More/less plotholes?

[Codarik]

As everyone knows, DB Kai has a lot of filler cut out and color corrections, I have a couple of questions about that.

1. Does cutting out the filler make more or less plot holes/Continuity errors?

2. Does it make any of the DBZ movies that didn't fit in the timeline of DBZ, now fit in the timeline of DB Kai?

3. Does it make GT have less plot holes cause of this? (if you would put it after Kai instead of Z)



Sorry if this has already been talked about.

[DemonRin]

As everyone knows, DB Kai has a lot of filler cut out and color corrections, I have a couple of questions about that.

1. Does cutting out the filler make more or less plot holes/Continuity errors?

2. Does it make any of the DBZ movies that didn't fit in the timeline of DBZ, now fit in the timeline of DB Kai?

3. Does it make GT have less plot holes cause of this? (if you would put it after Kai instead of Z)

Sorry if this has already been talked about.

It already eliminated quite a few plotholes.

1: Piccolo no longer destroys Son's space pod he came to earth in as a baby
2: Kaio doesn't talk about the God of planet Vegeta destroying it with Meteors anymore.
That's just off the top of my head mind.
Did they fix the Trunks plothole where he mentions The Cyborgs' numbers wrong? I know that one was in the manga too, but If I remember right, the Kanzenban fixed it. I don't remember if it was in Z...

And then there's the plotholes no longer in the dub for anyone who watches it exclusively.

1: (Presumably) Gohan's age will now be consistent, and thus he'll always be the right age. (VS the Original dub that made him 5 originally but made him 4 in the redub, meaning the dub was inconsistent with itself)
2: Raditz no longer says the planet Vegeta was blown up Three years before the present day.
And with fidelity to the Japanese script being as good as it has been, we can assume the following will be fixed too:
3: Bulma will no longer state she's "Known Goku since he was five" in the Cyborg arc, when we know she's known him since he was twelve
4: Dr. Gero will not be stated to have been the mastermind the Red Ribbon Army.

[MR.Mark]

I was kinda annoyed they kept in Vegeta seeing Goku as a super saiyan on Namek, but then they sorta fixed it by taking out Vegeta being surprised about it on earth. So I guess it's more of a character inconsistency, since I never liked the Idea of Vegeta being "happy" about it. Then they reworked the later scenes and gave us a little bit of nice filler from Vegeta's nightmares of falling behind Son and Trunks. So I guess you can take it that Vegeta was happy that a saiyan was besting Freeza, which then led to jealously when some punk showed up that matched his rival.

Overall though, OF COURSE Kai has less plot holes, it would take some epically bad editing skills for there to be more after cutting out the majority of all that contradictive bullshit.

[Bussani]

1. Does cutting out the filler make more or less plot holes/Continuity errors?

Surely less. I don't see how removing things that weren't in the story to begin with could cause extra plot holes.

2. Does it make any of the DBZ movies that didn't fit in the timeline of DBZ, now fit in the timeline of DB Kai?

Probably not, as the movies that don't fit into the anime also don't fit into the manga. The reasons they don't fit have nothing to do with filler. It's more like, "How can Goku be on Earth in this movie? He hadn't returned from Namek yet," or, "this movie happens after the battle with Vegeta, but Goku's not in hospital and Kuririn, Gohan and Bulma haven't set off for Namek. What gives?"

3. Does it make GT have less plot holes cause of this? (if you would put it after Kai instead of Z)

It might actually make GT more inconsistent, since a lot of things in GT are based on filler. Villains having bodies in Hell and not being able to die if you're already dead, for instance.

[Goku100xKamehameha]

If there's a new plot hole(s), it's gotta be discuss many times on DB Kai forum because it's the only new plot hole(s) there are since DB Jump Special 2008.

[Coola Yagami]

...they kept Vegeta seeing SSJ Goku on Namek..... they removed Vegeta being surprised about it on Earth..... what in the.....????

[Adamant]

Editing out Vegeta seeing Goku on Namek would've required axing pretty much every Vegeta scene in that episode, including the one where he was shown to teleport away. They had to cut one panel from the manga anyway, and went with the least necessary one. Seeing a quick scene of Vegeta crawling from his grave, and then seeing him with the group on Earth one episode later would've seemed awfully tacky and badly directed.

[MR.Mark]

Editing out Vegeta seeing Goku on Namek would've required axing pretty much every Vegeta scene in that episode, including the one where he was shown to teleport away. They had to cut one panel from the manga anyway, and went with the least necessary one. Seeing a quick scene of Vegeta crawling from his grave, and then seeing him with the group on Earth one episode later would've seemed awfully tacky and badly directed.

Disagreed, having Vegeta see Goku & Freeza in the far distance but not actually meeting up with them would of been enough. We see SO MANY characters being teleported away, that you really think people would be lost because they didn't see Vegeta teleport? The first shot we see of Vegeta on earth would be his feet walking into frame, wondering where Kakarot and Freeza went. It wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why he's there, artistically, editing it like that could of worked. In fact, all they could of shown was Dende teleport away after making the wish, as we just went through Goku explaining what he wanted, followed by Saichoro explaining it to Dende. Leaving the audience to easily put two and two together when we see the whole group on earth.

...they kept Vegeta seeing SSJ Goku on Namek..... they removed Vegeta being surprised about it on Earth..... what in the.....????

Yeah, there's a part while Goku and Freeza are still fighting and Gohan makes a comment that his father is a SSJ, which shocks Vegeta. In Z this made no sense obviously, so while the Kai editors decided to change the story slightly, they removed another of many plot holes from the Z version.

[Coola Yagami]

At times like this I wish Kai would have redrawn some things to match up with the manga. ANY scene with Vegeta or Gohan being at the Goku/Freeza fight should have been cut... and they should have just redrawn Vegeta being revived and warped away some time later. As far as I recall in the manga Gohan as still carrying Piccolo over to Bulma when they were warped away, so they could have just cut any scene that showed Gohan actually making it there.... but the Vegeta thing should have been redrawn (as should Gero popping the guy's head off and Freeza killing Cargo) but.... oh well, what can ya do?

[MR.Mark]

Indeed, people that criticize Kai as being a hack job or sloppy need to realize that this is because Toei is editing down a series that was sloppy and a hack job to begin with. Logically, Kai comes off less sloppy with all these plot holes cut out.

[Coola Yagami]

It's also Toei's fault for making such horrible filler that interferes with the actual order of things. Stuff like fake Namek, Bulma's Bad Day, even the entire Garlic Jr. saga could be cut out without consequence, but stuff like sticking Gohan and Vegeta in a fight they were never in just make it impossible to fix and creates invariable changes to the manga material. That's like suddenly making Cyber Tao Pai Pai 2.0 appear out of nowhere to attack TenShinHan and Chaozu during the Saiyan Battle, with their fight scene disrupting too much of the manga-established Saiyan battle to be able to edit out.

Now, of course it's not like Toei knew they would make a new series cutting out the filler like 10 years or so later... but geez, Dragonball didn't have it this bad. Even the Pilaf scenes could have been cut out of the initial saga without consequence since they never made them actually meet Goku and Bulma before they did in the manga.

[MR.Mark]

Exactly, a lot of faults in the editing can be blamed on mistakes Toei made the first time around with Z. So there's nowhere to go but up when it comes to consistency in Kai with what they've been cutting out.

[Blue]

The thing with Z plot holes is they don't even bother to work around them in their own continuity. It's obnoxious how lazy that is. Either be ready to work with the continuity you're establishing or don't take huge liberties with filler. These types of things are why I'm not buying the Z anime over again in Dragon Box form. Even as a kid the anime did nothing but confuse me with its countless contradictions. I'm glad to see Kai fixing this. Then again they go ahead and make their own errors in the process buy cutting out canon material.

[MR.Mark]

The funny (sad?) thing is, despite my sometimes harsh criticisms of Z, I'm STILL buying the Dragon Box release. Partly due to nostalgia and because I'm a completest when it comes to one of my favorite series of all time. There still are several things and moments about Z that I genuinely enjoy.

Then again they go ahead and make their own errors in the process but cutting out canon material.

That's one of the flaws Kai has, although I don't think any canon material they've cut so far has really effected the plot much.
In the end, they do still keep some filler so things are fleshed out (Bulma concerned over Vegeta ,with the nightmare was nice etc), Kai is far from being ultra fasted paced. I just wish that EVERYTHING from the manga was kept, along with the much less severe condensed filler bits they have now, but it's not a deal breaker.

The Manga is the true original, with Kai and Z both being adapted versions, I just happen to be much preferring the faster paced adaption.

[Khalid Shahin]

It's also Toei's fault for making such horrible filler that interferes with the actual order of things. Stuff like fake Namek, Bulma's Bad Day, even the entire Garlic Jr. saga could be cut out without consequence, but stuff like sticking Gohan and Vegeta in a fight they were never in just make it impossible to fix and creates invariable changes to the manga material.

It is definitely not impossible to edit that kind of stuff out. They are already redrawing scenes, so why don't they redraw scenes that matter?

[Coola Yagami]

That would be too hard for them I guess. The re-drawn scenes are almost traced-over. Drawing something all-new, even for a second or two of animation would probably look too different and clash heavily with animation originally drawn in 1990 or so.

[Gaffer Tape]

In general, Kai should have fewer plotholes because it removes the filler that created them in the first place. But other than pure filler-created plotholes, it will have the same number that Z did because it's using Z as a base. Therefore, it will have Z's plotholes in canon material (such as Zarbon not telling Vegeta that Freeza can transform) as well as correct some of the manga's plotholes (like Trunks telling Goku about #s 19 and 20 or Vegeta having his scouter on Namek). In other words, it's still a crapshoot.

[MR.Mark]

In general, Kai should have fewer plotholes because it removes the filler that created them in the first place. But other than pure filler-created plotholes, it will have the same number that Z did because it's using Z as a base.

No, that's impossible.

[Gaffer Tape]

Er.... I'm not sure if that's supposed to be sarcasm or not, so until I get clarification I'll just leave with a silly face.



After all, what's sillier than making one's face look like an arrow?

[MR.Mark]

Well, unless your referring to plot holes made by Toriyama himself in the manga , color me confused aswell.