A Z Kai dub review from a foreigner (me)

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A Z Kai dub review from a foreigner (me)

Post by Timo » Tue May 11, 2010 3:52 pm

Hi guys!

I didn't want to write it in the dub thread because I think it would go under. Besides I think the topic itself (foreigner point of view) could be interesting.
It's a translation of my German DBZK DVD Volume 1 review from my blog.
So beware of a huge amount of text.

Oh and please don't let this thread become a "English dub VS Japanese version" topic. ;)

Here we go!

I watched all 13 episodes in English. On the one hand it was a pleasure, but on the other hand also a torture. Chris Sabat and Co. promised a better dub and yes it is. It's a bit better than the DBZ dub. There is a pretty accurate script, some attack names (Makankosappo, Kienzan) and pronunciations (Kaio-ken) were rectified and the voices of some characters are more natural.

In general, the dub is closer to the spirit of the original Japanese version. Too bad it's not close enough to be simply „good“, in my opinion.

There are still some silly name changes (Tien, King Kai, Tri-Beam etc.). You have to bear with some of them, because FUNi has the copyrights for the names and I think otherwise it would be a waste of money. But please … if you can change „Special Beam Canon“ to „Makankosappo“, then you can also change „Tri-Beam“ to „Kikoho“.

Like I wrote before on my blog, some voice actors were changed. Among the changes were two actors who have always been an nuisance to me: Bulma (Tiffany Volmer → now Monica Rial) and Gohan (Stephanie Nadolny → Colleen Clinkenbeard). Bulma is just better, but for me a little too generic. Also she could be more high picthed and a little bit more bitchy (or better: annoying), but it's okay. Gohan is just … wow. Really a damn good job. From a nuisance to a highlight of the English dub.

Also some more examples of the good voice directing are Goku (Sean Schemmel), Kuririn (Sonny Strait) and Tenshinhan (John Burgmeier). Although sometimes they fall back to less fitting voices (Goku often, Kuririn less and Tenshinhan almost never) but it's okay and you can hear how much effort they have put into it to satisfiy as much fans as possible („Dubbies“ and „Subbies“).

Too bad there are still many things which are annoying to me, when I watch the show in English. Chris Sabat still voices at least four characters (Piccolo, God, Vegeta and Yamcha) and – damn it – you can hear it. Yes, the voices itself are a little bit better than before. The Piccolo voice is almost okay for me, but the other ones – sorry – I think they're terrible and even embarrassing.

For example: Vegeta. This is just not a voice for a character. You can't act if you use a voice which causes fictive pain in your throat when you listen to it. Besides that it has nothing (not a bit) to do with the original Japanese voice and (most importantly) it doesn't fit to the face. Sure, Sabat's acting as Vegeta is better this time, but the voice itself is crap.
Another example: God (or Kami if you prefer). Chris Sabat as an old man. He uses a voice like a young guy (who he is) who badly fakes an old man's voice. Sure, as far as I know, real old actors were rarely cast in English dubs and so you have to „imitate“ (How silly. Imagine that in a German dub for a prime time TV show such as „Flash Forward“ or „Heroes“). But the thing is for Sabat's voice it sounds cheesy and silly. It makes sense, because he also does Piccolo but I think it doesn't work out well.

Wow, so much text only for Chris Sabat. Actually, I think he's a pretty nice and cool guy.
More voices I can't stand: Oolong, Yajirobe (both are totally opposite to the Japanese versions), Gyumaoh (Kyle Hebert. The voice just sounds mentally handicapped, sorry), Muten Roshi (Mike McFarland does his silly „old man imitation“, but at least the pure acting is good), Nappa (Phil Parsons just sounds not bulky and old enough, so he yells the whole time in an extreme forced an unnatural voice) and Kaioh-sama (Sean Schemmel) of course.

Kaioh-sama sounds less drunk and over the top than before, but the idea of this voice itself is just so terrible. Yeah sure, he looks like a tiny, funny and wacky guy so he has to sound like it. No. Just no. The thing is Kaioh-sama is wise. Yes, also Jouji Yanami sounds a bit funny but that's not an excuse to use a voice for this character, which makes your ears bleed.

Oh well, what else? I think I'm done.
So, most things were improved (most of them only a little bit) but it isn't enough for a „B“. Rather a a „C“.
There is the knowledge and the skills. Chris Sabat and co. proved it. They put in so much effort and for that I thank them. Too bad FUNimation didn't abandon the old „DBZ dub“ legacy. I can understand it, because FUNimation wants to make money and so they won't scare off the „dub fans“. However, for someone who want to see a very good dub of Dragon Ball Z Kai in an understandable language, it's just a little bummer.

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Re: A Z Kai dub review from a foreigner (me)

Post by ohaimynameiserik » Tue May 11, 2010 5:50 pm

C is a bit low. A way bit low.

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Re: A Z Kai dub review from a foreigner (me)

Post by JulieYBM » Tue May 11, 2010 6:00 pm

ohaimynameiserik wrote:C is a bit low. A way bit low.
I think this would be a bit of a better critique if you supported your this post with some reasons why. :sweat:
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Re: A Z Kai dub review from a foreigner (me)

Post by Mewzard » Tue May 11, 2010 7:39 pm

I agree that a C is too low for such a release. Though, my reasoning couldn't hurt:

Let's start with agreement, I do like the improved, very accurate translation, and the use of proper pronunciation of terms, and some of the rather silly attack names being gone.

As for some of the naming being kept, let's break that down. King Kai? Kaio? Can work. The half-translation is still a bit off, but trademark issues aren't their fault. Tien goes along with that, though they did at least try to say "Tienshinhan" once as a concession. Tri-Beam? That, I'm not sure on. There must be a reasoning for it, perhaps lip flaps. Though, I can't say for certain. Of the three, only Tri-Beam really bothers me all that much. It's the only one not even close.

Voice work is more subjective, but there have been definite improvements all around. The new Gohan fits more at this period of time, the new Bulma gives that pissy, annoying vibe still, without drowning you in it. Goku reaches an even more light hearted, innocent tone in voice, to the point that he'd have to get castrated to go any farther in that range direction without sounding mocking. Krillin's always been good, and I do note a difference in tone with Tien, though I can't place it. As for Sabat, I think his various roles have improved as well. His Vegeta and Piccolo sound much more natural, and Yamcha wasn't bad, from what I recall. While it's not extremely close to the original role, it does fit the character. Vegeta is an arrogant, selfish killer who quite often looks mean in the earlier areas, and even when being somewhat nice, lol. He improves, but that doesn't mean he still can't have a similar voice. Frankly, when looking at the Saiyan race, one would think they would be deep voiced. Goku and co being exceptions.

As for other characters, Yajirobe sounds like he looks in the English version, an irritable fat guy who prefers food to fighting. Oolong, I'm not sure how I feel about his changed up voice. And Ox-King sounds handicapped? That's a bit mean, don't you think? Reacum's the one who sounds handicapped. :lol: I've grown fond of Kamesennin's voice, so I wasn't bothered really. As for Kaio, let's face it, he's supposed to be an annoying, if not wise, old jokester. The voice goes fine with the character. A lot of the voices, for all their annoying quirks, aren't as bad with an accurate script. And many are even still further improved with better voice direction.

For me, the set is easily an A-. Most of my complaints are from Toei's work on Kai than the dub itself. Really feels like Funi put more work into Kai than Toei did. Mostly the sometimes awkwardly placed cuts, odd animation "fixes", the edits, etc.
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Re: A Z Kai dub review from a foreigner (me)

Post by ohaimynameiserik » Tue May 11, 2010 9:16 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
ohaimynameiserik wrote:C is a bit low. A way bit low.
I think this would be a bit of a better critique if you supported your this post with some reasons why. :sweat:
I'm just saying I personally would have given it higher than a C.

There was a lot of effort put into it and I feel like I can watch this dub without feeling embarrassed.

Besides, I doubt you care about why. I'm thinking you only took this opportunity to make it seem like my opinion isn't valid, seeing as you probably disagree with it.

It isn't like I said "this review is fucking terrible."

I just wouldn't give it a C is all.

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Re: A Z Kai dub review from a foreigner (me)

Post by JulieYBM » Tue May 11, 2010 10:13 pm

ohaimynameiserik wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
ohaimynameiserik wrote:C is a bit low. A way bit low.
I think this would be a bit of a better critique if you supported your this post with some reasons why. :sweat:
I'm just saying I personally would have given it higher than a C.

There was a lot of effort put into it and I feel like I can watch this dub without feeling embarrassed.

Besides, I doubt you care about why. I'm thinking you only took this opportunity to make it seem like my opinion isn't valid, seeing as you probably disagree with it.

It isn't like I said "this review is fucking terrible."

I just wouldn't give it a C is all.
I haven't even held a copy myself, how the heck am I suppose to disagree with you? I pointed out the fact that your post contained no explaination for why you disagreed with the review. How's anybody suppose to build a discussion off of that, read your mind? :?:
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Re: A Z Kai dub review from a foreigner (me)

Post by ohaimynameiserik » Tue May 11, 2010 11:16 pm

JulieYBM wrote:I haven't even held a copy myself, how the heck am I suppose to disagree with you? I pointed out the fact that your post contained no explaination for why you disagreed with the review. How's anybody suppose to build a discussion off of that, read your mind? :?:
In that case, I completely misunderstood your post and apologize.

All I'm saying is that this release is exactly what FUNi set out to release.

A Dragon Ball dub that actually tells the real story. Almost all the dialog is completely identical to the Japanese if you watch English audio with Japanese subtitles.

The VA's have great acting abilities this time around. Some annoying voices were replaced (though some stayed).

I think if I were going to grade this dub based on accuracy and acting ability I'd give it about an A minus.

The minus being the few dub terms that have stuck around just for the sake of consistency with the dub of the original Dragon Ball.

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Re: A Z Kai dub review from a foreigner (me)

Post by Adamant » Tue May 11, 2010 11:22 pm

ohaimynameiserik wrote: A Dragon Ball dub that actually tells the real story. Almost all the dialog is completely identical to the Japanese if you watch English audio with Japanese subtitles.
"Wow, this translation is actually a translation and not just some shit the licensors made up" does not make a dub "about A minus". It's the bare minimum necessary to lift it above an F.
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Re: A Z Kai dub review from a foreigner (me)

Post by Mewzard » Tue May 11, 2010 11:27 pm

I think the point he's trying to make is that it's not only an actual translation, but also a good one. That was a point that was important to me.
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Re: A Z Kai dub review from a foreigner (me)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Tue May 11, 2010 11:28 pm

Good point. I do hear the old, "Look at Robotech. We're incredibly spoiled now!" admonishments, but, honestly, I think it's the other way around. Anime fans have been pummeled into submission by decades of crap being shoveled on, and any kind of improvement is seen as so amazing by comparison that it must be "good." Adamant is right... a proper translation is the bare minimum. Not saying that Kai isn't a good dub, but a proper translation isn't Corinthian leather, a sun roof, and subwoofers... it's AM/FM radio and windows that move.
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Re: A Z Kai dub review from a foreigner (me)

Post by ohaimynameiserik » Wed May 12, 2010 12:20 am

Adamant wrote:
ohaimynameiserik wrote: A Dragon Ball dub that actually tells the real story. Almost all the dialog is completely identical to the Japanese if you watch English audio with Japanese subtitles.
"Wow, this translation is actually a translation and not just some shit the licensors made up" does not make a dub "about A minus". It's the bare minimum necessary to lift it above an F.
Like I said... if I were to grade it on accuracy and acting, I'd give it an A minus. Something you directly cut out from your quote of me, if my eyes don't deceive me.

The script is spot on and the acting is believable.

I'd say that makes it a good dub. If that isn't what makes a good dub to you, please enlighten me.

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Re: A Z Kai dub review from a foreigner (me)

Post by Piccolo Daimaoh » Wed May 12, 2010 4:35 am

ohaimynameiserik wrote:
The script is spot on and the acting is believable.

I'd say that makes it a good dub. If that isn't what makes a good dub to you, please enlighten me.
An accurate script and believable acting is pretty much all we can ask for in a dub and makes a good one, like DBZ Kai.


But seriously, just a C? They only left "Tri-Beam", "Tien" and "King Kai" unchanged. Boo hoo.

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Re: A Z Kai dub review from a foreigner (me)

Post by Blue » Wed May 12, 2010 6:58 am

Piccolo Daimaoh wrote:
ohaimynameiserik wrote:
The script is spot on and the acting is believable.

I'd say that makes it a good dub. If that isn't what makes a good dub to you, please enlighten me.
An accurate script and believable acting is pretty much all we can ask for in a dub and makes a good one, like DBZ Kai.


But seriously, just a C? They only left "Tri-Beam", "Tien" and "King Kai" unchanged. Boo hoo.
He had an issue with the actual voice work too...just sayin'.
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Re: A Z Kai dub review from a foreigner (me)

Post by Timo » Wed May 12, 2010 7:21 am

Right.

Name changes? Yes, I don't like them, but I can live with them if the rest would be totally awesome. However I dislike many voices. You may be used to them, because you grew up with them but I'm not, although I watched a huge amount of English Dragon Ball (all dubs) and so I'm kinda familiar with them.

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Re: A Z Kai dub review from a foreigner (me)

Post by Piccolo Daimaoh » Wed May 12, 2010 7:47 am

Timo wrote:Right.

Name changes? Yes, I don't like them, but I can live with them if the rest would be totally awesome. However I dislike many voices. You may be used to them, because you grew up with them but I'm not, although I watched a huge amount of English Dragon Ball (all dubs) and so I'm kinda familiar with them.
But still, a C is a bit low even though you disliked some of the voices.

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Re: A Z Kai dub review from a foreigner (me)

Post by VegettoEX » Wed May 12, 2010 8:50 am

Piccolo Daimaoh wrote:
Timo wrote:Right.

Name changes? Yes, I don't like them, but I can live with them if the rest would be totally awesome. However I dislike many voices. You may be used to them, because you grew up with them but I'm not, although I watched a huge amount of English Dragon Ball (all dubs) and so I'm kinda familiar with them.
But still, a C is a bit low even though you disliked some of the voices.
But you're not the one coming up with a "score" or "grade" for Timo and his own interpretations and experiences -- Timo is.

Is that low... for you... based on what your experiences and preferences are? I... guess...?

Reviews are inherently subjective, and scores are further subjective and weirdly-interpretive based on something that's already subjective to begin with.

That's why I live in my own utopian world where no review is given a "score" or "grade" and you're forced to read a wall of substantial text that fully explains any and all opinions, thereby raising the barrier to entry for disagreeing with me!
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Re: A Z Kai dub review from a foreigner (me)

Post by Timo » Wed May 12, 2010 8:52 am

But still, a C is a bit low even though you disliked some of the voices.
Not if I find the voices of some major characters just embarrasing.

If you want, delete the "C" in your mind and replace it with a "6.5 (out of 10)".


EDIT: Thanks, Mike.

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Re: A Z Kai dub review from a foreigner (me)

Post by sangofe » Wed May 12, 2010 9:35 am

Timo wrote:
But still, a C is a bit low even though you disliked some of the voices.
Not if I find the voices of some major characters just embarrasing.

If you want, delete the "C" in your mind and replace it with a "6.5 (out of 10)".


EDIT: Thanks, Mike.
I have to agree that the voices Sabat portray do not fit, and not to mention that Sabat is not a good voice actor...
Last edited by sangofe on Wed May 12, 2010 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A Z Kai dub review from a foreigner (me)

Post by B » Wed May 12, 2010 10:20 am

sangofe wrote:Sabat is not a good voice actor...
Someone's only watched DBZ. :wink:
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Re: A Z Kai dub review from a foreigner (me)

Post by sangofe » Wed May 12, 2010 12:32 pm

B wrote:
sangofe wrote:Sabat is not a good voice actor...
Someone's only watched DBZ. :wink:
Show, and episode number? I didn't like his voice acting work too much in yu yu hakusho either, for instance.

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