Super Kaioken? can someone please explain this to me?!

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Was this in the manga? Is it even possible? some one explain please.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TQc-i9bSSA

[The Tori-bot]

No, it wasn't in the manga; it was only used that once in the Ano-Yo'ichi Budokai filler arc. It's basically just Goku... using Kaio-ken while in SSJ.

[Saiyan-Professor]

Was this in the manga? Is it even possible? some one explain please.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TQc-i9bSSA

Theoretically, this could be possible but to be honest I would think the strain would be far too great in the living world to pull off. If Kakarrot were to attempt that while alive, he would most likely blow himself up in the process. The Super Saiyan transformations and the Kaiô-Ken both are multipliers. They multiply the user’s base combat strength, yet Super Saiyan 1 for example offers more multiplication wise (x50) and it has less drawbacks.

No, it wasn't in the manga; it was only used that once in the Ano-Yo'ichi Budokai filler arc. It's basically just Goku... using Kaio-ken while in SSJ.

I agree that it was filler only and not in the manga but if, you strictly hold to the manga it is not possible and it never happened. Yet if you hold to the anime, my top post applies.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Was this in the manga? Is it even possible? some one explain please.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TQc-i9bSSA

Theoretically, this could be possible but to be honest I would think the strain would be far too great in the living world to pull off. If Kakarrot were to attempt that while alive, he would most likely blow himself up in the process. The Super Saiyan transformations and the Kaiô-Ken both are multipliers. They multiply the user’s base combat strength, yet Super Saiyan 1 for example offers more multiplication wise (x50) and it has less drawbacks.

No, it wasn't in the manga; it was only used that once in the Ano-Yo'ichi Budokai filler arc. It's basically just Goku... using Kaio-ken while in SSJ.

I agree that it was filler only and not in the manga but if, you strictly hold to the manga it is not possible and it never happened. Yet if you hold to the anime, my top post applies.

My friend and I thought the same thing, that it could only be used in the after life but we were still caught off guard by this. So much confusion during this arc...this AND the "black haired super Saiyan"(I know that was just an art mistake though XD)

[Wojak]

Heh, that would make Goku as powerful as a SSJ2 if he uses his SSJ and Kaio-ken x2. That shouldn't be hard for him since he has mastered the SSJ form, and Kaio-ken x2 is a piece of cake for him at that point.

And if he uses his Kaio-ken x20 he would outmatch a SSJ3: 50x20=1000. SSJ3 = 400.
And he would own Ultimate Gohan too, in that case.

So, yeah, it's not possible.

[Senzu_Bean]

Heh, that would make Goku as powerful as a SSJ2 if he uses his SSJ and Kaio-ken x2.

Which proves once and for all Paikuhan was indeed weaker than Kanzentai Cell post-Zenkai.

[Dayspring]

I don't think it's possible in the series at all, or else Goku would have used it against Cell or Kid Boo. For an-story explanation, maybe Kaioken and SSJ combined is only useable in the afterlife?

[Senzu_Bean]

For an-story explanation, maybe Kaioken and SSJ combined is only useable in the afterlife?

I agree. Probably too much strain or something.

[Kaboom]

I don't think it's possible in the series at all, or else Goku would have used it against Cell or Kid Boo.

Kaio-Ken works in bursts, and if I remember the fight with Paikuhan correctly, that's all Goku used it as. Cell and Buu would almost definitely be able to regenerate from anything Goku could do in that all-too-short span of time.

For an-story explanation, maybe Kaioken and SSJ combined is only useable in the afterlife?

That's a good idea too.

[Dayspring]

I don't think it's possible in the series at all, or else Goku would have used it against Cell or Kid Boo.

Kaio-Ken works in bursts, and if I remember the fight with Paikuhan correctly, that's all Goku used it as. Cell and Buu would almost definitely be able to regenerate from anything Goku could do in that all-too-short span of time.

True, but for attacks like the Kamehameha that took off Cell's upper body, as well as when Cell hid behind a barrier, a quick burst of strength would be all he'd need. As for against Kid Boo, if he needed so much time to gather energy, a quick Kaioken x10 (in SSJ3) would be more than enough to take out Kid Boo.

[Saiyan-Professor]

For an-story explanation, maybe Kaioken and SSJ combined is only useable in the afterlife?

I agree. Probably too much strain or something.

Did anyone read my post?

[Dayspring]

For an-story explanation, maybe Kaioken and SSJ combined is only useable in the afterlife?

I agree. Probably too much strain or something.

Did anyone read my post?

I did. Personally I feel it's more about being flat out impossible than just strain, which is why I didn't quote you when I said it. If it were just the strain, then I think Boo saga Goku could use it.


Can o'worms: What if SSJ3 is Super Kaioken?

[Wojak]

Kaio-Ken works in bursts

Goku when he fought Vegeta begs to differ.
When he used his 3x Kaioken, he held it for a long time, and also during the whole beam struggle.

[Dayspring]

Kaio-Ken works in bursts

Goku when he fought Vegeta begs to differ.
When he used his 3x Kaioken, he held it for a long time, and also during the whole beam struggle.

I call plothole, as the lack of kaioken aura proves it wore off. For an in-story answer to this, one could argue Kaioken x3 Goku beating on Vegeta resulted in Vegeta being weaker. The burst explanation isn't just daizenshuu; it's straight from Goku's mouth, and is supported in every instance other than kaioken x3.

[Saiyan-Professor]

I agree. Probably too much strain or something.

Did anyone read my post?

I did. Personally I feel it's more about being flat out impossible than just strain, which is why I didn't quote you when I said it. If it were just the strain, then I think Boo saga Goku could use it.


Can o'worms: What if SSJ3 is Super Kaioken?

Well that is why I said the blow himself up part, I think he could attempt it but we would have little bits and pieces of Kakarrot everywhere.

[Dayspring]

Did anyone read my post?

I did. Personally I feel it's more about being flat out impossible than just strain, which is why I didn't quote you when I said it. If it were just the strain, then I think Boo saga Goku could use it.


Can o'worms: What if SSJ3 is Super Kaioken?

Well that is why I said the blow himself up part, I think he could attempt it but we would have little bits and pieces of Kakarrot everywhere.

But something like that would blow him up in the afterlife too. We could argue the whole blow up scenario being because of afterlife physics, but the Super Kaioken occured shortly after the Cell Games. I truly think that after the 7-year gap Goku would be able to handle a Super Kaioken alive.

[Saiyan-Professor]

...But something like that would blow him up in the afterlife too. We could argue the whole blow up scenario being because of afterlife physics, but the Super Kaioken occured shortly after the Cell Games. I truly think that after the 7-year gap Goku would be able to handle a Super Kaioken alive.

I would love to hear your theory on how Kakarrot could use Super Kaiô-Ken post Dai- Kaiô’s Planet.

[Dayspring]

...But something like that would blow him up in the afterlife too. We could argue the whole blow up scenario being because of afterlife physics, but the Super Kaioken occured shortly after the Cell Games. I truly think that after the 7-year gap Goku would be able to handle a Super Kaioken alive.

I would love to hear your theory on how Kakarrot could use Super Kaiô-Ken post Dai- Kaiô’s Planet.

It's not that much of a theory: I just think that if it were straining the body, then we could argue he could use it in the afterlife because the afterlife lessened the strain, just as it did for SSJ3's energy consumption. If this were the case, then Goku would just need to be stronger (ie: train) in order to use it in the living world. I feel that 7 years of training would be more than enough for his body to handle that strain (in the living world).

Although to be fair, another in-story explanation could be that -since it doubles his SSJ form- Super Kaioken is the same as Kaioken x50, strain and all. Thus, regardless of its effects in the afterlife, Goku would immediatey deem it just as useless (if not more so) than any regular kaioken, and simply never use it again.


Still doesn't stop me from wishing Tenshinhan had mastered Kaioken x50, though.

[Senzu_Bean]

Still doesn't stop me from wishing Tenshinhan had mastered Kaioken x50, though.

Tienshinhan didn't even mastered Kaioken. And yes, Kaioken works in bursts.

[JulieYBM]

Toriyama likely completely forgot about the technique and even if he hadn't, Son would be a little hard to beat. It could be likely that Kaiô-ken just doesn't work with SSj.