Is Dragonball deeper than it looks?

Jermyn · Post by **Jermyn** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:39 am

One of the things that always really annoyed me was anime fans complaining about how Dragonball/Z has no depth compared to other manga/anime like Gundam, Fullmetal Alchemist, Code Geass, Death Note, Evangelion, Gurren Lagann, Monster, Berserk etc. Would you say diffrerent?

verto · Post by **verto** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:42 am

I do disagree, my friend says the exact same thing. He asked where the reasons for why everything was happening, character development and emotion were. I really don't understand how you can miss those things.

Post by **Herms** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:51 am

I wouldn't really say DragonBall has depth, but rather width, I suppose. That is, it has a certain complexity simply owing to how darn long it is.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:01 am

No, it's pretty much as complex as it seems.

Well, except that the Japanese version is a bit more complex than the oversimplified version you get with the dub, but it's still pretty straight-forward.

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:25 am

I do think that there are aspects to the characters that could be more deeply explored that in some cases aren't fully explained in the storyline, so yes, I think it is.

EDIT: Gah! The OP changed right after I posted. TT_TT

I'd say the difference between it and those you listed that I've seen (I haven't watched all of those series) is the level of explanation/exposition given to the characters backgrounds and to what lengths the writers choose to go inside the characters heads. The information is there in DB, its just not all revealed to the viewers/readers.

Commander_Red · Post by **Commander_Red** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:33 am

I would say that unlike those series listed, Dragon Ball began as a gag manga and evolved into a manga with a lot of fighting.
So no, definitely not as much depth.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:00 am

I agree with Herms and others. I think people get depth confused with something else sometimes.

I would disagree with people who say that Dragon Ball is nothing but fighting with no plot. Even later on when it's mostly fighting, it's still a story. But that said, it's just an action/adventure/martial arts story. There aren't any deep morals or meanings to it, at least none that dominate it.

That said, I'm sure morals and depth are where you find them. There are probably fans who have found parts of it personally thought provoking.

Rory · Post by **Rory** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:31 am

Deep? As in, FullMetal Alchemist deep?
God no, there are no underlying tones in Dragonball, it doesn't bring up questions of morality, or question the main characters motives. The character development isn't complex, it basically amounts to "Bad guy becomes good guy", and pretty much because Goku'd kick his ass if he became a bad guy again. Even the villains motives arn't explored, it's normally that they kill because they're evil. End of story.
It's a great manga, and has a great variety of characters, worlds, and that feeling of adventure.
But deep, it is not.

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:02 am

No. Dragon Ball isn't deep. However, that doesn't apply to all shows that "look" like Dragon Ball because One Piece really is.

Godo · Post by **Godo** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:16 am

Well, I guess that it's got enough depth that we are discussing it on a forum solely dedicated to Dragonball discussion, approximately 20 years later.
And all those "was Vegeta really evil" and "was Freeza really evil" threads just adds to this arguments.
Although more backstories would have given Dragonball more depth, it's just as deep it can get.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:24 am

To answer this question, just think about Akira Toriyama himself. Do you think he put depth into it? He forgot some characters existed. He was just writing a fun story and seeing how far he'd go with it. That's why plot holes exist, I'm sure they're in the manga as well. Everything else, all the theorizing and all that is fan-created. All of the arguments and logic behind who is more powerful and how someone obtained a powerup and all that, that's fan-made. I bet if you asked Akira Toriyama who was stronger Majin Buu or Goku, he'd shrug his shoulders. He said that Super Saiyan 3 Goku was the strongest fighter in all of DBZ (in an interview I read on pojo.com once...not sure about the accuracy, but bear with me). That really wasn't the case though lol

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:38 am

ShinRogafuken wrote:No. Dragon Ball isn't deep. However, that doesn't apply to all shows that "look" like Dragon Ball because One Piece really is.

...Which part of One Piece is 'deep'? It's a straight forward manga about friendship and shonen spirit.

B · Post by B » Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:36 am

Monster is the closest thing to being deep on that list, bro(note: "closest" doesn't necessarily mean it is). Get your laughbox fixed, you should've chuckled your ass off if someone told you anything on that list was deep.

Dragon Ball doesn't really have an underlying message; it has a straightforward, THIS-IS-THE-MESSAGE message at the end of the manga. It's for kids.

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:42 am

I wouldn't say it's all that deep. Definitely not deeper than your average fighting cartoon/anime.

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:00 am

Bussani wrote:
ShinRogafuken wrote:No. Dragon Ball isn't deep. However, that doesn't apply to all shows that "look" like Dragon Ball because One Piece really is.
...Which part of One Piece is 'deep'? It's a straight forward manga about friendship and shonen spirit.

In terms of the underlying World-Government plots.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:52 am

Godo wrote:Well, I guess that it's got enough depth that we are discussing it on a forum solely dedicated to Dragonball discussion, approximately 20 years later.
And all those "was Vegeta really evil" and "was Freeza really evil" threads just adds to this arguments.
Although more backstories would have given Dragonball more depth, it's just as deep it can get.

I'd say that's more to with what Herms said than intentional moral ambiguity or depth of personality. Dragonball goes on for so long and changes so much and very little seems to have been planned very far ahead of time, so it's more fiddly than deep.

Although honestly I'd say that about Evangelion too. The fiddly bit that is, not the length. It's very dense, no doubt about that, but most of the time it's just an enjoyable mess, and you wonder if the creators knew exactly what they were trying to say or if they just threw every religious symbol under the sun and some giant robots into a pot for the hell of it.

ShinRogafuken wrote:
Bussani wrote:
ShinRogafuken wrote:No. Dragon Ball isn't deep. However, that doesn't apply to all shows that "look" like Dragon Ball because One Piece really is.
...Which part of One Piece is 'deep'? It's a straight forward manga about friendship and shonen spirit.
In terms of the underlying World-Government plots.

Yeah, it's not exactly deep in the social/moral commentary department, it's just a very well layered, organised story.

Hellspawn28 · Post by **Hellspawn28** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:54 pm

I never find anything depth about the DB series and I would careless. The DB series is a series I enjoy for fun not a series made for state of art like NGE or Fullmetal Alchemist IMO.

SparkyPantsMcGee · Post by **SparkyPantsMcGee** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:03 pm

Vegeta's story is almost Shakespearean when you think about it. Here is a man who had his kingdom and race taken away from him because of Frieza and he doesn't have the strength to get it back he has to rely on someone below him to save whats left of the Saiyan Race. Frieza and his power across the galaxy can be compared to things like the Crusades or even slavery. The scouters and Friezea's inability to sense opponents can be seen as a satirical way of saying people are becoming too reliant on technology and less on their own ability. The Dragonballs can be seen in the same light too, as they start using the Dragonballs less often they start relying on their own strengths and abilities instead of wishing to make everything better.

I'm sure there is more but those were just off the top of my head. This would actually be a really fun podcast.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:07 pm

Wait...I thought Vegeta didn't really care about his people, so much as his cultural pride as being 'all mighty', or something rather?

I could be wrong, though...

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:17 pm

SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:Freeza and his power across the galaxy can be compared to things like the Crusades

...how?