Was The Buu Saga Really That Bad?

ultimatedbzfan · Post by **ultimatedbzfan** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:46 pm

It's been a while since I've posted on this website. So, I've decided to come back and ask a question that's been bugging me for two years straight now. Why was the Buu Saga not well received as the Frieza and Cell Sagas? Was it because of the lackluster fast paced battles? Was it the because of the story? Was it because Buu was a more goofy villain than his two predcessors? Or was it because Gohan got this huge build up, only to be thrown to the sharks?

SSVegetto · Post by **SSVegetto** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:59 pm

ultimatedbzfan wrote:It's been a while since I've posted on this website. So, I've decided to come back and ask a question that's been bugging me for two years straight now. Why was the Buu Saga not well received as the Freeza and Cell Sagas? Was it because of the lackluster fast paced battles? Was it the because of the story? Was it because Buu was a more goofy villain than his two predcessors? Or was it because Gohan got this huge build up, only to be thrown to the sharks?

I just thought the Freeza, and Cell arcs were way more suspenseful than the Buu saga. The villains were way more serious. And the plot made me fascinated to keep watching episode after episode.

At the time the Buu arc started. Most of the fun of DBZ was already over for me. It was fun watching Krillin, Gohan, and Bulma go into space and go to Namek. Then to see Vegeta sneak around collecting the Dragonballs, and then Ginyu force was also cool. There was a lot more fun to that.

Then the Cell Arc was also cool, it dealt with time travel and stuff, and it was interesting to see what was going on. Also, I liked the fact that Goku caught me by surprised with his plan to defeat Cell.

So when the Buu arc came around, there wasn't anymore cool villains by this time. There wasn't really anymore surprises for me.

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:02 pm

For me, it's just a matter of the fact that it doesn't end. And Goku's the hero. By the time I got to Gohan-Buu, these were my thoughts: "You've GOT to be kidding me, right? Again with this?" It was just very redundant in parts, and someone else deserved to be the hero.

Had it ended sooner it would have worked out just fine for me.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:40 pm

What I liked about the Buu saga:
- GOTEN~!

.
- Mr. Satan had a role that was useful, believable, and in character, in combat and out.
- The shocking new transformation (SSJ3) wasn't the end-all powerup like its predecessors, going all the way back to Goku's first encounter with Karin (or even Oozaru if you count that, but... eh?).
- Piccolo karate-chopped Babidi in half. 'nough said.
- (Fat) Buu was both fun and awesome, in abilities and personality and such.
- APOCALYPSE~! This is really the first fight where we're feeling the universe collapse around us. It starts off slowly at first, but most of the world is gone by the time Buu transforms, and then he finishes off the survivers... even the genocide on Namek carried less of an apocalyptic weight (to be fair, though, Freeza-tachi's slaughteng the Namekians had a far more personal feel to it). Oh, and let's be technical and say the good guys pretty much lost.
- Yeah, even though Goku had to overpower Buu with a super-powerful attack, it was an extremely strategized maneuver, the likes of which we haven't seen since the first fight with Vegeta.
- GOTEN~!

What do I dislike?
- The presumed deaths when the earth was finally destroyed.

Gohan, Goteee~en...

- Afterlife filler after Buu's transformation. Missing Yamcha Vs. Recoome right about now.

- Buu got generic and annoying after the evil one ate the good one.

I don't suppose the ending matters to me as much as the rest, heh.

I do think some of the things I like are things that most people don't care for quite as much that weren't so prevalent in previous arcs--Mr. Satan and the kids?--For people that have more of a familiarity with "ROAR SSJ POWER LEVEL MAXIMUM KAMEHAMEHA LET GO POWER!!!", the contrast might be a bit off-putting? Seeing as those are the things that make the Buu Saga stand out?
... O.O that quote-summary wasn't supposed to sound critical this time. Really!

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:42 pm

Is the Buu saga a little... superlative? Yeah, maybe. But "bad?" No, I don't think so.

Folks complain about the Buu saga "not making sense" and whatnot, but I don't think it was really supposed to. It was meant to be very silly. I get the impression that Toriyama knew he was going to actually be ending the series this time, so he just had fun with it, and let a lot of his irreverent humor and nonsensical writing from DB's early days slip back in. It makes the arc much more fun compared to the previous 'Z-era' stories.

Rod · Post by **Rod** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:16 pm

I liked it, it's one of my favorite arcs.

There's really not much for me to say

I don't know why I like it, I just do

B · Post by B » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:18 pm

In terms of the overall premise, I guess it was. It's the only true self-contained portion of the series; everything else has a backstory or something in the series leads into the next part, but the Buu arc just... happens. The series "decay," so to speak, is a tad noticeable with various plot elements, such as why Vegetto defused for no real reason, or why when Buu A is cut from Buu B we get Buu Q, when that technically makes no sense. Dragon Ball kind of always had these problems, though, so it's more Toriyama lost track/stopped caring to a greater extent than normal with this final arc, as opposed to him losing any sort of talent.

It was a great throwback to the original goofy and whimsical premise of the manga, while still incorporating the heroes' beat-'em-up tale though, so that more than makes up for a few plotholes, in my eyes.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:48 pm

It was my least favorite arc, but there were some good elements in it.

First, Buu himself (itself?) was a return to some of Toriyama's humor. He was both extremely threatening and somewhat endearingly silly. You know, this big kid who will kill you by turning you into candy.

Second, we finally got to see Vegeta change, and more than that, admit it. He admitted that, despite all his training, he was no match for Goku, that he hated to think of himself in the position he was in, caring about others. He tried so hard to even return to evil, even killing innocents, but ultimately sacrificed himself and later returned to help fight again. He didn't become an entirely different person, but he definitely changed, and I liked it.

Third, we had Piccolo train more children, Goten and Trunks, and seeing his frustration with Gotenks was also quite humorous.

Fourth, Mr. Satan and Buu. Those moments were priceless. And Mr. Satan actually helped save the world. That's pretty impressive for a guy who really, when compared to most of the other characters, is nothing in a fight. Hell, he did more than Kuririn ever accomplished.

Fifth, Kuririn has hair! Hair! On! Kuririn!

And finally, the finale. I love that Goku just heads off with Uub to train, selfishly, for his own desires. That's the way Goku is. It was one of those classic Goku moments. The other characters comment on how Goku is always thinking of himself, but Piccolo sees that Goku has never looked happier, and it makes me happy to see Piccolo glad for him.

Of course there were a lot of issues with it. The mechanics of fusing, Gohan losing his position as the Earth's new hero to his father, Earth blowing up (just rubbed me the wrong way!), lots of characters just being utterly ignored, and it going on way too long were some of my issues with the arc. Thus it's my least favorite arc in the series.

But it wasn't horrible. It was certainly better than anything in GT.

Ultimate_DB_Fan · Post by **Ultimate_DB_Fan** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:50 pm

After viewing the entire Buu saga via the orange bricks, my feelings have always been possitive. The reasons being...?

1) I like how things just start out-of-the-blue. Everyone's meant to just participate in a regular tournament, but there's really unknown things happening behind the scenes. I bet that folks over in Japan had no idea what the M stood for in Spopovich's head, and why him and his partner looked the way that they did.

2) If I'm not mistaken, I believe the Boo saga is the longest arc out of them all, which is cool.

3) During the arc, there's just SO much freakin' stuff that occurs; Goku turning SSJ3, Boo transforming to all the stages that he does, Vegetto coming into the picture, getting the sense that the entire cosmos is in danger, Goku, Gohan and Vegeta fighting those warriors in Babidi's ship, Piccolo and the rest turning to stone and then when they wake up, they have no clue as to what's been going on.

Having said all that, though, I've always held the belief that Super Boo was the better Boo, in that he was the one who had better motivation and personality.

Senzu_Bean · Post by **Senzu_Bean** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:03 am

Was The Buu Saga Really That Bad?

Of course not. It is simple more goofy and comic than the other Z-arcs. It isn't by no means "bad".

Adamant · Post by **Adamant** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:43 am

Ultimate_DB_Fan wrote:
2) If I'm not mistaken, I believe the Boo saga is the longest arc out of them all, which is cool.

Depending on which episodes you count as being part of which arc, both the Freeza, Cell and Buu arcs can be "the longest". Arc divisions aren't set in stone.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:19 am

Is the Buu arc bad? Hell no. The Buu arc is the best arc of Dragon Ball Z, IMHO. The series got way too serious for my liking in the Freeza saga, and that continued through the Cell saga. The Cell saga is an uninspired mess, Toriyama was pushed to make all kinds of changes and it shows through. The villain is boring and generic. The story just goes through the motions and nothing new or interesting happens. All of the interesting characters are pushed to the side in favor of a crybaby, an asshole, an idiot, and a Mr. Satan. The Mr. Satan filler is almost as bad, if not worse, than the Freeza saga filler.

The Buu saga is the best because it brings back the magic and humor that the series started with. It starts out returning to it's roots with a Tenkaichi Budokai, and then leads into a fun, ridiculous story with amazing transformations and some of the coolest fights and techniques of all time. And as far as filler goes, it seems like by the time Toei got to the Buu portion of the show, they really hit their stride with pacing. There were not nearly as many boring moments as the last two sagas. The Villain was generic, but they all are in their own right. Buu is a magic being who is the embodiment of evil and destruction. He's so powerful that he's not just a threat to the earth or even the Universe. Buu is a threat to all of existence. Heaven and Hell were sitting watching the fight cheering on Goku because if he didn't win, even the afterlife would be destroyed by Buu. How epic is that?

I'm baffled as to how anybody could say that the Buu saga is bad. I'd say that anybody who feels that way just doesn't get Dragon Ball.

Godo · Post by **Godo** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:25 am

Well, even if my favorite was Freeza saga, I liked Buu saga.
Cell saga was more like...meh.
In the Freeza saga at least, they knew that they were facing a horribly strong enemy, but there was this feeling that they could make it.
In Cell saga it was more like "oh, only Gohan and Goku can make it against Cell".
In Buu saga, although it was a raging Saiya-jin fest, at least there was humor to compensate. But it was still inferior to Freeza saga, which I believe was Toriyama's best arc ever.

Piccolo Daimao · Post by **Piccolo Daimao** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:14 pm

The Majin Boo Saga was never bad. It was a good saga, but it just seemed like Toriyama had just gotten a bit bored with some of the magic that he had included in the likes of Freeza Saga & Cell Saga. There just wasn't as much suspense or tension, the introduction of yet another Super Saiyan stage when we all thought it was the end of SSJ stages with the appearance of Super Saiyan 2 (the true ascended form of Super Saiyan) just made the once spectacular legend of Super Saiyan that Vegeta had been constantly going on about it look worthless, and the plotholes that made no sense, like everyone assuming that Gohan was dead when they had previously wished those who had died back to life and the ridiculous events of Super Boo turning into Kid Boo, when he really should've just turned back into Evil Boo instead. And let's not forget the multiple arguments of "Who's stronger? Super Boo or Kid Boo?" Of course, I don't blame Toriyama for those strength debates, but you can't write off the evident flaws that the Majin Boo Saga had. And then there's Gohan fighting Dabura and Fat Boo at regular Super Saiyan when he could've easily blasted the fuck out of them in Super Saiyan 2, and don't say Gohan was SSJ2, but visual evidence from the manga shows that Gohan had a regular Super Saiyan aura and there was no lightning bolts around him at that time.

Ignoring all the flaws, Boo Saga is an entertaining saga. Not bad as such. Toriyama just really felt like ending the whole series before that, and the fans pushed him into a new saga where he's forced to make Goku come back to life and become the hero again with a B.S. Spirit Bomb (as if that weak last resort could do anything against Boo now DB has Mystic Gohan an d SSJ3), despite the fact he isn't even the strongest character in the series at that time. I can still enjoy Majin Boo Saga, but it's the worst out of the 4 sagas in the DBZ series.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:32 pm

Godo wrote:Well, even if my favorite was Freeza saga, I liked Buu saga.
Cell saga was more like...meh.
In the Freeza saga at least, they knew that they were facing a horribly strong enemy, but there was this feeling that they could make it.
In Cell saga it was more like "oh, only Gohan and Goku can make it against Cell".
In Buu saga, although it was a raging Saiya-jin fest, at least there was humor to compensate. But it was still inferior to Freeza saga, which I believe was Toriyama's best arc ever.

You know, I think you've got something, here. (*doesn't pick favorites... for now*).
I've noticed, especially with the Manga Review of Awesomeness, that the Android/Jinzouningen/Cell arc... ur... isn't actually all that interesting compared to the preceeding material.
There are interesting elements, certainly--energy absorbtion, the first time we see a villain absorbing other characters (which are villains, and he "needs" to absorb them), and there are moments that try to go for more of a sci-fi sollution (Meh, Krillin.).
But really, I think the tension in the Cell Saga is inherently time-linked. Without that warning from Trunks, then a break (Manga chapters coming out, episodes being aired, etc), the tension is greatly reduced.
But even if the arc succeeds at suspense and adds interesting details, its sole contribution to the world at large is Mr. Satan. There are some pretty closed character arcs at the end, sure, but we don't really have anything new on DBEarth, nothing in the universe, nor the cosmos at large; we had expansion out the wazu (or waza, even) in every preceeding Arc, and in the Buu saga and some might argue the Bebi part of GT.
But eh, without the dire future element, the Cell arc might as well have been a movie. Granted, pretty creative by DBZ movie standards, but yeah.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:36 pm

I like the story itself when reading the comics. It's the pacing in the anime that bothered me. There's about as many episodes of the Boo arc as there are comic chapters of the Boo arc. That's just way too slow for me.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:21 pm

The Buu Saga is bad for two reasons.

1: There's too many new things that all add up to absolutely dick.

-Goten and Trunks have absurd amounts of power...but never do anything with it.
-A whole new level of the godly heirarchy is introduced with Supreme Kai...but he does so little even Goku busts his balls.
-Goku and Vegeta have reached SSj2...but SSj2 is immediately made useless.
-Goku's gone even further and reached SSj3...but SSj3 is worse than useless.
-Fusion Dance and its backstory is introduced...but Gotenks doesn't do anything.
-The Z Sword/Elder Kai/Mystic Gohan chain introduces lots...but none of it changes anything.
-Another type of Fusion, the unbreakable Potara shows up...but Kibitokai does fuck-all and Vegetto is destroyed by a completely bullshit reason.
-Buu goes through a thousand forms...but ends up in the one he began as.
-Goku and Vegeta died in noble sacrifices, each for the second time...but Goku gets a literal deus ex machina so he can come back while Vegeta gets upgraded from "bad guy" to 'good guy' by getting his ass whupped by Kid Buu.
-And in the end, the final blow is dealt by base Goku using a technique he learned in the Saiyan Saga.

2: All the tension does not come from Buu being a geniune threat, but by the heroes being SO GODDAMN STUPID.

-Supreme Kai decides that giving Buu a whole bunch of free energy is a good idea.
-Vegeta decides to work for Babidi because he cannot wait for the couple of hours it would take to kill Babidi before he gets to fight Goku.
-Goku threatens to murder the highest-ranking deity in the universe if he doesn't get out of the way and let him fight Vegeta.
-Vegeta knocks Goku out and goes to fight Buu alone.
-Goku decides not to destroy the monster that (he believes) killed his son even though he could, because he'd rather throw two children who've never had a day of serious combat in their lives at it.
-Goten decides that it would be better to play around with the beast who killed his mother right in front of him.
-Trunks suggests doing just that.
-Gotenks, even after Buu had eaten or killed everybody in his family/he's ever known/the entire population of the Earth, spends his entire time fucking off.
-Goten and Trunks fall into the trap of Super Buu and get absorbed.
-Gohan can catch bullets, but cannot catch an earring.
-Vegetto decides to get absorbed rather than simply destroy Buu and bring Piccolo and the kids back with the Dragonballs.
-Vegeta and Goku crush the earrings twice rather than become Vegetto again.
-Goku and Vegeta decide to fight alone instead of fusing with the dance.
-Goku and Vegeta decide to use the Spirit Bomb instead of fusing with the dance while Fat Buu fights Kid Buu.
-Goku and Vegeta decide to use the Spirit Bomb instead of bringing Gotenks or Mystic Gohan to fight.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:44 pm

Rocketman, it sounds like you're faulting a lot of characters for simply being themselves.

Hellspawn28 · Post by **Hellspawn28** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:49 pm

It's one my favortie arc like next to the Freeza, and Sayain arc. I enjoy it much more then the Cell arc IMHO.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:37 pm

penguintruth wrote:Rocketman, it sounds like you're faulting a lot of characters for simply being themselves.

How so?

Kanzenshuu

Was The Buu Saga Really That Bad?

Was The Buu Saga Really That Bad?

Re: Was The Buu Saga Really That Bad?