Difference between Genki and ki?

[dbgtFO]

Does somebody know, what the difference between Genki(as in Genkidama) and ki is? And if there is a difference, is it ever touched upon in the series itself?

[Kaboom]

If I'm to understand it right, "Genki" is just one part of Ki. It has something to do with one's health and life force.

[Nazi Cola]

Yeah, I never understood this either, really.

[Herms]

元気/genki is a Japanese word referring to health or vigor. By extension, it can mean "energy" in the sense of referring to someone as energetic (but not "energy" in a scientific sense). Asking if someone is genki is a generic Japanese greeting, similar to asking how someone's doing in English. In Japanese, 気/ki is by no means limited in scope to the sort of fantasy life force or energy seen in DB or similar series, but is also used in countless words and terms referring to a person's feelings or state of mind, among other uses. Genki is one of these, as are 病気/byouki (sickness), 勇気/yuuki (bravery), 正気/shouki (soberness, being in one’s right mind), and many more. Toriyama references these sorts of words that have 気/ki in them in the SEG: Story Volume, where he connects them to the DB conception of ki:

What’s the secret of winning in battle?
When it comes to battle, the most important thing is ki size, and its control. Of course, “ki” also includes such spiritual power as energy/vigor [genki] and bravery [yuuki], and being in one’s right mind [shouki; could also be translated as "true character"] (note 11). There’s a limit to physical strength, no matter how much you toughen it up, and the only way to overcome that it is with “ki”. I think that it was through turning ki into formidable power that Goku drew closer to being the strongest warrior in the universe.

Note 11: Genki and yuuki, shouki
The word “energy” [genki; also “health”, “vigor”, etc] is well known, but if you had an illness [byouki], would you not have energy? That’s difficult to answer. There are some people who have a healthy body but no energy, but there are also some people who are full of energy even when ill. What’s more, even with people who have about the same amount of power, there are some who, when attacked by Piccolo Daimao for instance, will stand firm and tough it out, while others will run away trembling in fear. If you think this way, you might understand how different kinds of “ki” are very important in battle. In the world of Chinese kenpo disciplines such as Tai Chi, much importance is placed on the training and control of ki.

Although in “DragonBall” the wizard Babidi had invented machines that measured and extracted “ki”, modern science is unable to measure “ki” or store it anywhere. However, there are times when people support you, and give you energy [genki] and courage [yuuki]. Though it can’t be seen, what is present then is “ki”.

[Kaboom]

So Herms, in your educated opinion (because honestly, I don't entirely get it), how would this definition or 3-fold nature of Ki play into the formation and use of Genki in the aptly-named Genki-Dama?

Should we assume it only uses and is fueled by that one portion, or something?

[Herms]

So Herms, in your educated opinion (because honestly, I don't entirely get it), how would this definition or 3-fold nature of Ki play into the formation and use of Genki in the aptly-named Genki-Dama?

Should we assume it only uses and is fueled by that one portion, or something?

Well, the first thing to point out is that it’s not simply a 3-fold nature; Toriyama mentions genki, shouki, and yuuki only by way of example (I guess my translation doesn’t really make this clear enough). Toriyama says that ki also includes spiritual power such as vitality, soberness, and bravery (the word for “and” here is ya, indicating that the things listed aren’t exhaustive and there are other things that could be added). He says that “of course” ki includes these things, and the only obvious connection between those terms is that they’re spiritual/mental states with 気/ki in their name. So presumably, other spiritual or mental states that have ki in them could also be included.

How exactly this relates to the Genki-Dama is unclear, to say the least, and I really don’t think we can do anything but speculate. In the series, that which the Genki-Dama gathers is referred to variously as 元気/genki, 気/ki, エネルギー/enerugii (taken from the German word for “energy”), and 力/chikara, “power”. The daizenshuu explain that “energy” (the German word) and ki are simply different names for the same thing, and “power” is a pretty generic term. And Toriyama’s SEG explanation would seem to indicate genki as being a particular type or sub-category of ki. Overall I think it makes the most sense to think of the Genki-Dama as drawing on only the genki component of a person’s ki. However, while genki is only one of many things included in ki, it seems to be a fairly vital component. In the Boo arc, donating one’s genki to the Genki-Dama is said to tire you out in the same way that running as fast as you can does, and Kaioshin becomes unable to teleport after contributing his genki. And in the anime, if you want to count that, it’s said that taking too much genki from the Earthlings could kill them. So it doesn’t seem that people can just give their genki away and be fine because they’ve still got all the other components of their ki intact. Maybe this is because genki makes up the majority of most people’s ki, so taking it away leaves little left. Or maybe genki is just extra vital due to its connection with health. Like in an RPG, a character can fight with reduced attack or defense, but reduce their HP to zero and they can’t fight at all.

[Dayspring]

So Herms, in your educated opinion (because honestly, I don't entirely get it), how would this definition or 3-fold nature of Ki play into the formation and use of Genki in the aptly-named Genki-Dama?

Should we assume it only uses and is fueled by that one portion, or something?

Well, the first thing to point out is that it’s not simply a 3-fold nature; Toriyama mentions genki, shouki, and yuuki only by way of example (I guess my translation doesn’t really make this clear enough). Toriyama says that ki also includes spiritual power such as vitality, soberness, and bravery (the word for “and” here is ya, indicating that the things listed aren’t exhaustive and there are other things that could be added). He says that “of course” ki includes these things, and the only obvious connection between those terms is that they’re spiritual/mental states with 気/ki in their name. So presumably, other spiritual or mental states that have ki in them could also be included.

How exactly this relates to the Genki-Dama is unclear, to say the least, and I really don’t think we can do anything but speculate. In the series, that which the Genki-Dama gathers is referred to variously as 元気/genki, 気/ki, エネルギー/enerugii (taken from the German word for “energy”), and 力/chikara, “power”. The daizenshuu explain that “energy” (the German word) and ki are simply different names for the same thing, and “power” is a pretty generic term. And Toriyama’s SEG explanation would seem to indicate genki as being a particular type or sub-category of ki. Overall I think it makes the most sense to think of the Genki-Dama as drawing on only the genki component of a person’s ki. However, while genki is only one of many things included in ki, it seems to be a fairly vital component. In the Boo arc, donating one’s genki to the Genki-Dama is said to tire you out in the same way that running as fast as you can does, and Kaioshin becomes unable to teleport after contributing his genki. And in the anime, if you want to count that, it’s said that taking too much genki from the Earthlings could kill them. So it doesn’t seem that people can just give their genki away and be fine because they’ve still got all the other components of their ki intact. Maybe this is because genki makes up the majority of most people’s ki, so taking it away leaves little left. Or maybe genki is just extra vital due to its connection with health. Like in an RPG, a character can fight with reduced attack or defense, but reduce their HP to zero and they can’t fight at all.

This is just my two cents, but I see youki, shouki, etc as being power reserves that one doesn't normally access. Goku uses his "bravery reserves" to overpower Daimao, Vegeta needs a nap despite having eaten a senzu in order to replenish his mental faculties, Saichoru/Karin/Rou Kaioshin use various means to tap into one's dormant powers, zenkais, transformations etc. So the reason Genki gets such a long list of synonyms is because it refers to the overwhelming majority of cases when someone can use their ki consciously.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

エネルギー/enerugii (taken from the German word for "energy")

This is just a random question, but don't certain characters say エナジー/enaji- instead? (Or am I thinking of other series?) Is there even a real difference? I think that's probably just taken from the English word, but I wonder why they use both in Japanese...

[dbgtFO]

Random fact: In the Dragonball Kai opening song Dragon Soul both Genki, ki and youki is song out loud.
On topic: @Herms It seems Kaboom asked one of the questions I wanted to ask, but now that we have a somewhat qualified guess here is my follow up question:

Are we led to believe that Gohan, Piccolo and the other Z fighters have more(or less) Genki, than Kaioshin? Because noone of them seems as exhausted as he is.
In a way it seems weird though, if they still had some reserves of it and they didn't donate some of it, just to make sure, there was enough.
I understand if the question is unanswerable.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

It's yuuki (bravery), actually. Youki is something entirely different (think: Yu Yu Hakusho). I think Herms has said that a couple of characters in DB have mentioned a bad guy's "youki," though. Not 100% sure on that one.

About the mention of "ki" in the song, I think you're thinking of when he says "kiai," which is a shout.

[dbgtFO]

It's yuuki (bravery), actually. Youki is something entirely different (think: Yu Yu Hakusho). I think Herms has said that a couple of characters in DB have mentioned a bad guy's "youki," though. Not 100% sure on that one.

About the mention of "ki" in the song, I think you're thinking of when he says "kiai," which is a shout.

Oh yeah it is yuuki, that is sung, and yeah I must have misheard it, because he sings it like Ki...ai de, so I thought he just said ki, my bad

[Kendamu]

It's yuuki (bravery), actually. Youki is something entirely different (think: Yu Yu Hakusho). I think Herms has said that a couple of characters in DB have mentioned a bad guy's "youki," though. Not 100% sure on that one.

About the mention of "ki" in the song, I think you're thinking of when he says "kiai," which is a shout.

In the context of the song, I think "kiai" is supposed to come off more as "fighting spirit" rather than it being the specific shouting technique that's supposed to explosively focus and project that very fighting spirit.

[dbgtFO]

It's yuuki (bravery), actually. Youki is something entirely different (think: Yu Yu Hakusho). I think Herms has said that a couple of characters in DB have mentioned a bad guy's "youki," though. Not 100% sure on that one.

About the mention of "ki" in the song, I think you're thinking of when he says "kiai," which is a shout.

In the context of the song, I think "kiai" is supposed to come off more as "fighting spirit" rather than it being the specific shouting technique that's supposed to explosively focus and project that very fighting spirit.

At 0:43 whoever translated it seems to be agreeing with you:Dragon soul(crappy quality though)

[Herms]

This is just a random question, but don't certain characters say エナジー/enaji- instead? (Or am I thinking of other series?) Is there even a real difference? I think that's probably just taken from the English word, but I wonder why they use both in Japanese...

Yeah, Kaioshin refers to Boo’s パワーエナジー/pawaa enajii, “power energy”, when he and Kibito are flying over to heal Gohan. Daizenshuu 7 says that エナジー/enajii is Kaioshin’s particular term for ki (incidentally, in DBAF Toyble has the West Kaioshin use the term as well). I’d assume enajii comes from the English word “energy”, but haven’t really been able to find any confirmation. Why both that and enerugii are used in Japanese, I don’t know. Languages are just crazy like that. From what I can tell there’s no distinction in meaning in Japanese.

Are we led to believe that Gohan, Piccolo and the other Z fighters have more(or less) Genki, than Kaioshin? Because noone of them seems as exhausted as he is.

Maybe, but I don't know how much importance we should place on looks. If Gohan and co. were shown flying around and shooting ki blasts all over the place and whatnot after donating their genki, that would be something (well, I guess they are shown flying in the anime, when they go try to convince others to donate genki). But in the manga they just stand around. Even Kaioshin doesn't look amazingly exhausted, he just has a little sweat drop, and is still standing just fine. So I don't think there's much reason to assume there's any great difference in how much he was tired out compared to Gohan and co.

I think Herms has said that a couple of characters in DB have mentioned a bad guy's "youki," though. Not 100% sure on that one.

Yeah, Goku says he can sense Piccolo Daimao's youki after drinking the Super God Water, and Yajirobe describes Oozaru Vegeta as having youki as well. Daizenshuu 7 says that youki is simply what Yajirobe calls ki, but Goku's use of the term in reference to Daimao might indicate demons have unique ki, similar to Yu Yu Hakusho were youki refers to the special ki which demons have.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I think Herms has said that a couple of characters in DB have mentioned a bad guy's "youki," though. Not 100% sure on that one.

Yeah, Goku says he can sense Piccolo Daimao's youki after drinking the Super God Water, and Yajirobe describes Oozaru Vegeta as having youki as well. Daizenshuu 7 says that youki is simply what Yajirobe calls ki, but Goku's use of the term in reference to Daimao might indicate demons have unique ki, similar to Yu Yu Hakusho were youki refers to the special ki which demons have.

Yeah. I think Viz translates what Yajirobe says about Oozaru Vegeta as "a demonic aura".

[T Pac]

I'm sure this has been addressed before, but as a related question, where does the Kikoho derive it's energy from?

[Kendamu]

I'm sure this has been addressed before, but as a related question, where does the Kikoho derive it's energy from?

All that we can tell from info guides and whatnot is that it's a kiai-type technique and that, according to Kanzentai, it is "An obscure technique that releases all of the users' life energy from throughout the body in one burst." Also it is "A technique that puts out a kiai. Most of the body's ki is depleted." Maybe it goes by the example of the phrase "気が抜ける" (lit: leaking ki, lack-of-ki) or to "deaden," or "become stale." Since it's a kiai technique and kiai is basically a physical focused explosion of your fighting spirit or will to fight (which, in turn, is a big part of who you are inside), maybe a Kikoho is a dangerous type of kiai that drains you of what it is to, for lack of better wording, "be you." Maybe the "essence" translation of ki would be best in this case.

EDIT: I'm editing this post as I find more info.