- Tanooki Kuribo's image.

shotkeeper · Post by **shotkeeper** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:53 am

DBW wrote:
Smooth Criminal wrote:What really gets me is the fact that all the "hardcore" fans almost UNANIMOUSLY panned Funimation and their DBZ products for years despite their improving efforts to stay true to the original, and now that TOEI is hacking the fuck out if it, everyone is all, "wow cool shit bro."

I remember the shitstorm when FUNi announced the season sets would be in cropped widescreen. Now that TOEI is doing that and worse, it's suddenly a good thing. Serious fucking hypocrites. Pulling that "it's an option, the original still exists" nonsense out of the bag is just grasping for straws. Nobody said any of that when the season sets were being released. This is a clear example of people turning a blind eye to BULLSHIT.

If FUNi put out a 2009 DBZ release featuring Goku with a 'bruised' chest despite the beam physically PENETRATING his body, I can guarantee there would be hell to pay from every member of the DaizEX boards. But now, we have people saying this is "more true" to the manga, and that the violence didn't have a real impact on the scene thus it's no big deal. This is now reaching absurd levels of damage control never before seen in DBZ fandom.

I hope FUNi doesn't pick this up. It's just an obvious cash-in that contributes nothing to the franchise other than another notch on the 'shame' belt.
Regarding the part that I bolded (and everything in your argument it relates to), you have to understand that DBZ and Kai are now two separate properties. I don't like it when FUNi messes with DBZ and I wouldn't like it if Toei did either. But Kai is a separate branding with different advertising, distribution, etc. The two are not related, and that's not a cop-out.

As for everything else you said, I actually kind of agree. I'm seeing some hypocritical stuff turning up in these threads regarding the content of Kai. But whatever, people are gonna like what they're gonna like.

First of all, thank you for admiting that there are hypocrites. I've been saying this for the last days and everybody acts like they don't see it.

The only thing I don't understand is, how can DBZ and DB Kai, not be related. Just answer me very honestly. If Funimation released a new serie with a different name and fucked the whole serie up. Leaving shit out, giving it a HD look ( 'IT'S NOT MEANT TO BE SEEN LIKE THAT ' like you guys used to say), sencoring it. Would you accept it?

I can already see things like, ' look what they are doing' , ' they are disgracing the show' blablabla.

Commander_Red · Post by **Commander_Red** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:14 am

Smooth Criminal wrote:What really gets me is the fact that all the "hardcore" fans almost UNANIMOUSLY panned Funimation and their DBZ products for years despite their improving efforts to stay true to the original, and now that TOEI is hacking the fuck out if it, everyone is all, "wow cool shit bro."

I remember the shitstorm when FUNi announced the season sets would be in cropped widescreen. Now that TOEI is doing that and worse, it's suddenly a good thing. Serious fucking hypocrites. Pulling that "it's an option, the original still exists" nonsense out of the bag is just grasping for straws. Nobody said any of that when the season sets were being released. This is a clear example of people turning a blind eye to BULLSHIT.

If FUNi put out a 2009 DBZ release featuring Goku with a 'bruised' chest despite the beam physically PENETRATING his body, I can guarantee there would be hell to pay from every member of the DaizEX boards. But now, we have people saying this is "more true" to the manga, and that the violence didn't have a real impact on the scene thus it's no big deal. This is now reaching absurd levels of damage control never before seen in DBZ fandom.

I hope FUNi doesn't pick this up. It's just an obvious cash-in that contributes nothing to the franchise other than another notch on the 'shame' belt.

While I've got no beef with the season sets and am quite happy they came out despite a few quality issues that sorta get to me (we gotta power quality, the myserious youth..?) people respect and trust TOEI and the way they've treated DBZ as compared to Funi who treat DBZ like crap compared to their other properties.
/my two cents

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:15 am

I've been loving Kai but this seems like a sign of things to come. The show does not get less violent. You can't even fairly compare the bruise to funi, thats Saban era bad.

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:18 am

shotkeeper wrote:First of all, thank you for admiting that there are hypocrites. I've been saying this for the last days and everybody acts like they don't see it.

The only thing I don't understand is, how can DBZ and DB Kai, not be related. Just answer me very honestly. If Funimation released a new serie with a different name and fucked the whole serie up. Leaving shit out, giving it a HD look ( 'IT'S NOT MEANT TO BE SEEN LIKE THAT ' like you guys used to say), sencoring it. Would you accept it?

I can already see things like, ' look what they are doing' , ' they are disgracing the show' blablabla.

Would I accept it? Sure. Would I like it, probably not. But at least it's branded properly.

Here's the thing. These DBZ episodes aired in 1989, and were released by Toei in 2003 and 2005 in their original broadcast format. Period. Kai obviously relates to DBZ, but doesn't affect it. Those DVDs are still available, in their original uncut glory. My opinions on Kai don't change that.

If FUNimation released a "DragonBall Supreme" series or whatever, we could still ask for a proper, separate DBZ release. However, as it stands, they're releasing a "DragonBall Z" that doesn't conform to either the Japanese or American broadcast versions. So where is the North American release of DragonBall Z? Well, there's a bunch in the singles, and a bit in the Ultimate Uncuts, but really there was never a full release.

And yeah, I see hypocrisy here, but I'm just speaking in general. There's no single person I can point out or anything. It's just that the DragonBall community I was raised on spent many years hacking FUNimation and Saban to pieces for very similar reasons. To see an acceptance of it now from a number of people is just strange. I'm sure they legitimately like it though, that's why I say it's just of the community in general.

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:29 pm

I complained about the censorship, but then remembered that this has a morning slot. Then I cooled down; obviously I wasn't paying attention, because I thought it had a night slot like DB had all through its run.

So the edits are understandable, I think; unless of course, One Piece gets away with much more.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:36 pm

Ha ha no fucking way am I giving a free pass to that. That's a pathetic censor that rivals the Saban days. I'm not saying it ruined Kai but c'mon guys.

Kanzenshuu

Kai episode 3

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