CNN: Anime, Pirating & The Economy (with DBZ)

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:46 am

Yes, this includes Dragon Ball Z, and Toei Animation. They talk about DBZ in the history of anime section at the end and show footage from Movie 1 ^_^
(And since over half of you like it, One Piece is here too).

Man, just to let you guys know. The guy makes $9,600 a year and works 10-12 hours almost every day. The poverty line in USA is $20,000 a year, which is over half of what the in-between animator makes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YYJ5DiIrn0

linkdude20002001 · Post by **linkdude20002001** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:04 am

Woah! The news lady pronounced Son Gokuh correctly!

DominatorLost · Post by **DominatorLost** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:27 am

Really makes you feel guilty about downloading.

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:31 am

DominatorLost wrote:Really makes you feel guilty about downloading.

Yeah, it does. Boy. Pretty cool CNN did this.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:34 am

Well, not everybody has the money to give for manga/anime.

There are lots of people you wouldn`t see or read any or most of the manga/anime that they download because they wouldn`t be able to afford it otherwise.

And even if they can afford it, there are also lots of people who are not willing to spend that amount of money on that manga/anime, and who would rather not see/read it instead of paying. They only watch/read it because they don`t have to pay.

In those situations, the author is not losing any money because those people wouldn`t buy it anyhow.

They only lose money when someone can afford the anime/manga and is willing to spend that money to get it, but they become satisfied with just the downloads (because if they download it but they buy it nonetheless, then the author is also not losing any money).

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:38 am

rereboy wrote:Well, not everybody has the money to give for manga/anime.

There are lots of people you wouldn`t see or read any or most of the manga/anime that they download because they wouldn`t be able to afford it otherwise.

And even if they can afford it, there are also lots of people who are not willing to spend that amount of money on that manga/anime, and who would rather not see/read it instead of paying. They only watch/read it because they don`t have to pay.

In those situations, the author is not losing any money because those people wouldn`t buy it anyhow.

The problem isn't the people who can't afford it. Its the people who can but don't want to because they're lazy asses and think they're cool by watching it free and all.

It's like Obama Girl, she made a huge deal over Obama yet never bothered to go vote for him.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:41 am

Yes, I agree. (I edited the previous comment by the way).

I was just clarifying that this matter is complex and that the author doesn`t lose money everytime someone downloads his work.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:43 am

rereboy wrote:In those situations, the author is not losing any money because those people wouldn`t buy it anyhow.

That's a pretty poor excuse (specifically the 'they wouldn't buy it either way, so it's okay for them to get it for free'). Especially if after reading/watching it for free, they then have their fill of it and have no desire to buy it when they do have the money.

Edit:

rereboy wrote:Yes, I agree. (I edited the previous comment by the way).

I was just clarifying that this matter is complex and that the author doesn`t lose money everytime someone downloads his work.

This much is true, though. It's complicated.

Vashkey · Post by **Vashkey** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:45 am

Not being able to afford a luxury doesn't give you the right to steal it.

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:45 am

rereboy wrote:Yes, I agree. (I edited the previous comment by the way).

I was just clarifying that this matter is complex and that the author doesn`t lose money everytime someone downloads his work.

Well, again, thousands of people worked on Dragon Ball/Z (the anime). If Akira Toriyama was the only one working on the series, yeah, it doesn't work, but when you have to pay so many people, it becomes a problem.

AND, AND, keep in mind, Tokyo is one of the world's most expensive cities. I've heard a cup of orange juice can be sold at like $15 there. Which means their pay is even lower than it seems

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:46 am

Bussani wrote:
rereboy wrote:In those situations, the author is not losing any money because those people wouldn`t buy it anyhow.
That's a pretty poor excuse (specifically the 'they wouldn't buy it either way, so it's okay for them to get it for free'). Especially if after reading/watching it for free, they then have their fill of it and have no desire to buy it when they do have the money.

And exactly where did I say that it was okay for them to download it?

I was just clarifying a misconception that people have.

Losing money is not the sole purpose of why it is illegal to download or acquire copyrighted material, you know? (outside the legal ways of course)

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:53 am

Vashkey wrote:Not being able to afford a luxury doesn't give you the right to steal it.

That's true. But people who watch it for free because they can't afford it doesn't really hurt the industry as much as the people who can afford it because they wouldn't (couldn't) buy it anyways.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:54 am

rereboy wrote:
Bussani wrote:
rereboy wrote:In those situations, the author is not losing any money because those people wouldn`t buy it anyhow.
That's a pretty poor excuse (specifically the 'they wouldn't buy it either way, so it's okay for them to get it for free'). Especially if after reading/watching it for free, they then have their fill of it and have no desire to buy it when they do have the money.
And exactly where did I say that it was okay for them to download it?

I was just clarifying a misconception that people have.

Losing money is not the sole purpose of why it is illegal to download or acquire copyrighted material, you know? (outside the legal ways of course)

Fair enough, and I wasn't accusing you. But all your post said was "the artist isn't losing money so long as people who could/would pay for it do". It sounds like the excuse, "I don't like it enough to pay for it, so I'm not hurting anyone by downloading it." It's just an excuse -- if you really didn't like it that much, you wouldn't be curious enough to read it. If you're that curious, then it's done it's job in getting your attention and the right thing to do would be to pay.

Again, not accusing you yourself. Just the imaginary people who think that way.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:17 am

You failed to grasp what I was trying to say, thats all

. And I understood your logic.

I will explain better:

It will always be wrong to benefit from someone`s hard work without giving them compensation for it, especially when that work is something copyrighted and therefore protected under law.

But that doesn`t mean that all the situations have the same monetary consequences to the author and to the companies that distribute his or her work.
There are people from who the author and the companies won`t receive any compensation for the product, no matter what happens. But some of those people still get to benefit from the product because they download it.

It is still wrong because they benefit from something they didn`t pay, but if we look at all the scenarios we realize that they would never pay for it, they would rather not have it or they can not afford it.

So we can not say that they are losing money in each download, which is a general misconception. Doesn`t make it right though.

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:39 am

Just sharing some comments from Arlong Park (One Piece) forums:

"Shit man. That is just sad, I knew animators didn't make much (which is a shame cause it's hard as shit), but I had no idea they made that little! Makes you wonder what manga artists like Oda make. I presume they're set up pretty good."

"I will never watch One Piece online again (maybe not any other Toei Anime perhaps, not sure)

I just feel so damn bad now"

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:45 am

rereboy wrote:You failed to grasp what I was trying to say, thats all . And I understood your logic.

I will explain better:

It will always be wrong to benefit from someone`s hard work without giving them compensation for it, especially when that work is something copyrighted and therefore protected under law.

But that doesn`t mean that all the situations have the same monetary consequences to the author and to the companies that distribute his or her work.
There are people from who the author and the companies won`t receive any compensation for the product, no matter what happens. But some of those people still get to benefit from the product because they download it.

It is still wrong because they benefit from something they didn`t pay, but if we look at all the scenarios we realize that they would never pay for it, they would rather not have it or they can not afford it.

So we can not say that they are losing money in each download, which is a general misconception. Doesn`t make it right though.

I grasped all of this. Again, I wasn't accusing you of saying it was okay. It just reminded me of these other situations.

xzero · Post by **xzero** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:27 am

With respect to downloading, I think there are two groups of people in the anime downloading community. The first are not a problem; they download the episodes, keep them until they become available to purchase on DVD or otherwise, and then delete them. It's tantamount to Tivo-ing.

The other group, those who download and keep them forever, or worse, download them, sell them, and profit for doing nothing are the actual problem. This is how money is prevented from getting back to those responsible for bringing out a series.

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:28 am

xzero wrote:With respect to downloading, I think there are two groups of people in the anime downloading community. The first are not a problem; they download the episodes, keep them until they become available to purchase on DVD or otherwise, and then delete them. It's tantamount to Tivo-ing.

The other group, those who download and keep them forever, or worse, download them, sell them, and profit for doing nothing are the actual problem. This is how money is prevented from getting back to those responsible for bringing out a series.

But the thing is, the second group is FAR larger than the first group.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:51 pm

The Time Traveller · Post by **The Time Traveller** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:57 pm

Once I have a good job, I'd actually start buying Japanese DVDs of stuff that's not out here, the economy and anime industry neeeeeds us, and buying overpriced japanese imports of shit we won't see for decades is a good way to help, like people who buy Dragon Box singles new.

I'd like to get stuff like Gash Bell and the "Lupin the Box" and Gundam box sets.