A Few Questions About The Z Senshi...

LegendarySuperSaiyan · Post by **LegendarySuperSaiyan** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:38 pm

Hi there, great site.

I have a few questions:

How strong and durable are the Z Senshi, physically? On one hand, we have Goku eventually being able to move around in one hundred times Earths gravity and Vegeta beign able to do one-fingered pushups in 450 times Earth's gravity; and yet SSJ4 Goku can barely pick up a skyscraper? That's odd; as Gohan had no problems moving a large airplance without being an SSJ at all, and anime Cell caught a large asteroid in one hand.

Also, SSJ1 Goku tried his damndest to avoid falling into the lava on Namek, and SSJ4 Goku was actually burned by a temperature of 6,000 degrees. That seems absurd; considering he has no problem touching energy that much be much hotter than that.

One last thing: there seems to also be a large contradiction in their speed. Kaiosama, who had no problems tracking Goku's faster-than-light spaceship on the way to Namek, couldn't keep up with Goku and Frieza in their fight; and yet it seems Gotenks is the first person in the series to actually go faster than light.

Can you please help clarify these things for me? Thanks.

WhatTheDarn · Post by **WhatTheDarn** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:51 pm

All of GT is non-canon.

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:09 pm

LegendarySuperSaiyan wrote:Also, SSJ1 Goku tried his damndest to avoid falling into the lava on Namek, and SSJ4 Goku was actually burned by a temperature of 6,000 degrees. That seems absurd; considering he has no problem touching energy that much be much hotter than that.

Didn't he also have a lava bath in that Snake Way thing? Haha.

LegendarySuperSaiyan wrote:One last thing: there seems to also be a large contradiction in their speed. Kaiosama, who had no problems tracking Goku's faster-than-light spaceship on the way to Namek, couldn't keep up with Goku and Freeza in their fight; and yet it seems Gotenks is the first person in the series to actually go faster than light.

Hm? When did it say Gotenks or a spaceship went faster than light? Which is supposedly impossible without instantaneous travel, I'm told.

LegendarySuperSaiyan · Post by **LegendarySuperSaiyan** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:21 pm

Basically, the ship had to have been traveling faster than light, or else Goku would have taken decades or centuries to get to planet Namek. Likewise, a friend of mine told me that Gotenks was traveling FTL due to the fact he was able to travel around the world seven times in a second in the manga {as shown by the seven lines around the Earth in the manga} when he was racing Piccolo.

But it doesn't make much sense, as a few friends on another board sat around and calculated Raditz' speed, and he had shown a speed of over two hundred miles per second all the way back in the opening of the Saiyan saga.

Oh yeah, IT is clearly hundreds of times faster than light; if it were only lightspeed, it'd take Goku years to reach Namek, even using IT.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:23 pm

Gotenks went around the Earth about 10 times in about a second (based on the fact that you could see his aura behind him still, meaning that it happened quite fast)
Light can go around the Earth 8 times in a second, I believe.

LegendarySuperSaiyan · Post by **LegendarySuperSaiyan** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:27 pm

That still seems fairly slow though, IMO. It seems to me as if the Saiyans at least should have long passed up light speed well before the Android saga, let alone the Buu saga.

I also sat around and figured up the calcs for Goku's run on Snake Way {I'm such a dork}, and it came up to about seventeen miles per second, assuming a ten hour run. It seems to me that after his training in the one hundred times gravity, the damage and healing he took on Namek, and finally going SSJ1, he should have been lightspeed during his final fight with Frieza; let alone the rest of the series.

Bobby · Post by **Bobby** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:28 pm

Wrong. Gotenks nowhere near traveled around the world even ONCE in a second. You all seem to be missing an important point. As soon as Gotenks finished his display of speed, his fusion wore off. Which meant it took Gotenks almost a full thirty minutes to travel the earth as many times as he did.

Secondly, most of those confusing situations shouldn't matter because they are filler not incorporated in the original manga. Consider all of GT nothing but filler.

And Goku traveled the Serpent Road, (off-topic, everything dealing with Princess Snake was filler, it never really happened), at a calculated speed of only about 200 miles an hour, so it seems highly implausible that Raditz can move so quickly.

*PINHEAD* · Post by ***PINHEAD*** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:30 pm

There's no use in calculating Dragon Ball; as my English teacher once told me, suspend your disbelief when reading fiction. Anywho, this IT/teleportation thing Son Goku does doesn't necessarily have a speed--it's instantaneous. Things in GT don't really make sense so there's no point in explaining it. And the energy/ki stuff isn't necessarily hot. Rather, it's the mysterious life force that can be manipulated to whatever the user wants.

Edit: Just because Gotenks' fusion wore off soon after he showed off his speed doesn't mean that it took him almost 30 minutes. The series, manga and anime, isn't always clear when it comes to time. For all we know he could've done other things in the remaining time. And as I said before, it's fiction, and in this certain case, humorous, so it shouldn't be taken literally.

Bobby · Post by **Bobby** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:36 pm

No, it means it took him almost all of thirty minutes to do it. It's cut and dry. He wouldn't be doing any other needless things if Piccolo has already stated that the first needless thing he did, IE traveling the Earth several times, has already drained away his time fused.

LegendarySuperSaiyan · Post by **LegendarySuperSaiyan** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:37 pm

Bobby wrote:Wrong. Gotenks nowhere near traveled around the world even ONCE in a second. You all seem to be missing an important point. As soon as Gotenks finished his display of speed, his fusion wore off. Which meant it took Gotenks almost a full thirty minutes to travel the earth as many times as he did.

Secondly, most of those confusing situations shouldn't matter because they are filler not incorporated in the original manga. Consider all of GT nothing but filler.

And Goku traveled the Serpent Road, (off-topic, everything dealing with Princess Snake was filler, it never really happened), at a calculated speed of only about 200 miles an hour, so it seems highly implausible that Raditz can move so quickly.

That isn't right.

One kilometer=.62 miles

Snake Way is said to be exactly one million kilometers, or 620,000 miles

Going only two hundred miles per hour, it'd take Goku one day to travel 4,800 miles; and almot two hundred days to travel Snake Way.

I'm talking about the return trip, incidentally, not his original run.

As for the return trip, if it took him a full 24 hours to run it, he'd still have to go 25,833 miles per hour, 430 miles per minute, and 7 miles per second. I'm pretty, but not totally, sure that it only took him ten hours on the return trip.

Bobby · Post by **Bobby** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:37 pm

I'm talking about his original run. His return trip back took all of 2 days. His original run took several months.

LegendarySuperSaiyan · Post by **LegendarySuperSaiyan** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:41 pm

Bobby wrote:I'm talking about his original run. His return trip back took all of 2 days. His original run took several months.

I see.

If it took him a full fourty eight hours to run it on his return trip, he'd have went 12,916 miles per hour, 215 miles per minute, and 3.5 miles per second. I thought it was only ten, but I may be wrong.

Still, SSJ1 as of the Frieza saga, going by those calculations, should be right about lightspeed.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:42 pm

Bobby wrote:Wrong. Gotenks nowhere near traveled around the world even ONCE in a second. You all seem to be missing an important point. As soon as Gotenks finished his display of speed, his fusion wore off. Which meant it took Gotenks almost a full thirty minutes to travel the earth as many times as he did.

He told Piccolo he flew around the Earth, and then took a nap.

And Goku's serpent Road speeds are:144MPH on the first trip, 12,945MPH on the second trip.

LegendarySuperSaiyan · Post by **LegendarySuperSaiyan** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:46 pm

Ah, that gives me a good way to estimate it then.

The only thing I need to know now is how much Goku increased in strength and speed between his battle with Nappa and Vegeta and his first transformation into a Super Saiyan, including his gravity training on his way to Namek and the increase his injury and healing he recieved on Namek gave him.

Any ideas?

Bobby · Post by **Bobby** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:49 pm

Yeah, and I'm fairly certain that nap thing was filler.

And yes, I realize what speed he was going.

LegendarySuperSaiyan · Post by **LegendarySuperSaiyan** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:54 pm

Actually, I'm using the anime characters in this question; for a number of reasons:

1. Basically, we're having a debate in another forum over the speeds the Z Fighters can get to, and we agreed to use the anime characters, as GT figured fairly heavily into the debate

2. I've only read the Saiyan saga and portions of the Android and Buu saga in the manga, so my knowledge of the manga isn't quite up to par, as it were.

So basically, any of the filler from the anime counts towards my question.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:55 pm

WhatTheDarn wrote:All of GT is non-canon.

If this becomes a common response/answer on my board, I'm going to be taking a few heads. This isn't the god damn IGN forum.

Bobby · Post by **Bobby** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:56 pm

I wouldn't trust filler, remember, it gave us a Cell Jr. bouncing back Vegeta's Final Flash that had early destroyed half of Cell.

LegendarySuperSaiyan · Post by **LegendarySuperSaiyan** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:02 pm

Bobby wrote:I wouldn't trust filler, remember, it gave us a Cell Jr. bouncing back Vegeta's Final Flash that had early destroyed half of Cell.

I know that the anime has quite a bit of problems in it; but really, we have to go by the anime. I'm probably the most knowledgable person on the board about DB/Z/GT, and I've only read one saga and a few portions of the others. Likewise, GT essentially *is* all filler, but it figures heavily into the debate.

Bobby · Post by **Bobby** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:04 pm

LegendarySuperSaiyan wrote: I'm probably the most knowledgable person on the board about DB/Z/GT

You've decided this after all of 8 posts....?

Kanzenshuu

A Few Questions About The Z Senshi...

A Few Questions About The Z Senshi...

Re: A Few Questions About The Z Senshi...