The Post-Saban Ocean Dub: What's the Deal?

[TheBlackPaladin]

When I say "The Post-Saban Ocean Dub," I'm referring to the dub that started in Canada and Britain starting with the Garlic Jr. Saga when, all of a sudden, the Ocean cast returned.

What's the deal with this dub? And by "what's the deal," I mean to ask if anybody could tell me anything about its origins? It seems no one has a clear answer as to why it started, how it started, and to what degree FUNimation was involved. Scott McNeil (Ocean Piccolo) even said when asked who was behind the Post-Saban Ocean dub that he didn't know who was behind it. The whole thing is kind of weird...

Would someone care to elaborate for me just how this dub got started? And were they involved with FUNimation in any capacity considering that their scripts were almost identical to FUNimation's?

[Castor Troy]

This used to be classified information, but since it's been nearly a decade, screw it. Someone can feel free to correct me.

Back when I was a DBZ webmaster, I would hear tons of things that went on behind the scenes. I heard the TV producers in Canada and other countries hated Season 3 so much, that they wanted to recreate the quality of the Seasons 1-2 dub by hiring back the Ocean cast. Since the producers in Canada and other countries didn't want to collaborate with Saban anymore, they lost the Shuki Levy music and had to go with the Mega Man music.

Since FUNi and Ocean were dubbing the same property, there really wasn't any law that prevented Ocean from literally stealing FUNi's scripts. It was pretty obvious that Ocean had someone jot down the FUNi scripts as the episodes were airing on CN in America. As for the title cards being 100% identical, I dunno. My guess is that FUNi sold the episodes to Canada and the other countries and they did what they saw fit.

I dunno if I'm 100% right on all of this, but I do know that Canada and some other countries hating Season 3 was true. But I dunno if that was the full reason why the Ocean cast came back. I used to hear rumors that there were rights problems and junk which might be true.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Hmmm...had someone jot down the scripts, huh? So Sean Schemmel was telling the truth when he said that Ocean "stole" their scripts. Not to suggest he was lying, I only thought since he was an actor and not an executive, he might not be completely privy to what goes on behind closed doors.

[JulieYBM]

What word I have heard is that YTV tired of not getting the tapes quickly enough so they worked something out with FUNimation to create their own dub with Westwood. I'm not sure how this would factor in with this dub then having the FUNimation footage or scripts.

Takahata101 explained on the podcast that they got both dubs on and off in Canada, which I've heard elsewhere before, so it's certainly likely. This dub also aired in European countries too.

[linkdude20002001]

What I know is, Westwood Media got the sub license from AB Groupe to create their own English dub; one that would feature the original English cast. So Westwood Media, in association with AB Groupe and Ocean Productions, dubbed episodes 123~291 (108~276) of DBZ using FUNi's scripts and title cards (maybe FUNi gave them to Westood?), but with the voice actors the fans loved. Sadly the voice acting itself wasn't as good as in the first two seasons; most likely do to constantly switching back and forth between two different recording studios, as well as switching between different voice directors. Because Ocean Studios wasn't always available, most of the episodes had to be recorded at Airwaves Sound Design. The music was taken from Monster Rancher and Mega Man. I can only assume Westwood Media must've dubbed those shows and decided it'd be cheaper to use already paid for music.

This was all done from 2000 to 2002. This alternate English dub first aired in the Netherlands (with Dutch subtitles), then shortly after in the UK and Ireland. Canada had to put up with FUNi's dub for a little longer, but they eventually got the dub they wanted.

In 2003, after having finished DBZ, Westwood Media dubbed DB and DBGT as well. These shows were dubbed quite differently. For one, it was recorded at Blue Water Studios in Calgary, Canada. That means Ocean Productions had to use it's Calgary based cast rather than the Vancouver based cast ('cause who needs consistency? It's the DB franchise after all!). Another difference is the script; they actually translated the show themselves this time! :O And finally, the original Japanese music was used. Even FUNi hadn't done that for DBGT yet.

[penguintruth]

I find it hilarious that they thought using recycled Mega Man cartoon music was better than using the Kikuchi score. Jeez.

[G1Ravage]

I was someone who was incredibly upset when season 3 premiered on Cartoon Network, and the voices were different. I was already "into" researching who was voicing cartoon characters at that point in my life, so it was especially jarring for me. I'm perfectly happy with the FUNi cast now (well, overall, I mean), but I find it incredibly interesting to peak at clips of the later Ocean dub on the Internet and see what the same scenes sound like with the Ocean cast.

Sadly, a lot of the returning actors turned in somewhat different performances, and the new characters they had to get voices for were just awkward at times. Brian Drummond's Vegeta was more or less the same, but Scott McNeil's Piccolo, one of my all-time favorite voices from the original dub, just seemed off. He voiced Piccolo a bit scratchier than he had in the past. Peter Kelamis was never able to get his old groove back, and I never liked Kirby Morrow's performance. Terry Klassen's Kuririn gets on my nerves at this stage of my life. It was wonderful, though, to hear Ted Cole's Yamucha, Saffron Henderson's Gohan, Alec Willow's Oolong, Laara Sadiq's Chichi, and Dave Ward's Gyumao again. Hearing Doc Harris as the narrator again was also really special. To me, he was the best. Dramatic, without having to go overboard. Dale Kelly was a load of shit, and Kyle Hebert tries too hard to sound dark and mysterious, and suffers from FUNi's horrible recap script writing.

But I never liked Ocean's Trunks, Artificial Humans, Don Brown's Mr. Satan, Brad Swaile's teen Gohan, or having Scott McNeil play Buu, Dabura, and just about every non-recurring minor character in the show. I can't budge on that. Eric Vale IS English Trunks to me.

If Ocean really is providing a separate dub for Kai, I will be very interested to see what direction they go in. Will they go for the exact same voices and performances? Will Brian Drummond ignite the Internet by topping his original '9,000' performance? Will they use an appropriately translated script like FUNi is finally doing? Only time will tell....

[TheBlackPaladin]

na

[linkdude20002001]

I was in fourth grade, but I don't think I noticed the voice change. It had been too long I'd seen DBZ at that point (got tired of re-runs). I did, however, notice the different music. It was always my opinion that "the crappy music just got even crappier" or something along those lines.

After having seen Geneon's dub of the first three movies, the TV series was never able to satisfy me. Bad acting and music, and voices that I don't "know and love" (as FUNi puts it).

[Xyex]

Oh geez, I'm not sure what grade I was in. 9th? 10th? Somewhere in there. XD I do remember I was waiting and waiting and waiting for Season 3 and absolutely giddy when it finally started.... And then going "What the heck?" when I finally heard the new voices. They were all so... jarringly different, after watching the Season 1 and 2 re-runs a bazillion times. It also didn't help that I consider early Season 3 some of the weakest material from the entire series. I absolutely hated the whole Ginyu body swapping thing.

The weak material and the new horrible voices almost made me stop watching, but I stuck it out in the hopes things would improve, and by the time Piccolo showed up to fight Freeza the material was a lot better. And by the Trunks Saga the voices were a lot better (and/or I'd adapted to them). Season 3 was definitely dark times.

[Char Aznable]

If Ocean really is providing a separate dub for Kai, I will be very interested to see what direction they go in. Will they go for the exact same voices and performances? Will Brian Drummond ignite the Internet by topping his original '9,000' performance? Will they use an appropriately translated script like FUNi is finally doing? Only time will tell....

If you don't mind my asking, where did this rumor that the Ocean Group is doing their own dub for Kai come from? I haven't seen anything about such in news articles, or is it just speculation?

[Metalwario64]

If you don't mind my asking, where did this rumor that the Ocean Group is doing their own dub for Kai come from?

Sean Schemmel stated that they were making their own dub.

[SilverPlaqueVII]

If you don't mind my asking, where did this rumor that the Ocean Group is doing their own dub for Kai come from?

Sean Schemmel stated that they were making their own dub.

Highly doubt it! Westwood/AB Groupe can either shove with the Vancouver/Calgary cast, as long Toei gives the money? I had DB (1-153), DBZ (1-67, 168-291), and DBGT (1-64) on YTV in the mid-2000s.

[OutlawTorn]

I find it hilarious that they thought using recycled Mega Man cartoon music was better than using the Kikuchi score. Jeez.

Perhaps it came down to cost? For all we know, it was far cheaper to recycle a soundtrack they already had the rights to than license the original score.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I find it hilarious that they thought using recycled Mega Man cartoon music was better than using the Kikuchi score. Jeez.

Perhaps it came down to cost? For all we know, it was far cheaper to recycle a soundtrack they already had the rights to than license the original score.

Actually, I've always wondered that. Is it cheaper to use an existing score from another source, to dub your own score, or to use the original score? I go back and forth sometimes...which option would be cheapest?

[Gaffer Tape]

I remember that FUNimation used to argue that they made their own musical score partly because of the revenues they would earn by using it. "We can charge money every second it's played," or something along those lines.

[Raki]

If you don't mind my asking, where did this rumor that the Ocean Group is doing their own dub for Kai come from?

Sean Schemmel stated that they were making their own dub.

That's very childish and lame.

[TheBlackPaladin]

na

[Metalwario64]

If you don't mind my asking, where did this rumor that the Ocean Group is doing their own dub for Kai come from?

Sean Schemmel stated that they were making their own dub.

That's very childish and lame.

Huh? What, my post, or Schemmel's information? It doesn't make sense either way to me...