Japanese Fans and Dragon Ball GT

[Cipher]

So, I was looking at this recent interview with Raging Blast 2 producer Ryo Mito, in which he touches upon some of the differences between the Japanese and Western fanbases: http://www.siliconera.com/2010/07/28/dr ... velopment/

One point he emphasizes is that GT is especially less popular in Japan than overseas. So my question is, how familiar with GT are Japanese fans to begin with?

My strong, strong guess is not so much that GT is reviled in and of itself, but that comparatively few of them have been exposed to it. It's 1996. Dragon Ball's popularity is waning to begin with, and then Toei goes ahead and moves forward with the story on its own. I have no evidence, but I could completely comprehend a general backlash against the series as it aired. It's fairly hard to receptive of a third party continuation as it airs like that. Even though I like it now, I could see myself having been slightly offended if I'd been around as it began. So I'm guessing it simply didn't make a large splash as it aired?

And after that, then what? The hardcore fans would have hated it on principal (which would have been understandable at the time), and the casual fans would have moved on without any access to it. Until the Dragon Boxes a few years back, there were two ways to revisit the series in the Japan: the manga and movie releases. Most people experienced the series through Shonen Jump and the regularly available tankobans, which obviously GT wasn't a part of. And if they owned any of the anime at all, it would have been the movies (which might explain why the seem more receptive of movie characters than GT). I'd be willing to bet very few of them can recall the Garlic Jr. arc or Anoyoichi Budokai in any detail for example, not like American fans do. Even today, any curious fan who missed GT's first run only has the option of experiencing it through an incredibly expensive DVD collection.

So is a lot of Japan's apathy toward GT the result of an initial backlash followed by simple unavailability? Or am I way off base?

[Gaffer Tape]

Wouldn't GT have been in constant reruns just like the other series? Or was it stricken from that due to its unpopularity?

And it's weird because I'd always been given the impression that it was more well-received in Japan than other territories due to its initial return to its comedic roots. I guess that's all just hearsay, though.

[Cipher]

Wouldn't GT have been in constant reruns just like the other series? Or was it stricken from that due to its unpopularity?

Re-runs don't necessarily breed familiarity though. And as far as I'm aware (ans as far as I saw during a study-abroad in Japan), the series have only been on niche cable networks for some time. That's part of what made Kai's network airing a big deal.

And it's weird because I'd always been given the impression that it was more well-received in Japan than other territories due to its initial return to its comedic roots. I guess that's all just hearsay, though.

The manga's also held in higher regard in Japan though, which may have turned people away initially. I don't think there's any denying that they're just wholly less familiar with the anime version, movies aside, than Western fans are. So if GT was even less watched than the other series as it aired, then well ... I wouldn't be surprised if there are a good number of longtime fans there who would still look totally confused if you mentioned Luud. As in they've just never had a chance to watch it, or haven't been able to go back over it since 1996.

But maybe I'm wrong?

[Cowboy Dev]

I remember ten-twelve years ago being extremely excited to watch it even more so then original Dragon Ball or the later arcs of DBZ. Then I finally watched it and found it below average. I don't really like DBGT not because it's not really canon, but because I find it... well below average. I don't think it's extremely popular anywhere even overseas. Just slightly more than Japan.

[B]

The source is a bit sketchy, but I hear GT was Toei's best-selling show on DVD in 2009. Though, anime DVDs in Japan are known to be controlled by the hardcore otaku, so even if that bit of info is true, it's probably not a great example, as I'm sure there are 20-to-30-something Japanese people who grew up on Dragon Ball and wish to collect stuff like GT.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

I remember reading somewhere that the folks at Toei intended for Dragon Ball GT to go on longer, but stoped it earlier due to low ratings. I have a feeling this might be the case, but I haven't found any evidence for this.

[Daimo-Rukiri]

Apparently the shadow dragon arc was supposed to have been the final arc in GT but not as it was portrayed, Pan was supposed to have become a super saiya-jin before or during this arc. But alas I'm without any evidence.

[Chuquita]

I wonder if they would have ever gotten around to wishing Goku back into an adult during a later arc if they hadn't cancelled GT when they did.

[Herms]

One point he emphasizes is that GT is especially less popular in Japan than overseas.

I find that surprising, if only because I didn't think it was possible for GT to be any less popular than it is in the US. I mean, I didn't think it was popular in Japan (that's where it tanked in ratings to begin with, after all), but the thought that it's comparatively popular oversees is kinda weird. For as long as I can remember, for the most part people on English-speaking DB forums spit whenever GT is mentioned. That's more or less the way things are here now; has that changed in the general community? Is it really popular in Germany or something? What's going on?

Oh, this also reminds me of a video Hujio posted on Kanzentai awhile back. It was Kageyama or someone like that playing music with some other people, and he says they're going to do a DB song next. But the song turns out to be Dan Dan, and one of the musicians is palpably disappointed that by "DB song" he meant DBGT.

I remember reading somewhere that the folks at Toei intended for Dragon Ball GT to go on longer, but stoped it earlier due to low ratings. I have a feeling this might be the case, but I haven't found any evidence for this.

Well, if it had better ratings it almost certainly would have lasted longer; that's how TV works. But the rumors that it was originally intended to be some specific large number of episodes, like 100-200 or whatever, are complete nonsense.

Apparently the shadow dragon arc was supposed to have been the final arc in GT but not as it was portrayed, Pan was supposed to have become a super saiya-jin before or during this arc. But alas I'm without any evidence.

Well, the GT Perfect Files vol.1 makes a point of saying that Pan and Bra can potentially become Super Saiyans, so maybe they were planning that, but there's no solid proof.

[Kiyza]

One point he emphasizes is that GT is especially less popular in Japan than overseas.

I find that surprising, if only because I didn't think it was possible for GT to be any less popular than it is in the US. I mean, I didn't think it was popular in Japan (that's where it tanked in ratings to begin with, after all), but the thought that it's comparatively popular oversees is kinda weird. For as long as I can remember, for the most part people on English-speaking DB forums spit whenever GT is mentioned. That's more or less the way things are here now; has that changed in the general community? Is it really popular in Germany or something? What's going on?

Perhaps it's not so much the fans who are really into the series who like GT, but just generic people with some fondness for the series in general. Being a highschool student, I find that this sort of thing happens a lot. I met a kid on the bus once who mentioned that his favorite character was "Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta because he's the strongest!" and that was his favorite part of the entire series. Yeah, he's a stereotypical young kid, but I just thought that it's worth mentioning that these people do buy the games.

[Cipher]

I find that surprising, if only because I didn't think it was possible for GT to be any less popular than it is in the US. I mean, I didn't think it was popular in Japan (that's where it tanked in ratings to begin with, after all), but the thought that it's comparatively popular oversees is kinda weird. For as long as I can remember, for the most part people on English-speaking DB forums spit whenever GT is mentioned. That's more or less the way things are here now; has that changed in the general community? Is it really popular in Germany or something? What's going on?

Well, my speculation, and maybe I haven't been clear enough, is that GT is less popular in Japan because many fans haven't even seen it, or maybe haven't experienced it beyond vague memories of 1996. What with no home releases outside the movies until the expensive Dragon Boxes, and the manga being the primary way to experience the series and all.

I wouldn't be surprised if many fans there are almost wholly unfamiliar with the series other than it being "that thing that Toei made." Thus the increased apathy.

The source is a bit sketchy, but I hear GT was Toei's best-selling show on DVD in 2009.

This could very well indicate that people were just curious enough to pick up the part of the series that there's no manga for/they were unfamiliar with.

So to reiterate, the main question here is, "Are most Japanese fans even really familiar with GT at all?"

[Eddie]

So to reiterate, the main question here is, "Are most Japanese fans even really familiar with GT at all?"

I went to Japan for Spring Break in 2007. I saw a GT gashapon machine and a big poster for one of the videogames that primarily emphasized the GT characters. I think that they're just as familiar (if not more so) as the American fans are. As for that quote about foreign fans being more into GT than the Japanese fans, I'm not so sure about that. In my experience, people I know who like GT are the same kind of people that only like Dragon Ball Z because it's such a hardcore action show featuring characters with maximum power. These kind of people tend to be outspoken, though, so I could see why a game producer might think the foreign fans like GT. They probably get plenty of requests along the lines of "MOR SS4 Gogeta and Omega Shenron. Dudez got crazy POWER!!!". The only people I know (well, know on the internet) who honestly seem to like GT and also seem to be somewhat sane are a select few individuals on this board. Elsewhere on the internet and in real life? Just the MAXIMUM POWER folks.

[JulieYBM]

I remember a Dragon Ball GT loaf of bred with Super Saiyan 4 Son Gokû being posted on the forums once, so I must assume it is something Japan is familiar with, espicially if we take the previous games that did include GT characters into account. Maybe it is something that is typically overlooked, but I certainly don't think it is something that is widespready unknown.

[Goku100xKamehameha]

I remember a Dragon Ball GT loaf of bred with Super Saiyan 4 Son Gokû being posted on the forums once, so I must assume it is something Japan is familiar with, espicially if we take the previous games that did include GT characters into account. Maybe it is something that is typically overlooked, but I certainly don't think it is something that is widespready unknown.

Are about the one that Kei17 posted?

[Conan the SSJ]

I wonder if they would have ever gotten around to wishing Goku back into an adult during a later arc if they hadn't cancelled GT when they did.

I doubt it. Keep in mind Chu, GT would've actually been canceled a lot sooner, after the Baby arc if I'm not mistaken, had the Playstation game never came out in '97. So even if it was only because of marketing, the fact we'd gotten the Super 17 and Dark Dragon sagas was an extension to GT. In the case of this series, Toei was given more episodes to close the story and they did such without any desire to bring Goku back to his adult form, outside the Goku Jr. special and final episode's epilogue.

Maybe the show's heads had some bizarre Chichi/SSJ4 Goku fetish?

[Blue]

Or a shotacon fetish.

[Rocketman]

Maybe the show's heads had some bizarre Chichi/SSJ4 Goku fetish? :shock:

Ahahahaha, right. Toei has eyes for Goku and Goku alone. That's why they made him a kid again, so they could get away with drawing his dick and even putting it in the opening.

[Blue]

Do you enjoy the original Dragon Ball Rocketman? I'm just curious because Goku is the main character there and usually the hero but I rarely see you talk smack about that series.

[Rocketman]

Do you enjoy the original Dragon Ball Rocketman? I'm just curious because Goku is the main character there and usually the hero but I rarely see you talk smack about that series.

I do, actually, and it's because there's some important differences in how the outwardly similar scenes play out.

Firstly, DB has the World Tournaments, vast stretches of the show where everybody gets a go-round. Even Yamcha's infamous losing streak gives a good fight with Tien at the 22nd.

Second, characters aren't thrown aside in DB like they are in GT. Roshi remains a major power up until the 23rd WT, for one; they also don't get crippled to make Goku look better. Nobody ever magically gets weaker in DB, compared to GT removing Mystic, Gotenks, and knocking Vegeta down to Goten's level.

Third, Goku's never that far ahead, especially for no good reason. He's only able to tie Roshi at the 21st because Roshi burned off so much ki destroying the Moon. When he wipes out the Red Ribbon, Roshi is only doubtful that he'd have the stamina to kill everybody there, not that he couldn't do it ever. And then Tien at the next Tournament is easily able to match Goku.

Sure, there's moments that piss me off (Goku showing up Krillin vs General Blue, everybody together getting blown away by a heavily weakened Piccolo Jr waving his hand but Goku and his shattered body are still the Only One Who Can Win), but it happens far less frequently than GT's prolonged fellatio.

[Blue]

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks!