Rule (grammar, specifically) non-compliance

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:03 pm

There have been several members lately who completely ignore the forum rules, the hints with the bold-red, and also warning PMs when it comes to typing properly.

Now, contrary to outside popular belief, we don't actually go around banning people left-and-right because of this. Quite frankly, a minuscule number of people have ever been banned at all, nevermind for the grammatical non-compliance.

What do you think we should do about this? Even with additional moderators, we just don't need to be wasting our time correcting every single last post some of these people make in the off-chance they'll actually take the damn hint. I don't want to necessarily BAN THEM, either (though it may come to that).

What are the thoughts on a custom title along the lines of "I refuse to type properly even after multiple warnings"...? Other suggestions? Or should we just play the role we apparently plan and ban them after repeated warnings?

Not that I belief anyone HERE would suggest it, but no, we are never taking away the rule that you are expected to type properly while you are here ^_~.

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:15 pm

VegettoEX wrote:What are the thoughts on a custom title along the lines of "I refuse to type properly even after multiple warnings"...?

You do seem to be such a nice guy and only ban as a last resort, so I think this would probably be the only thing after constantly correcting spelling and sending warning PMs...

I don't want to sound stupid, but would there be a way to temporarily ban someone who has repeatedly violated the rule(s)? Say, someone created about 7 posts filled with red text in a short period of time, and they get banned for a week as a result? I've only ever seen anyone banned permanently here... Maybe that could give them time off to (hopefully) come back as a better person? If they still continue to violate the rules, then sadly, perma-banning may be the only thing left in the reservoir of moderation...

I am no moderator (on any site!:P) so I don't quite know how this stuff works...

VegettoEX wrote:Not that I belief

I see what you did there!

I'm glad this forum has a grammar rule... It makes it hard to go to other ones because it can be quite an arduous task to try and comprehend some of the posts!

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:16 pm

VegettoEX wrote: Not that I believe anyone HERE would suggest it, but no, we are never taking away the rule that you are expected to type properly while you are here ^_~.

Sorry. I had to.

Anyhow, while I understand you don't want to do any bannings, a sort of three-strikes rule (which would apply to the entire spectrum of rules, rather) might come in handy. Of course, this might entail having to keep a detailed record available to all staff in charge of such (likely on a staff-only viewable forum section), but that might actually just wind up killing off half the newcomers you get.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:26 pm

I agree that lack of spelling and grammar are probably offenses least worthy of banning out of all. I think that should only be resorted to if it becomes spitefully purposeful instead of just neglectful. Like, "I'm noT gunna type rite if I dont want 2! you cant maek me!!!1!" That sort of thing.

But if we keep telling them, and they continue to just ignore it, I agree that either a temp-ban or denial of some privileges might be a good way to deal with it. I don't know how much specific control Mike has over what people can or cannot do. But maybe something like preventing them from creating threads, or a posts-per-day limit, or whatever? I do like the idea of a custom "rUlebraeker" title. Sort of a internet-equivalent of a Scarlet Letter!

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:32 pm

I've definitely done temporary bans before. Maybe if I have to temp-ban someone, the custom title for the duration of it...? (Other than the current custom title of "Temporarily Banned")

And yeah. Typo. Working on very little sleep. The ironing is delicious.

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:37 pm

VegettoEX wrote:I've definitely done temporary bans before. Maybe if I have to temp-ban someone, the custom title for the duration of it...? (Other than the current custom title of "Temporarily Banned")

Maybe if it's for spelling, then something along the lines of "T3mperary band lolzz!"

But that is likely pushing it...

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:42 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
And yeah. Typo. Working on very little sleep. The ironing is delicious.

...Not going...to make...joke...

I'm not quite sure how well temp-bans will work. Obviously they've ignored the initial pleads for compliance, and if they're still new, they might not be espicially tied to this forum that they would return when they were off the hook. Then there's the thick headed ones that will just return and keep screwing 'round regardless.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:46 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:
And yeah. Typo. Working on very little sleep. The ironing is delicious.
...Not going...to make...joke...

I'm fairly certain that were intentional.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:47 pm

Innagadadavida wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:
And yeah. Typo. Working on very little sleep. The ironing is delicious.
...Not going...to make...joke...
I'm fairly certain that was intentional.

Ah, well in that case...life goes on~!

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:10 pm

Innagadadavida wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:
And yeah. Typo. Working on very little sleep. The ironing is delicious.
...Not going...to make...joke...
I'm fairly certain that were intentional.

SIMPSONS DID IT.

Another thing to think about, morally, is that some of these people aren't necessarily doing it on purpose or out of laziness. Even if English is your first language, there's no rule saying you have to be a certain age to be a member here, right? If I posted here back when I was 14, my spelling and grammar would probably be atrocious.

Saying 'try harder or you're banned' seems a bit harsh if they're already trying their best. The question is, where do you draw a line?

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:28 pm

There's a language barrier, on occasion - not saying this is always the case. My question is, what happens to the foreign members who actually try to speak English but aren't so good at it?

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:19 pm

Obviously leeway can and should be given to our less than native speakers of the tongue, but there's always Word if you aren't entirely confident [rather, for those who are native English speaks, mainly].

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:36 pm

What I do for my own forum--and what I suggested to you before--is a validation system for new members. Upon registration, a prospective member could write a short post introducing themselves, stating why they're here, and generally providing an example of how well they can type. People who are lacking can be corrected before they post on the boards, and those who can type and express themselves properly will get validated speedily without any issue.

Personally, I find it to be one of the best forum systems I've ever worked with. Makes it much easier to make sure members are up to the standards you have set without cluttering up the boards in the interim. Highly recommended!

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:44 pm

I personally think that's a bit snooty though. Why I'm here, how well I can type - you shouldn't need to type up a job ap to go to a public forum.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:45 pm

bkev wrote:I personally think that's a bit snooty though. Why I'm here, how well I can type - you shouldn't need to type up a job ap to go to a public forum.

No offense, but Daizex is pretty snooty as is. I love the hell out of this place, but it's the truth. Just Saiyan.

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:49 pm

OH NO, not more puns! I'm stayin' outta this one, I don't want no temp ban.

Well, we're snooty to a certain extent. But why be more so? Just proving the point of people who use that against us.

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:51 pm

bkev wrote:I personally think that's a bit snooty though.

If we're talking about "snooty," I'd say publicly humiliating members by pointing out their typing mistakes could be considered pretty elitist, uptight and snooty. It's interesting that people don't mind that, though; why would something like a validation system be any different? If anything, it saves the staff some effort and it helps keep the forums clean in the future. Everyone wins!

Why I'm here, how well I can type - you shouldn't need to type up a job ap to go to a public forum.

Well, those were just some basic examples of things you could say in a prospective forum post. It's also not really a job application as much as it's just a general example of your grasp on the English language and overall ability to post coherently. After all, that is the issue here... I imagine our ultimate goal is to find a way to address that in the most efficient way possible.

Also, forums are private establishments purely by nature; just as Mike makes the rules and enforces them, he can choose at his discretion who has access to this forum as he pleases. The forums being publicly readable does not mean membership is--or should be--given out liberally. If this were the case, banning would not be a feasible concept in any establishment on the internet.

bkev wrote:Just proving the point of people who use that against us.

I wasn't aware we started caring about people who have nothing better to do than whine about us all day because they couldn't get into the forum, or because it didn't bend to their whim.

Big Momma · Post by **Big Momma** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:23 pm

Bussani wrote: Another thing to think about, morally, is that some of these people aren't necessarily doing it on purpose or out of laziness. Even if English is your first language, there's no rule saying you have to be a certain age to be a member here, right? If I posted here back when I was 14, my spelling and grammar would probably be atrocious.

I'm speaking for English speakers here. But even when I was 14, I could still sit down and type something properly.

I'm pretty sure Mike brought up this point first, but think of it this way: This isn't like a live chat or anything. You basically have all the time in the world to sit and type out your post. There's plenty of free time for you to look over your statement and proofread it before you post it.

Heck, that can even go for non-native English speakers to some extent.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:30 pm

The non-native English speakers are pretty much irrelevant to this conversation for two reasons:

(1) They're granted a much more lenient posting style
(2) They put way more effort into it than the native speakers I'm talking about

Seriously. If your profile says you're from Kansas and are in college and you type like you're nine years old, quite frankly, there's no excuse.

I'm wondering if the standard temp-ban is just the way we should go. They'll probably get fed up and leave or even forget to come back. Maybe that's for the best...? If they don't want to put in the effort... ya' know...?

RoarkVegeta · Post by **RoarkVegeta** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:32 pm

VegettoEX wrote:The non-native English speakers are pretty much irrelevant to this conversation for two reasons:

(1) They're granted a much more lenient posting style
(2) They put way more effort into it than the native speakers I'm talking about

Seriously. If your profile says you're from Kansas and are in college and you type like you're nine years old, quite frankly, there's no excuse.

I'm wondering if the standard temp-ban is just the way we should go. They'll probably get fed up and leave or even forget to come back. Maybe that's for the best...? If they don't want to put in the effort... ya' know...?

Very true. Hell, I know a 9 year old that can type better than some people here.

Kanzenshuu

Rule (grammar, specifically) non-compliance

Rule (grammar, specifically) non-compliance

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