Why so much hatred towards this name?

[VenomSymbiote]

Before I begin, I just want to point out that any words highlighted in blue are meant to be replaced with thier dub equivalents, since word filters make typing this post a bit difficult. If they are not in blue, they are specifically the names of the Japanese dub. Ok, with that out of the way...


I was recently in the chat room when a discussion about the FUNimation dub came up. Being a dubbie, I decided to participate. As the conversation moved along, I asked why the Dub Name "Hercule" has such a hatred towards it in the fandom (Well, here anyway, since I haven't heard a dubbie complain about this just yet). I'm focusing on this name specifically, since it seems to be despised the most, to the point that I'm forced to use colors to differentiate some words.

Taking "Hercule", first, most people say that his dub name has no known relation to his Japanese name, Mr.Satan. Ok, that's all fine and good. The main problem here being, well, his name is "Hercule" in the dub. Now, what exactly is the name itself derived from?

More than likely it comes from the name of an Ancient God, Hercules. (Note however, that the Roman name for this god is Hercules, while the Greek name for this god is Heracles) Now, let's assume that this article on Wikipedia is correct, and also ignores public opinion on Hercules. Check out what his personality is like:

"While he was a champion and a great warrior, he was not above cheating and using any unfair trick to his advantage. However, he was renowned as having "made the world safe for mankind" by destroying many dangerous monsters. His self-sacrifice obtained him the ascent to the Olympian realms and he was welcomed by the gods."

Let's analyze this paragraph, shall we?

1. "While he was a champion and a great warrior, he was not above cheating and using any unfair trick to his advantage."
Umm... Does this paragraph NOT describe Mr. Satan? I mean, come on. Next.

2. "However, he was renowned as having 'made the world safe for mankind' by destroying many dangerous monsters.
Umm... supposedly, Mr. Satan killed Cell. And although he didn't, if he hadn't thrown #16's head at Gohan, do you think Gohan would've had a trigger for SS 2? It's possible, since Cell did order the Cell Jrs to kill his friends. I guess this one can stay as an open book question.

And he also in one way or another, killed/stopped Buu. I mean, if it wasn't for those 2 criminals, Mr. Satan did indeed stop Buu. He asked him to stop killing people, and he agreed. Not only that, but what do you think Goku would've done had Mr. Satan not moved Vegeta out of the way for the Spirit Bomb? Do you think Goku would've had the heart to kill Vegeta for the earth? It's not he's Jack Bauer, who would kill one person to save milions of others. Mr. Satan gets more than likely saved the world here.

3. His self-sacrifice obtained him the ascent to the Olympian realms and he was welcomed by the gods.

While he wasn't welcomed by the gods in any sense of that word, (unless you count Old Kai and KibitoKai), Goku did acknowledge him as a "True Champion" and it's not like the Z-Fighters didn't evr accept him as an ally, as they did in GT.

See? "Mr. Satan" seems to make perfect sense for him. So, why is there so much hatred towards this name?

Oh, and I do ask that you don't bring the whole "His name is Mark" thing, since no one up until recently knew that was his name.

[The Tori-bot]

So, why is there so much hatred towards this name?

'Cause it's not his name.

Oh, and, uh.. because FUNi was just trying to cover their asses from batshit-crazy soccer moms who think that any kids' show with the word "Satan" in it should be banned.

And then there's the religious side of things and US broadcast standards... though, if you ask me, Cartoon Network might have let them get away with it. They have incarnations of the Devil himself in Cow and Chicken and Powerpuff Girls, fer cryin' out quietly.

[Rod]

Because there was no need for it to be censored, they just said

-"We can't use Satan, it's wrong it's satanic and it's sending a wrong message to kids.

-He's supposed to be strong, who else is strong? Oh yeah Hercules"

It just the same censoring problem with Kai, it's unnecessary. That's why I don't like the name

[VenomSymbiote]

And then there's the religious side of things and US broadcast standards... though, if you ask me, Cartoon Network might have let them get away with it. They have incarnations of the Devil himself in Cow and Chicken and Powerpuff Girls, fer cryin' out quietly.

Is it possible that only actual depictions of "Satan" and I guess "Hell" were to be removed? I mean, cleary those other depictions were cleary derived from Satan, but at the same time, there actaully had other names than "Satan." I mean come on, they didn't even give "Him" a name.

[ssjcj]

Funimation, I believe, got the H-word from the french dub. I think they should have called him Mr. Saturn or something similar (as pointed out in another thread). While it still sounds like the name, it doesn't offend people.

[VenomSymbiote]

Funimation, I believe, got the H-word from the french dub. I think should have called him Mr. Saturn or something similar (as pointed out in another thread). While it still sounds like the name, it doesn't offend people.

What, like Mr. Savage?
Yeah, they could've but at least to me, Mr. Savage makes even less sense then "Mr. Satan." does, as noted above, since it seems that in that case, they picked that name because, "Oh, it sounds close enough to Satan."

[VegettoEX]

Part of the frustration is FUNimation's acknowledgment of the original (as seen by using "Mr. Satan" in their uncut dub, from what I understand) and therefore inconsistent naming. It gets even worse when you consider their their biggest market (those who simply watched it on TV) will never know the character's actual name.

Take it a step further and we then had Viz taking a deep dive into the pits of terrible-ness around this time, with people like Jason Thompson jumping ship. Viz had a chance to show-up FUNimation (making a point to use the actual character names prior to this), but they ended up running back with their tail between their legs.

It's just one unfortunate, frustrating situation after another. Does it affect my love of the series? Hardly. Is it an annoyance none-the-less? Sure.

It would be slightly less obnoxious if they actually went with "Mr. Savage", but it with still be an annoyance on principal alone.

[Wojak]

the character's actual name.

Mark?

But the hatred (wouldn't know it there is any hatred in these forums though) stems from the name change which to some was not nessecary.
His ring name is Mr. Satan. Deal with it.
I guess it's OK to have wrestlers with names that indicate serious physical harm istead.

Children, don't worship the devil, punch on eachother instead!
That would make God a lot happier!

[VenomSymbiote]

Part of the frustration is FUNimation's acknowledgment of the original (as seen by using "Mr. Satan" in their uncut dub, from what I understand) and therefore inconsistent naming. It gets even worse when you consider their their biggest market (those who simply watched it on TV) will never know the character's actual name.

Alright, I can see the argument there. If they were going to use "Mr. Satan", then they should've been consistent.

Take it a step further and we then had Viz taking a deep dive into the pits of terrible-ness around this time, with people like Jason Thompson jumping ship. Viz had a chance to show-up FUNimation (making a point to use the actual character names prior to this), but they ended up running back with their tail between their legs.

Not too sure about the first sentence, but I suppose Viz did have a chance to one-up FUNimation here. Perhaps their own censorship laws make it impossible to translate that as well, despite apparently being more lax than FUNimation?

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Because there was no need for it to be censored, they just said

-"We can't use Satan, it's wrong it's satanic and it's sending a wrong message to kids.

-He's supposed to be strong, who else is strong? Oh yeah Hercules"

It just the same censoring problem with Kai, it's unnecessary. That's why I don't like the name

How is it unnecessary if they needed to do those things to get the show on TV?

[Haseowolf]

What I'm even more frustrated by is how the "H Word" snuck into our damn video games! They rated T for teen and that's why I don't understand why you can't use at least the uncut dub version and call him Mr. Satan.

If FUNimation's excuse for that is that it would be a great confusion for their younger fans, then why are they playing T games if they wouldn't be able to handle the name Mr. Satan?

Ratings for a reason, guys. That's why I can have all the blood and violence I want in my games without them being banned so if you wanna bring a T Dragon Ball game state side, run with it; don't pussy out.

[Rory]

Yeah, because that final scene when everybody is raising their hands to the sky chanting "Satan! Satan! Satan!" would've gone down great with the parents of America, right?
As a censoring, H e r c u l e is absolutely fine in my book, people get a little too pissy about this topic in my opinion. "Ugh, the dreaded H-word!", come on people, this is the part when you need to remember that it's just a cartoon, no need to get all frustrated! Actually, scratch that, I think what is rather frustrating is to see somebody thinking they're too high and mighty to use a naming term, or converse with somebody who is using that naming term, my college class is filled with dubbies, but I don't ":roll:" every time they say "Hercule", even if I don't.
That whole filter thing Mike does is really obnoxious too.
"M'yes, too good for dub naming convensions here! "

[The Tori-bot]

Yeah, because that final scene when everybody is raising their hands to the sky chanting "Satan! Satan! Satan!" would've gone down great with the parents of America, right?

Ah, I see. So in America, DB was adapted and marketed to appeal to parents? I never knew that.

[Rory]

Yeah, because that final scene when everybody is raising their hands to the sky chanting "Satan! Satan! Satan!" would've gone down great with the parents of America, right?

Ah, I see. So in America, DB was adapted and marketed to appeal to parents? I never knew that.

Strange, I don't recall saying that. I'm saying it would've been a dick move to call him Mr.Satan, because of scenes like that. The parents would get it pulled, and I can say it's a pretty justifyable cause.

[Rory]

Yeah, because that final scene when everybody is raising their hands to the sky chanting "Satan! Satan! Satan!" would've gone down great with the parents of America, right?
As a censoring, H e r c u l e is absolutely fine in my book, people get a little too pissy about this topic in my opinion. "Ugh, the dreaded H-word!", come on people, this is the part when you need to remember that it's just a cartoon, no need to get all frustrated! Actually, scratch that, I think what is rather frustrating is to see somebody thinking they're too high and mighty to use a naming term, or converse with somebody who is using that naming term, my college class is filled with dubbies, but I don't ":roll:" every time they say "H e r c u l e", even if I don't.
That whole filter thing Mike does is really obnoxious too.
"M'yes, too good for dub naming convensions here! "

[Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece]

I'm pretty sure they changed it because it would be culturally insensitive to 80% of Western Civilization.

Those out of the 80% who didn't care (Like us) were then given the option to buy the uncut version.

To Rory:

It's not a "too good for the dub" thing, it's a "faithful to the source content" thing.

Most fans prefer to be faithful to the source content, thus the use of Kuririn as opposed to Krillin, Tenshinhan as opposed to T I E N, Mr. Satan as opposed to H E R C U L E, Freeza as opposed to Frieza, ect.

Edit: Didn't realize Fry-zah was a word filter now.

[Saiyan-Professor]

In essence, it comes to the ultra Super fans want a Japanese English version of Dragonball if that is even possible and no one respects Christianity in the US. I profess to be a Christian and I must admit the majority annoys me just as much everyone else but what if the character name was Mr. Shaitan of Islam or Mr. Māra in Buddhism? It comes down to the majority do not honor or at the very least value religious conviction in general. Funimation was marketing to American consumers and they know that it is the (conservative) parents that purchase the material, and if you want to make money, the last thing you want to do is alienate the majority of your market. They could stand to lose some super fans but not the entire lot.

[ToshiMustgrind]

I just always call him "Mr.Satan" since it also plays into Videl's name.
It also just sounded funny. I mean, instead of just calling someone "Satan" they throw the "Mister" on there and now it's a fun character name.

I always figured "Hercule" was a play on "Hercules" but I never have warmed up to the name.
I do like it on the few occasions I have caught him called "Mr.Satan" in the English FUNi dubs (I think the "Bojack" film is an example of this)

[Kunzait_83]

b

[NeptuneKai]

I'm not religious therefore this stupid name change specifically for a special group of people that matter absolutely nothing to me now plaguing every DBZ product in existence is annoying. It would be the equivalent to me making up my own religion, getting tons of followers and saying the word "Goku" is the name of an evil cow in my story. Funi then proceeds to go "well fuck I guess his new name is going to be Steve since we can't offend the Barnyardians" you'd be pissed off too.

I know I'm going to get responses saying how Christianity is a big religion and tons of Christian mom's ears would burn off at the mention of Satan in a semi-positive context and hey what the fuck I understand that...for the TV broadcast and cut DVDs but there is no reason the name "Her.cule" has to plague anything else.

I don't even mind the name to be honest its just the whole "PROTECT THE CHILDREN HE SAID....SATAAAAN!!!!!" shit that makes me face palm.