Kai Episode 13 (27 June 2009)

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:47 pm

Mike wrote:As far as I'm concerned, until those DVDs come out there is nothing wrong with watching a show only broadcast in Japan on your computer. Once the Japanese DVDs are released things move a bit more into a gray area.

-Mike

I think to VegettoEX it's more a matter of not giving FUNi a reason to dislike this fan-base; such as if and when they do get the license for Kai, they won't simply look down here through their convoluted glasses and see that at one point we gave free download links to what they're trying to sell, and base us on that.. and potentially attempt or threaten legal action. They are "The Man", and it's always helpful to be in good terms with the people who can either give you what you want and listen to what we have to say, or cast our voice out as that of the enemy. Mike has worked hard to establish good terms with FUNimation (erm, re-establish

), and honestly it does pay in the end.

SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:What makes you guys so sure its DragonBallKaiHD? What has he done to provoke this? I mean I'm fairly new here so whats stopping Gokuden from being me or anyone else on this forum?

He supposedly admitted it over on his forum, and his mannerisms and persistence fit the bill.

alakazam^ · Post by **alakazam^** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:52 pm

I think using Keyhole TV to watch Japanese TV makes it perfectly legal.

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:27 pm

alakazam^ wrote:I think using Keyhole TV to watch Japanese TV makes it perfectly legal.

Yep, there's not denying that. The "problem" accures when fan-subs enter the picture.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:24 am

Forgive my ignorance here, but what exactly about the fan subs would make it cross the line into no-no territory? I watch Kai raw anyway so I can't speak to the quality or legitimacy of the subs but if some fans are subbing the episodes free of charge how does it make it any worse than before?

Is it that these groups also have their hands in other illegal dealings (selling bootlegs) at the same time?

-Mike

DragonBalllKaiHD · Post by **DragonBalllKaiHD** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:32 am

SSj_Rambo wrote:He supposedly admitted it over on his forum, and his mannerisms and persistence fit the bill.

I never did that to begin with. And his English style is different from mine. Also, I don't thin anyone paid any attention to what I said: I'm not him. Period. End of story. I am not a member of any forum except Daizex. I don't even know who he is except that he uploaded the Dragon Box footages on YouTube. That's it. Absolutely no connection between me and him.

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:59 am

RoarkVegeta wrote:Anyways, was the correct episode preview put up?

I'm not sure, but the one for episode 15 has not been taken down. I guess they just decided to save themselves the trouble of putting it up later... or they really don't double check their work.

DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:
SSj_Rambo wrote:He supposedly admitted it over on his forum, and his mannerisms and persistence fit the bill.
I never did that to begin with. And his English style is different from mine. Also, I don't thin anyone paid any attention to what I said: I'm not him. Period. End of story. I am not a member of any forum except Daizex. I don't even know who he is except that he uploaded the Dragon Box footages on YouTube. That's it. Absolutely no connection between me and him.

Alright, I respect that. There has been no solid proof that you are him (presented to me at ), and I won't judge you as that person until I see that solid proof. If you truly are not him, than I deeply apologize to you on behalf of everyone here that jumped to conclusions. I was not saying you are him, I was just showing him what he asked to see.

Tekkaman-James · Post by **Tekkaman-James** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:16 am

Mike wrote:Forgive my ignorance here, but what exactly about the fan subs would make it cross the line into no-no territory? I watch Kai raw anyway so I can't speak to the quality or legitimacy of the subs but if some fans are subbing the episodes free of charge how does it make it any worse than before?

Is it that these groups also have their hands in other illegal dealings (selling bootlegs) at the same time?

-Mike

It's pretty simple, really. It goes back to the old phrase, "Why pay for the cow when you can get the milk for free?" If a fan-sub group is releasing the show for free download with English subtitles, this means less people are likely to purchase a potential home-release from FUNimation.

On top of that, FUNimation pays a hefty sum of money to Toei in order to have exclusive rights to produce an English version of the DragonBall anime property. Anyone else who is offering such a product, even if it is for free, is creating a conflict of interest for FUNimation. Because of that, they have every right to pursue legal action against any and all fan-subbers who host/share any translations of DragonBall products.

So, whether the fan-subbers are selling their translations in the form of bootlegs, or simply offering them for free download, it is still in violation of the legal agreement that FUNimation has with Toei.

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:27 am

And it isn't Fansubs so much as it's Bootlegging of the series in ANY Form, which includes Downloading RAW files.

The DaizEX Staff knows we all see the show one way or another through these means, they (Or should I say He, just referring to Mike?) Just doesn't want us going around telling people how to find the files because he doesn't want the site to appear as though it supports Bootlegging in any format, which includes Digital Piracy and Bootlegging.

Taku128 · Post by **Taku128** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:13 am

Tekkaman-James wrote:
Mike wrote:Forgive my ignorance here, but what exactly about the fan subs would make it cross the line into no-no territory? I watch Kai raw anyway so I can't speak to the quality or legitimacy of the subs but if some fans are subbing the episodes free of charge how does it make it any worse than before?

Is it that these groups also have their hands in other illegal dealings (selling bootlegs) at the same time?

-Mike
It's pretty simple, really. It goes back to the old phrase, "Why pay for the cow when you can get the milk for free?" If a fan-sub group is releasing the show for free download with English subtitles, this means less people are likely to purchase a potential home-release from FUNimation.

On top of that, FUNimation pays a hefty sum of money to Toei in order to have exclusive rights to produce an English version of the DragonBall anime property. Anyone else who is offering such a product, even if it is for free, is creating a conflict of interest for FUNimation. Because of that, they have every right to pursue legal action against any and all fan-subbers who host/share any translations of DragonBall products.

So, whether the fan-subbers are selling their translations in the form of bootlegs, or simply offering them for free download, it is still in violation of the legal agreement that FUNimation has with Toei.

I fail to see how downloading raws is any better. Instead of potentially stealing FUNimation's profit you're potentially stealing Toei's. Additionally, you could turn the subtitles off on FUNimation's release and basically have the same experience the raws provide.

SparkyPantsMcGee · Post by **SparkyPantsMcGee** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:12 pm

Tekkaman-James wrote: It's pretty simple, really. It goes back to the old phrase, "Why pay for the cow when you can get the milk for free?" If a fan-sub group is releasing the show for free download with English subtitles, this means less people are likely to purchase a potential home-release from FUNimation.

On top of that, FUNimation pays a hefty sum of money to Toei in order to have exclusive rights to produce an English version of the DragonBall anime property. Anyone else who is offering such a product, even if it is for free, is creating a conflict of interest for FUNimation. Because of that, they have every right to pursue legal action against any and all fan-subbers who host/share any translations of DragonBall products.

So, whether the fan-subbers are selling their translations in the form of bootlegs, or simply offering them for free download, it is still in violation of the legal agreement that FUNimation has with Toei.

You know whats sad, if Funimation were to peruse these people who provide the subs, many fans would view Funi as the bad guy. So for Funimation, situations like this are a lose lose no matter what you do.

Puto · Post by **Puto** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:50 pm

Tekkaman-James wrote:
Mike wrote:Forgive my ignorance here, but what exactly about the fan subs would make it cross the line into no-no territory? I watch Kai raw anyway so I can't speak to the quality or legitimacy of the subs but if some fans are subbing the episodes free of charge how does it make it any worse than before?

Is it that these groups also have their hands in other illegal dealings (selling bootlegs) at the same time?

-Mike
It's pretty simple, really. It goes back to the old phrase, "Why pay for the cow when you can get the milk for free?" If a fan-sub group is releasing the show for free download with English subtitles, this means less people are likely to purchase a potential home-release from FUNimation.

On top of that, FUNimation pays a hefty sum of money to Toei in order to have exclusive rights to produce an English version of the DragonBall anime property. Anyone else who is offering such a product, even if it is for free, is creating a conflict of interest for FUNimation. Because of that, they have every right to pursue legal action against any and all fan-subbers who host/share any translations of DragonBall products.

So, whether the fan-subbers are selling their translations in the form of bootlegs, or simply offering them for free download, it is still in violation of the legal agreement that FUNimation has with Toei.

Considering that the moment FUNimation releases their DVDs, pirates will be ripping it and uploading it online anyway, I don't see what's different between that and fansubs.

B · Post by B » Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:52 pm

They're both problems. I don't see what you're getting at.

Puto · Post by **Puto** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:56 pm

FUNimation isn't going to lose money from fansubs, because even if fansubs don't exist, as soon as they release their product, pirates will be putting it online anyway, which means that if someone really wants to get it for free without caring for the unethicalness of it, they will.

B · Post by B » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:00 pm

Puto wrote:FUNimation isn't going to lose money from fansubs, because even if fansubs don't exist, as soon as they release their product, pirates will be putting it online anyway, which means that if someone really wants to get it for free without caring for the unethicalness of it, they will.

... They're going to lose money either way.

If someone does not purchase the series and watches the fansubs, FUNi gets no money.
If someone locates DVD rips of FUNimation's dub/subs, FUNi gets no money. Sure, it's not as much as fansubs, because someone went out and purchased a copy, but then they put it online for millions of others to see for free.

Puto · Post by **Puto** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:18 pm

That's the thing; What I'm saying is that the existance of fansubs isn't going to cause FUNimation to lose more money than they'd lose anyway because of piracy.

Jurik · Post by **Jurik** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:02 pm

Puto wrote:That's the thing; What I'm saying is that the existance of fansubs isn't going to cause FUNimation to lose more money than they'd lose anyway because of piracy.

You're right Puto, is weird call you like that because in Mexico Puto means something very offensive.

I hope Funimation didn't sub Dragon Ball KAI...

SparkyPantsMcGee · Post by **SparkyPantsMcGee** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:32 pm

Puto wrote:That's the thing; What I'm saying is that the existance of fansubs isn't going to cause FUNimation to lose more money than they'd lose anyway because of piracy.

well....technically they do. If you look at it in a weird sort of light. If someone was to take Funimation's product and distribute it illegally, FUNi would still get money from the copy getting ripped(they would still lose a lot of money but someone would have to buy a copy to distribute.

Now with fansubs...especially with Kai, the product is getting ripped from television(well I don't know how it works but I'm assuming the source is television). Since it is being ripped from a free broadcasting source, where anyone in Japan can watch it provided they have cable, both Toei and later funimation lose money.

Long story short...if you were to rip Kai, sub it and distribute it no one gets a profit. If you were gonna rip the dubs both companies receive at least a tiny(a very tiny) profit from it.

a lot of that is rambling and if it doesn't make sense sorry....it made sense in my head.

Puto · Post by **Puto** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:35 pm

No, because even when fansubs exist, someone ALWAYS buys the official product and rips it when it comes out.

YouTube · Post by **Hujio** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:44 pm

@VegettoEX: I posted it on the first page, but you must not have noticed. The date for this episode should be 28 June 2009, not the 27th.

Tanooki Kuribo · Post by **Tanooki Kuribo** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:40 pm

I found an extremely sloppy cut in this episode. It's the scene where they decided to change Gohans facial expression from happy to surprised...

It seems his old expression flashes on the screen for a brief second...

Edit: Well, after watching it 3 times in a row, this was probley intended as Gohan actually makes a sound when he does it. It just looks weird to me... Anyone else find it odd?

Kanzenshuu

Kai Episode 13 (27 June 2009)

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