SSJ2 Goku vs Broly?!

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

Please, it's not about the discussion of actual SSJ2 vs Broly. I was talking about the term in power. Anyway, I was watching Dragon Box Movie #8 I just got a couple of days ago. At near end of that movie, I saw Broly got his butt handed to him by greatly powered up Goku. So was powered up Goku equavalent SSJ2 in power? I remember there was a Daizenshuu book stating that SSJ2 overpowers LSSJ. Was this a hint that in the future Goku would go SSJ? I'm curious about your opinion.

P.S. At the scene just before Goku punched Broly's stomach, you could see Broly's hair being blonde instead of greenish color.

[Senzu_Bean]

So was powered up Goku equavalent SSJ2 in power?

Hell no! Goku was still a Super Saiyan and thus he had Super Saiyan power.

[Saiyan-Professor]

Please, it's not about the discussion of actual SSJ2 vs Broly. I was talking about the term in power. Anyway, I was watching Dragon Box Movie #8 I just got a couple of days ago. At near end of that movie, I saw Broly got his butt handed to him by greatly powered up Goku. So was powered up Goku equavalent SSJ2 in power? I remember there was a Daizenshuu book stating that SSJ2 overpowers LSSJ. Was this a hint that in the future Goku would go SSJ? I'm curious about your opinion.

P.S. At the scene just before Goku punched Broly's stomach, you could see Broly's hair being blonde instead of greenish color.

First, to begin with, Kakarrot was not a Super Saiyan 2 and Broli’s defeat was B.S., which is why some fans call that stupid attack the “Toei Punch”, because Toei would be the only ones that were silly enough to come up with an ending so ridiculous. Second, I do not recall any Daizenshuu comparing Legendary Super Saiyan with Super Saiyan 2. If anything the movies seems to imply that Broli’s form was stronger than Son Gohan’s Super Saiyan 2. As afar as the hair is concerned it was all due to Toei wanting to do something to make Broli distinct from the regular Super Saiyan forms because in the next movie they went with the regular coloring scheme.

[Wojak]

If anything the movies seems to imply that Broli’s form was stronger than Son Gohan’s Super Saiyan 2.

Which Super Saiya-jin 2 form? I never noticed such a thing in that movie.



Get's the ball of the Brolly-Gohan-SSJ2-or-not-movie 10-ultimate-terror rolling.

Seriously, I doubt that Goku was at a SSJ2's level. Brolly was at most between Perfect and Semi-perfect Cell's level.

[Senzu_Bean]

Brolly was at most between Perfect and Semi-perfect Cell's level.

Do you mean between Kanzentai Cell Full-Power and Kanzentai Cell.

[Dayspring]

Brolly was at most between Perfect and Semi-perfect Cell's level.

Do you mean between Kanzentai Cell Full-Power and Kanzentai Cell.

No; "semi-perfect" is what people refer Cell as when he's only assimilated #17.

[Senzu_Bean]

Brolly was at most between Perfect and Semi-perfect Cell's level.

Do you mean between Kanzentai Cell Full-Power and Kanzentai Cell.

No; "semi-perfect" is what people refer Cell as when he's only assimilated #17.

I know but Broly cannot be that weak, is ridiculous.

[Kaboom]

I know but Broly cannot be that weak, is ridiculous.

Broly couldn't have been fighting everyone as they were at the Cell Games. The power scaling doesn't match up.

At the Cell Games, Goku and Gohan were WAY ahead of Vegeta and Trunks in power, and they in turn were WAY ahead of Piccolo. In Movie 8, though, while all the Saiyans are Super Saiyans (including Gohan), nobody seems any more powerful than anyone else (aside from Goku's usual slight "Toei Boost," of course), and nobody shows any signs of being any "special" type of Super Saiyan like they were sporting throughout the Cell arc. And what's more, Piccolo is putting up just as good a fight against Broly as everyone else, meaning he can't be too far behind any of them.

So Broly wasn't fighting immensely powerful Super Saiyans from the Cell Games. He was fighting Super Saiyans who were probably not too far ahead of fused-with-Kami Piccolo in power.

[Dayspring]

Do you mean between Kanzentai Cell Full-Power and Kanzentai Cell.

No; "semi-perfect" is what people refer Cell as when he's only assimilated #17.

I know but Broly cannot be that weak, is ridiculous.

Why not? Look how easily he got defeated by Goku. LSSJ is either just this continuity's USSJ2, or a variant on USSJ2 that doesn't consume power in order to maintain that form.

EDIT: A friend of mine has a decent in-story explanation for Broly's defeat by the TOEI punch. Broly's power increased constantly, with even him commenting at one point that he felt like it was exploding. Speaking of exploding, that's more or less what happens a second after he gets wounded. What if the punch only caused a wound, and the rest was caused by Broly being too powerful? In other words, the small wound acted as a crack in a dam would.

[Senzu_Bean]

At the Cell Games, Goku and Gohan were WAY ahead of Vegeta and Trunks in power, and they in turn were WAY ahead of Piccolo.

Piccolo is almost even with SSJ Vegeta and Trunks at the Cell Games. Proof of this is Piccolo stood against Cell Jr. while Vegeta/Trunks were a match for them. Plus both Vegeta and Trunks are SSJ 2nd Grade... yep, you probably do not agree but whatever. Third Gohan and Goku exhibit signs of SSJ mastery like relaxed facial expressions.

[Dayspring]

At the Cell Games, Goku and Gohan were WAY ahead of Vegeta and Trunks in power, and they in turn were WAY ahead of Piccolo.

Piccolo is almost even with SSJ Vegeta and Trunks at the Cell Games. Proof of this is Piccolo stood against Cell Jr. while Vegeta/Trunks were a match for them. Plus both Vegeta and Trunks are SSJ 2nd Grade... yep, you probably do not agree but whatever. Third Gohan and Goku exhibit signs of SSJ mastery like relaxed facial expressions.

Piccolo got his ass handed to him, just not as badly as the humans. Granted he's still standing, but unlike Trunks and Vegeta, his face is a bloody mess.

[Kaboom]

Piccolo got his ass handed to him, just not as badly as the humans. Granted he's still standing, but unlike Trunks and Vegeta, his face is a bloody mess.

Plus, the Cell Jrs. were all toying with everyone anyway. Otherwise not just Piccolo, but Tenshinhan, Yamcha, and Kuririn would have been dead in seconds. They weren't going for the kills until Cell told them to.

[Senzu_Bean]

Piccolo got his ass handed to him, just not as badly as the humans. Granted he's still standing, but unlike Trunks and Vegeta, his face is a bloody mess.

Plus, the Cell Jrs. were all toying with everyone anyway. Otherwise not just Piccolo, but Tenshinhan, Yamcha, and Kuririn would have been dead in seconds. They weren't going for the kills until Cell told them to.

However if Tienshinhan, Yamcha and Krillin all got their ass kicked badly, Vegeta and Trunks gave them fight and Piccolo stood against it I am pretty sure Piccolo is almost even with them. Although this is just my view of the facts and I am tired of discuss the same thing over and over again (one of the reason why I do not visit MFG more ).

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Piccolo wasn't close to Vegeta or Trunks. Cell mentions the latter 2 as being able to hold their own against the Cell Jr's--which means Piccolo was gettin his ass kicked when Cell decided to glance over whenever he did.

[Senzu_Bean]

Piccolo wasn't close to Vegeta or Trunks. Cell mentions the latter 2 as being able to hold their own against the Cell Jr's--which means Piccolo was gettin his ass kicked when Cell decided to glance over whenever he did.

Hold their own =/= getting his ass kicked.

[Dayspring]

Piccolo got his ass handed to him, just not as badly as the humans. Granted he's still standing, but unlike Trunks and Vegeta, his face is a bloody mess.

Plus, the Cell Jrs. were all toying with everyone anyway. Otherwise not just Piccolo, but Tenshinhan, Yamcha, and Kuririn would have been dead in seconds. They weren't going for the kills until Cell told them to.

However if Tenshinhan, Yamcha and Krillin all got their ass kicked badly, Vegeta and Trunks gave them fight and Piccolo stood against it I am pretty sure Piccolo is almost even with them. Although this is just my view of the facts and I am tired of discuss the same thing over and over again (one of the reason why I do not visit MFG more ).

Not quite. The Cell Jrs put up a serious fight against Vegeta and Trunks because they were at the same strength. The Cell Jr that fought Piccolo wasn't hurt at all, while Piccolo was in significantly worse condition than Vegeta, Trunks, and their Cell Jrs were. This shows that Piccolo was A LOT weaker than Vegeta and Trunks. I wouldn't be surprised if the gap between Cell Jr and Piccolo was about as big as between Raditz and Goku.

[Saiyan-Professor]

I know but Broly cannot be that weak, is ridiculous.

Broly couldn't have been fighting everyone as they were at the Cell Games. The power scaling doesn't match up.

At the Cell Games, Goku and Gohan were WAY ahead of Vegeta and Trunks in power, and they in turn were WAY ahead of Piccolo. In Movie 8, though, while all the Saiyans are Super Saiyans (including Gohan), nobody seems any more powerful than anyone else (aside from Goku's usual slight "Toei Boost," of course), and nobody shows any signs of being any "special" type of Super Saiyan like they were sporting throughout the Cell arc. And what's more, Piccolo is putting up just as good a fight against Broly as everyone else, meaning he can't be too far behind any of them.

So Broly wasn't fighting immensely powerful Super Saiyans from the Cell Games. He was fighting Super Saiyans who were probably not too far ahead of fused-with-Kami Piccolo in power.

You ever thought that the Z-Senshi were so over powered that it looked as if they were a bunch of weaklings.

[Kaboom]

You ever thought that the Z-Senshi were so over powered that it looked as if they were a bunch of weaklings.

I'm not so much concerned about comparing them to Broly as comparing them to each other.

EDIT:

There's one more thing, too. When fighting Broly in Movie 10, Gohan gets a bit annoyed that Broly's giving him so much trouble, saying, "and here I'm supposed to have powered up considerably since then!"

Which means that Gohan has become a lot stronger than he was the last time he fought Broly. But this Gohan never improved from his Cell Games power, in fact, he's gotten a bit weaker over seven years. Which means that the Gohan who fought Broly before couldn't have been his MMSj Cell Games self.

[Saiyan-Professor]

You ever thought that the Z-Senshi were so over powered that it looked as if they were a bunch of weaklings.

I'm not so much concerned about comparing them to Broly as comparing them to each other.

EDIT:

There's one more thing, too. When fighting Broly in Movie 10, Gohan gets a bit annoyed that Broly's giving him so much trouble, saying, "and here I'm supposed to have powered up considerably since then!"

Which means that Gohan has become a lot stronger than he was the last time he fought Broly. But this Gohan never improved from his Cell Games power, in fact, he's gotten a bit weaker over seven years. Which means that the Gohan who fought Broly before couldn't have been his MMSj Cell Games self.

How do you gather that when the Daizenshuu states that Broli was stronger than in Movie #8? If Son Gohan was not stronger than he was previously he could not have done what little he did against Broli.

[Kaboom]

Yes, that's the point.

Gohan was weaker than Broly in Movie 8.
Then Gohan becomes an MSSj, and is considerably stronger.
So when Broly shows up later, Gohan expects to be able to easily beat him.
But he can't, since Broly's gotten a lot stronger too.
Which means that only NOW, in Movie 10, has Broly become strong enough to beat on MSSjs. Such could not have been the case in Movie 8.