Removing story mode in future DBZ fighting games

[Piccolo Daimao]

I know many of us are tired of playing through the tried-and-true DBZ storyline in DBZ fighting games years on end, and that it would be nice to have a completely new, what-if storyline in the story mode, like Shin Budokai 2.

But we're forgetting one thing. What about newcomers to the series? They may buy a DBZ fighting game, and not know the true storyline and thus be confused as to who some characters like Raditz and Freeza are. Now, I know you may say that the people who buy these games are DBZ fans anyway, but it was primarily "DBZ Ultimate 22" which got me more interested in the DBZ franchise. After that, my interest died down, but it was "DBZ Budokai 2" which revived my interest in Dragon Ball Z.

So, what about having both the original storyline and then also a what-if storyline in the story mode? And rather than having to undertake the enduring task of going from the Raditz fight through to the final battle with Kid Boo for the hundredth time, just to unlock characters and the like, characters etc could instead be unlocked in the what-if storyline of the story mode or through some other ways, like completing certain missions or gaining certain achievements.

Thoughts?

[Rory]

Arcade mode is good enough for me.

[SSJmole]

I want a new story mode. I've said before depending on which series of games there is 2 I'd like.

Burst limit series - All new story mode like the one in Burst limit but an all new story. A giant story wide what if. Where focus = hd cutscenes and good fights. really appeal to it's strengths.

Raging Blast series - A new type of story mode like Super Smash bros wii's Subspace Emissary meets sagas. Let me explain, An Adventure mode that uses the in game combat engine to play through. So you'd be beating up say frieza's soliders on namek till you get to a real fight. Real fight would be an actual vs match style while getting there = Action/beat'em up/adventure.

In that mode you'll have a dragon radar to try and find all 7 balls for wishes. Bad guys drop trophies/models like on smash bros of people from Dragonball to GT even if they are not in the game. Make it fun and unique but since every character has same controls it'd be easy to use that to create something great.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

I know what you mean, I own every Dragon Ball Z game on the Playstation 2 and playing from Raditz to Kid Boo for the 7th time can get a bit repetitive. It would be nice to get a what-if storyline like Shin Budokai 2, but I don't think the folks at Namco-Bandai are that creative to include one again.

[Hellspawn28]

Can they just do with the Godzilla games by adding a new story as long they get a good enough original idea for the game.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Can they just do with the Godzilla games by adding a new story as long they get a good enough original idea for the game.

Do you own some of them? I have Save the Earth and those games are a must have for Godzilla fans.

There have been like 20 movies and for them to make an original story after all those movies is awesome. I wish they could do the same for Dragon Ball.

[Xyex]

I'd love an original story. They could also include a 'condensed' version of the series story line, one that just covers a few important fights and summarizes the rest. For instance, you do Piccolo/Goku vs. Radtiz, Goku Vs. Vegeta, Goku Vs. Freeza, Trunks Vs. Freeza, Vegeta Vs. 18, Gohan Vs. Cell, Goku Vs. Majin Vegeta, Majin Vegeta Vs. Majin Buu, Vegetto Vs. Super Buu, and then Goku Vs. Kid Buu, and that'd be the entire Z story mode. 10 fights with the summaries being done similar to Sagas where you've got anime clips (or maybe CG scenes) with the narrator voicing over how things progress up to the in-game next battle.

The original story included would depend, largely, on what characters are included. If it's a game that covers all of Z then something after Buu but before the end of Z would work. If it's got GT in it then maybe something post GT. Or maybe someone at Bandai/Dimps/Spike/whoever else is making these things, could get in contact with Salagir and buy DBM off of him~

Or, if they want to get really creative, they could toss in a Character Creator and come up with some original story involving their usage. Supply a few 'built in' origins options for them (like being an alien who's being chased by other aliens or any slew of other possibilities). The new characters could be good or bad and by playing through the story you'd unlock everything you'd usually get in the normal story mode, and be able to improve your character (creating alternate costumes, new moves, transformations, etc).

Or, if they want to stick to the main story and not deviate too much, they could include the option to influence the course of events and change some of the outcomes. Like, say, have little 'mini-games' during certain cutscenes to alter things outside of battle. Like saving Yamcha from the Saibaman's suicide attack, for instance. And also in battle changes that occur if certain objectives are met. Like beating Nappa under a certain amount of time and with a certain move (or without using certain moves/blocking/whatever) causes him to be killed before Goku arrives, and allows Goku to arrive before anyone but Piccolo dies, thus letting you take Yamcha, Tien, and Chaotzu to Namek with you (which would be great with them, plus Krillin, Gohan, and Vegeta, Vs. the Ginyu Force in a team battle).

[Hellspawn28]

Do you own some of them? I have Save the Earth and those games are a must have for Godzilla fans.

Yes, I play most of them and even thought the story modes in that game where nothing special. I like the Supersonic warriors games where based on what if stories, and I would not mind seeing DBZ games where the main story modes are all based on what if stories.

[Kunzait_83]

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[IncompetentOverlord]

I sort of agree with Kunzait. While not a huge fighting game fan(I really only play Soul Calibur,Virtua Fighter,Capcom Vs., and the Naruto and DBZ stuff) I agree that Story Modes in Fighting Games are, in general, tacked on tripe that is just there to force the player into grinding for hours. However, I must emphasize their value to new players, not just as a primer for the story of an anime, but to help them get used to the game engine. Some may point out that arcade mode is fine for this, but that really gets tedious after awhile. As an example of a well done story mode, allow me to point out Soul Calibur 4. That game whet your appetite with a cutscene at the beginning and rewarded you with another at the end.

[Xyex]

Long winded rant.

Sorry, but I like a little entertainment with my button mashing. I play the story modes in fighting games about 10x more than I do the VS mode(s). Why? Because they're far more entertaining.

[KKZ]

A fighting game is made for fighting, not crafting a story or getting swept up in some kind of narrative; leave all that to the RPG or adventure genres where such things actually do matter.

You say that fighting games shouldn't have stories, but maybe you just haven't played a truly engrossing fighting game story mode? I sure as hell haven't. Maybe storytelling in fighting games would matter if developers were actually creative enough to write good stories for them. There has yet to be a definitive example of this, ever. All of these interesting, creative characters and settings go to waste because they're so deeply hampered by the most inane, generic plots imaginable and I find it gravely disappointing. The only fighting game game canons I've tried to intimately follow are Street Fighter and the general SNK fighting game canon (AoF, FF, KoF, Garou etc.), and even those are full of holes and are only vaguely interesting because they eventually just boil down to "which character during this time period could beat this character during this other time period" debates with a friend of mine most of the time. Pitiful.

[Kunzait_83]

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[SSJmole]

But the thing is Dragonball stuff should have a story. If you remove the story from a dragonball game you might as well play another fighting game. Dragonball is not just about fighting. It's about humour, It's about the characters, It's about the emotions, It's about WHY they fight. You can not really get this through with out a story mode.

Take Burst Limit's story mode. Seeing Goku transform into a SSJ for the first time in that was still a great moment and that makes the SSJ Goku vs Frieza fight have same feel the Manga and Show had. That "NOW we have a chance." Moment. If you remove that then the game is NOT dragon ball.

Now What if stories or all new stories can cover the feeling and the elements that make Dragon Ball actually be Dragon ball. Like raging blast, the What if's while impossible or not they still got the humour and character personalities across well (or as well as text with little movement can) we need that.

I understand the problem with "Been there done that." That's why I suggested what I did here on previous post. The Problem with "Having to play through to unlock characters." I don't get. Most fighting games have unlockable characters, From Akuma in Street Fighter IV on the ps3 to even The Green Ranger on Mighty Morphin' Power rangers back on the Mega drive/Genesis.

Hell one of the most popular fighting games this generation is Super Smash Bros. Brawl that has A) a great story mode. B) About 14 unlockable characters. It's also a really fun game that's at least 10 times better than Raging Blast the latest Dragonball game. So Story mode is not the problem.

[Kunzait_83]

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[SSJmole]

The Raging Blast series isn't a real fighter either. It's very simplistic and tries to be a simulator of DBZ. Which it wouldn't be with out ...... that's right story mode!

As for the street fighter IV and Power rangers on Mega Drive (Technically by the way that's 2 characters. Green Ranger and Dragon Zord for big fights ) were just examples. As from Mega drive to ps3 there has been A LOT of fighting games with unlockables. Personally though I hated raging blasts Star system to buy the story and costumes ect... (I found that tedious) but the playing through story mode I like. I also like the "meet certain conditions" too Like I think Legends had it where to get 16 he had to kill Goku.

However back on topic of story mode. Story mode works great in fighting games and more so in dragonball games. E.g Mortal Kombat Vs DC's story mode was pretty fun to play through. More so than it's Arcade mode. Arcade mode seems rushed to me as it's like "We cant come up with a story so here they erm ... just fight." It's boring. Story mode add the Why which makes it better.

As for

If I want all of that, I’ll just watch the actual series or read the manga.

But that is the point of licensed games. To feel like the thing they are licensed from. Like licensed sports games add the commentators, replays, the crowd responses and more to feel like the sport. A platform game based on a tv show won't be as simple as Super Mario World's just gameplay focus. Instead they need cut scenes and Music and more to feel like the show.

It's the exact same thing of DBZ fighting games. If it was only fighting it wouldn't sell as much. In fact look at Super DragonBall Z, It was simple version of street fighter with DBZ. No story mode. It didn't get put in the Platinum/greatest hits collection by Sony. Which I think is 400,000 copies sold in 9 moths. Yet Dragon Ball Z Budokai 1-3 made it. Also Budokai Tenkaichi 1-3 made it too.

Both Budokai and Budokai Tenkaichi had the focus on all aspects not just fighting. End of the day it's a business and games with all aspects are proven to do better than games with just 1. More people enjoy them and why? because then it's Dragon Ball not just some generic fighter. E.g Super DragonBall Z which was Street fighter for people who find street fighter hard.

[Kendamu]

If there is a story mode, I'd like it to be like Shin Budoukai (the first one) or the first Budoukai game with the cutscenes that go straight from battle to battle. That way, if I don't want to deal with the storyline, I can just skip while the newcomers get a general idea of what's going on. While the world map thing was really cool in Budoukai 3, I just don't feel like dealing with it again.

Then, outside of that, Arcade Mode. Similar to both Shin Budoukai games or Super DBZ, it has it's own "story" in the sense that there's a very light context to all the fights that you'll see at the very end, but it's mostly just about going from fight to fight without regards to the actual story.

[GreggMays64]

I personally love how DBZ BT3 is able to fit the important parts of the fights and by making you play as the villains if the bad guys win. I hate how they take out lots of fights.

My idea of a story mode.

Saiyan Saga
-Goku/Piccolo VS. Raditz
-Yamcha/Kuririn VS. 5 Saibamen
-Nappa VS. Chaotzu/Tenshinhan/Piccolo/Kuririn/Gohan
-Goku VS. Nappa
-Goku VS. Vegeta(Base, Oozaru)

Frieza Saga
-Vegeta VS. Dodoria
-Vegeta VS. Zarbon(Base, Form 2)
-Kuririn/Gohan VS. Gurd
-Recoom VS. Kuririn/Gohan/Vegeta
-Goku VS. Recoom
-Goku VS. Burter/Jheese
-Goku VS. Captain Ginyu
-Captain Ginyu(Goku) VS. Kuririn/Gohan
-Vegeta VS. Jheese
-Goku(Captain Ginyu) VS. Captain Ginyu(Goku)
-Frieza(Base, Form 2, Form 3, Form 4) VS. Gohan/Kuririn/Vegeta/Piccolo
-Goku(Base, SS) VS. Frieza(Form 4, Form 4 100%)

Cell Saga
-Future Trunks(SS) VS. Cyborg Frieza/King Cold
-Goku(Base, SS)/Vegeta(SS) VS. No. 19
-Piccolo VS. No. 20
-No. 17/No.18 VS. Yamcha/Tenshinhan/Piccolo/Vegeta(SS)
-Piccolo VS. Cell(Base)
-Cell(Base, Semi Perfect, Perfect) VS. No. 16/Tenshinhan/Future Trunks(SS)/Vegeta(SS)
-Goku VS. Cell(Perfect)
-Gohan(SS2) VS. 5 Cell Juniors
-Gohan(SS2) VS. Cell(Perfect, Super Perfect)

Majin Buu Saga
-Kid Trunks(Base, SS) VS. Goten(Base, SS)
-Goku/Gohan/Vegeta/Piccolo/Kuririn VS. Spopovich/Yamu
-Vegeta VS. Pui Pui
-Goku(Base, SS) VS. Yakon
-Gohan(Base, SS, SS2) VS. Dabura
-Goku(Base, SS, SS2) VS. Majin Vegeta
-Piccolo VS. Babidi
-Majin Vegeta VS. Babidi/Fat Buu
-Evil Buu VS. Fat Buu
-Gotenks(Base, SS) VS. Super Buu
-Gotenks(SS3) VS. Super Buu
-Mystic Gohan VS. Super Buu(Base, Gotenks Absorbed, Piccolo Absorbed)
-Vegetto(Base, SS) VS. Super Buu(Gohan Absorbed)
-Goku VS. Kid Buu

Yeah, thats practically my wishlist for a story mode. The only thing different about it is that you fight more people in the Majin Buu Saga, like Spopovich, Yakon, Pui Pui, Piccolo Buu.

[Kunzait_83]

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[Xyex]

Not wanting to take forever, I've limited my responses.

Your average slapped together license-based fighter (like a fair number of DBZ fighters, among other titles based on anime, comics, movies, etc.) or poorly designed clones and rip offs of better fighters, or “casual gamer-friendly” fighters? Sure, button mashers almost the whole lot of them. Something on the order of say… The Last Blade, Garou: Mark of the Wolves, Rival Schools, Virtua Fighter, and the like? If you’re playing games like those primarily by just mashing buttons, you’re doing it wrong.

I'm a Street Fighter/Virtua Fighter/Tekken/Soul Calibur fan so I know you can't just sit there and push buttons and expect to win. But what I meant by button mashing is that, unlike in most other genres, you have a VERY limited number of actions assigned to buttons. At the end of the day, no matter how fancy you get, you've seen everything that most fighting games have to offer in about 5 hours, if that. You sit there and hit the same buttons, over and over, perhaps in a different order, but in the end you get the same general result, and every situation offers only two or three viable options. Compare to something like an action game (Okami) where you've got dozens of options in any given situation, or an RPG where you've got dozens of choices for actions (Normal attacks, numerous 'special attacks', numerous 'spells' to use, not everything is offensive, etc) and you see just how limited a fighting game engine is.

There’s also the fact that a video game as a medium just isn’t a movie or a book (where narrative is the single most important aspect) and shouldn’t be treated as such. A video game is only as good or as worthwhile as its gameplay, all the more so if its an action-oriented game centered around timing, reflexes, and real-time reaction rather than passively selecting from menu options (the latter being much better suited to a more narrative-driven game). A game can have the most spectacular storyline ever written and fleshed out characters whose personalities and motivations come to life before your very eyes, and it’ll all mean absolutely dick if it all doesn’t have solid gameplay backing it up, rather than mediocre to iffy gameplay backing up a lavishly produced story.

You just can’t come at games, especially action-based games, as a primarily story-driven medium. I know that if the gameplay sucks, I simply won’t give two shits in the slightest about the storyline or characters, regardless of how well written they are. That makes all the difference in the world between an interactive medium like video games, and narrative-driven mediums like films or books and such.

You give me the best game ever made, ever, gameplay wise, but with no story or a horrible one, and I'll play through it once, beat it, and then shelve it in favor of something with crappy gameplay but a good solid story. A good story can force me through a bad game better than good gameplay can force me through a bad story. Case in point: I've played through Xenosaga II three times so far. I hate the gameplay, I like the story (for the most part). Red Faction, on the other hand, has a horrendous story and I've not even come close to finishing it yet. Games need both in quality to be truly good games. Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Hybrid Heaven, the Resident Evil series, Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Okami, the Legacy of Kain series, games like these have solid gameplay and stories and are much better off for them (and I never even touched on traditional RPGs there). There's a reason I've played Budokai 1 or Dej Jam: Fight for NY more than Super DBZ or Soul Calibur 2, for instance, and that's with the latter having a semblance of a story mode.

Give me at least a little cutscene before and after a fight explaining why X is beating up Y and I may actually care about the outcome of the fight beyond it just being part of the chore of completing the game.

I come to a game looking for lasting entertainment and no amount of quality gameplay will hold my attention for more than a few days. A solid story on the other hand, that will keep me coming back for years.

It's called "arcade mode" for a reason: that's exactly how it was played when it was in arcades. And to this day, I still get more longevity and actual fun out of playing it in that format than I do mucking around in story mode, completing an absurd number of asinine little challenges and mini games just to unlock the regular roster along with a bevy of useless crap.

And yet, arcades are dead.

Because arcade style play wasn't want the masses wanted.