Names & Phrases: Translate or Not?

[Rory]

(ADMINISTRATOR NOTE: This topic was broken off from another due to general member inability to stay on-topic. We are happy to break it off into a new topic when situations like this arise, but please remember to be courteous and stick with the actual topic at hand. It makes things a lot easier and keeps it cleaner for actual discussion! Thank you!)

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I guess it's the same as my stance on Saiyan/Saiya-Jin. I say Saiyan because my naitive language is English, it's is a nice, clean accurate translation (as long as you say it correctly), I don't know anybody who says Namek-Jin . Like Saiya-Jin, if you wanna go round sayin' Mirai, that's all fine and dandy, but it just sounds weeaboo. Yeah, I said it, and to be honest I don't care if anybody is offended, it's a dumb thing to be insulted by anyway.

ANYWAY
Loving the concepts being brought forward by this game, Gohan's book being a personal favorite of mine.

[Xyex]

Like Saiya-Jin, if you wanna go round sayin' Mirai, that's all fine and dandy, but it just sounds weeaboo. Yeah, I said it, and to be honest I don't care if anybody is offended, it's a dumb thing to be insulted by anyway.

I fail to see how using a Japanese word as a name pun is 'weeaboo'. That'd be like saying naming a new RRA character "Kuro" is weeaboo because it's a Japanese word.

[Kendamu]

Why not just call them "Gay Trunks" and "Awesome Trunks"?

Because there happen to exist people who are both gay and awesome... so it'd be too confusing.

[VegettoEX]

Why not just call them "Gay Trunks" and "Awesome Trunks"?

Inappropriate, uncalled for, and fully ban-able. Next offense = consider it done.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

I guess it's the same as my stance on Saiyan/Saiya-Jin. I say Saiyan because my naitive language is English, it's is a nice, clean accurate translation (as long as you say it correctly), I don't know anybody who says Namek-Jin . Like Saiya-Jin, if you wanna go round sayin' Mirai, that's all fine and dandy, but it just sounds weeaboo. Yeah, I said it, and to be honest I don't care if anybody is offended, it's a dumb thing to be insulted by anyway.

ANYWAY
Loving the concepts being brought forward by this game, Gohan's book being a personal favorite of mine.

Yeah if an accurate English translation of a Japanese word is availible use it, like Olibu/Olive, Nameku-seijin/Namekian etc.

Mirai directly translates to future, to use mirai when a accurate translation is availible would be like going around and using Saiya-jin and Miira-kun, it just would sound weeaboo.

[VegettoEX]

Yeah if an accurate English translation of a Japanese word is availible use it, like Olibu/Olive, Nameku-seijin/Namekian etc.

And yet every FUNimation fan runs around spouting off "Olibu" like it's nothing. Because that's what that company uses. Huh. Fancy that. Are all dub fans "weeaboos"...?

Fascinating.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Yeah if an accurate English translation of a Japanese word is availible use it, like Olibu/Olive, Nameku-seijin/Namekian etc.

And yet every FUNimation fan runs around spouting off "Olibu" like it's nothing. Because that's what that company uses. Huh. Fancy that. Are all dub fans "weeaboos"...?

Fascinating.

Yes, but FUNimation fans don't know that Olibu translates to Olive. We do; that's the difference.

[VegettoEX]

Yeah if an accurate English translation of a Japanese word is availible use it, like Olibu/Olive, Nameku-seijin/Namekian etc.

And yet every FUNimation fan runs around spouting off "Olibu" like it's nothing. Because that's what that company uses. Huh. Fancy that. Are all dub fans "weeaboos"...?

Fascinating.

Yes, but FUNimation fans don't know that Olibu translates to Olive. We do; that's the difference.

Oh, OK. So it's about knowing better and still choosing to do it that way.

<snark> So I suppose that more than justifies some of the dub-name-spelling word filters, huh? </snark>

It always just strikes of fear-of-the-unknown, to me. "Mirai Trunks" as a phrase goes back further than most of the people on this board have been into the series (and longer than some of them have been alive). If you don't carry "Mirai" in your lexicon, that means that anything you should "know better" about can't be used, or you're just a hypocrite. No "USSJ", no "zenkai", no "Tenka-ichi Budokai", etc. You should know better, right? Why is "Daimaoh" in your user name? Don't you know better, and should have signed up with a variation on "Demon Lord/King Piccolo"...?

For the record and to be totally serious, I'm not sure where I even stand on the issue... and quite honestly, it has nothing to do with DragonBall Online, so please... let's take the discussion elsewhere, OK?

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

You should know better, right? Why is "Daimaoh" in your user name? Don't you know better, and should have signed up with a variation on "Demon Lord/King Piccolo"...?

I just knew you would bring this up, anything to catch me out I guess.

"Piccolo Daimaoh" is my username, nothing more. For discussional purposes I use Demon King Piccolo which is the direct translation of the name, not "Demon Lord Piccolo" or "King Piccolo".

As for Tenkaichi Budokai, I use that term because it doesn't have a direct english translation like "Mirai" or "Daimaoh" which do.

[Xyex]

Yeah if an accurate English translation of a Japanese word is availible use it, like Olibu/Olive, Nameku-seijin/Namekian etc.

Mirai directly translates to future, to use mirai when a accurate translation is availible would be like going around and using Saiya-jin and Miira-kun, it just would sound weeaboo.

If you're talking descriptor, fine. But when you're talking a name then you use what is accurate. Murasaki directly translates to purple, but no one ever seriously calls the character "Ninja Purple".

[VegettoEX]

As for Tenkaichi Budokai, I use that term because it doesn't have a direct english translation like "Mirai" or "Daimaoh" which do.

Now it's into a "direct" word-for-word translation? "Tenka-ichi Budokai" can be translated like anything else, though. Just like "Kienzan". And Xyex's example of "Murasaki". Is it about shortening it, then? 'Cuz "Daimao" is shorter than typing "Demon Lord".

And yet this still has nothing to do with DragonBall Online; I'm officially calling this conversation as off-topic. I'm more than happy to continue it elsewhere in a more relevant topic, if you'd like.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

As for Tenkaichi Budokai, I use that term because it doesn't have a direct english translation like "Mirai" or "Daimaoh" which do.

Now it's into a "direct" word-for-word translation? "Tenka-ichi Budokai" can be translated like anything else, though. Just like "Kienzan". And Xyex's example of "Murasaki". Is it about shortening it, then? 'Cuz "Daimao" is shorter than typing "Demon Lord".

Ok, this is the final thing I will say because I am getting way off topic:

Tenkaichi Budokai roughly translates to "Strongest Under the Heavens Martial Arts Tournament" which is vague and doesn't use proper english, it doesn't have a direct translation so I use Tenkaichi Budokai. We could use "Martial Arts Tournament" but that is an incorrect translation.

As for Ninja Murasaki, we would translate it as "The Purple Ninja" unless Murasaki is his actual name then we wouldn't translate it at all, like Yamucha or Goku.

As for Kienzan, we would translate it as "Ki Circle Slicer" but attack names aren't usually translated for some reason like "Kaiohken" and "Kamehameha".

[Xyex]

Ack, EX moved it while I was making my post. Anyway~

As for Kienzan, we would translate it as "Ki Circle Slicer" but attack names aren't usually translated for some reason like "Kaiohken" and "Kamehameha".

That's because names aren't translated and Mirai, in this instance, is not a descriptor but a name and thus there is no reason to change it. It falls under the same principle as Murasaki. You simply do not translate names. Otherwise Naruto would have "Cherry Blossoms" as a team mate. It's the same as with Miira in DBM. Granted, his name is also re-ordered instead of just straight up 'Mirai' but the idea is the same. Just like how Freeza's father's name is just "Cold" and not a JPN translated equivalent of the English word.

[VegettoEX]

But now you're just making up your own inconsistent rules.

So only proper names, or phrases that otherwise act as proper names, should remain "in Japanese"? OK, cool. We've got "Kaiô" (which can be perfectly translated). We've got "Kaio-Ken" (which can be perfectly translated). We've got "Kami" (which can be perfectly translated). We've got "Kienzan" (which can be perfectly translated). We've got "Murasaki" (which can be perfectly translated). We've got "Mirai Trunks" (which can be perfectly translated). We've got "Umigame" (which can be perfectly translated). We've got "Otokosuki" (which can be perfectly translated). We've got "Gyûmaô" (which can be perfectly translated). We've got "Saichôrô" (which can perfectly translated).

There's the problem, though -- there's not a single fan that sticks with precise continuity among their own "translations" and naming schemes. There's always some little diversion.

It's not a matter of writing proper sentences with kana romanizations of English words like korudo or torankusu -- these are Japanese words that are used as proper nouns, which is something you've just admitted you do.

Seems to me you just don't like the word "Mirai".

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

That's because names aren't translated and Mirai, in this instance, is not a descriptor but a name and thus there is no reason to change it.

Correct me if I'm wrong but his name isn't Mirai Trunks Briefs. Mirai is just describing that he is from the future and can be translated unlike Yamucha which is his actual name.

So only proper names, or phrases that otherwise act as proper names, should remain "in Japanese"? OK, cool. We've got "Kaiô" (which can be perfectly translated). We've got "Kaio-Ken" (which can be perfectly translated). We've got "Kami" (which can be perfectly translated). We've got "Kienzan" (which can be perfectly translated). We've got "Murasaki" (which can be perfectly translated). We've got "Mirai Trunks" (which can be perfectly translated). We've got "Umigame" (which can be perfectly translated). We've got "Otokosuki" (which can be perfectly translated). We've got "Gyûmaô" (which can be perfectly translated). We've got "Saichôrô" (which can perfectly translated).

Exactly, only proper names not titles should be left untranslated, but attack names should be translated except Kamehameha which doesn't have a direct translation.

[nathantheguitarist]

Reading this thread made my head spin, and is why I just stick with dub names in real life, but with the exception of Tullece. Once I found out the pun to that one, I stuck with the original. But therein lies fan translation inconsistency, because I could easily use that excuse for Kuririn. I choose not to say Kuririn just because it sounds awkward to other people. Oh, and Tenshinhan.

[jjgp1112]

In general I just use the dub terminology, and if there's a phrase that goes untranslated in the dub, then I'll also use the untranslated word. Although recently, I've been alternating between Tenkaichi Budokai and World Martial Arts Tournament, as well as King Piccolo and Piccolo Daimao.

[VegettoEX]

Correct me if I'm wrong but his name isn't Mirai Trunks Briefs. Mirai is just describing that he is from the future and can be translated unlike Yamucha which is his actual name.

Well, there's no evidence to suggest that "Briefs" (or rather, Brief) is a part of his name at all, for reference's sake.

You can translate all sorts of "parts" of people's names (all the honorifics, for example). Plenty of names are formal descriptions, though, like Saichôrô and Gyûmaô. So what do you do in those cases? How about "Kaiô-sama"? Do you drop or translate the honorific, and then how do you deal with it basically being a double-"king" between the "ô" and the "-sama"?

As for the raw idea of using "Mirai", it just extends so far back in fandom (like "USSJ", if not further) that it's ingrained as standard verbiage that only hardcore FUNimation loyalists ever bat an eye at. It seems you just don't have enough familiarity with the history of the fandom and how you actually translate from Japanese.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Well, there's no evidence to suggest that "Briefs" (or rather, Brief) is a part of his name at all, for reference's sake.

I'm aware of that, I was just making a point.

You can translate all sorts of "parts" of people's names (all the honorifics, for example). Plenty of names are formal descriptions, though, like Saichôrô and Gyûmaô. So what do you do in those cases? How about "Kaiô-sama"? Do you drop or translate the honorific, and then how do you deal with it basically being a double-"king" between the "ô" and the "-sama"?

Honorifics can be dropped. They are not necessary for Japanese translation. Formal descriptions or titles can be translated like "Gyumaoh" to Ox Demon King. For "Kaioh-sama" I would drop the "sama" part and just translate it as World King, but I wouldn't because "Kaioh" is a proper name.

As for the raw idea of using "Mirai", it just extends so far back in fandom (like "USSJ", if not further) that it's ingrained as standard verbiage that only hardcore FUNimation loyalists ever bat an eye at. It seems you just don't have enough familiarity with the history of the fandom and how you actually translate from Japanese.

No, I don't have enough familiarity with the history of the "fandom" but mirai translates to future. What's not to get about that?

[Amigo Ten]

Seems to me you just don't like the word "Mirai".

Honestly, that's pretty much what I'm like. It just annoys me for some reason. But it's specifically that word, as "daimao" and such doesn't bother me nearly as much. I suppose it's because that's an actual title, and it's part of the character and the series. Future/mirai Trunks is just how fans identify which Trunks is which, and I can't understand why it ever went untranslated.