Vegeta SS2 before be possessed by Babidi?

[HECTOR4]

Is it true that the DB Super Exciting Guide said to Vegeta is SS2 before be possessed by Babidi?

Can someone show me the exact text?, please.

[Kaboom]

To quote our very own Herms on the subject:

That's Daizenshuu 7's technique dictionary:

Super Saiyan 2
First Appearance: chapter 408
People: Son Goku, Son Gohan, Vegeta, Gotenks
Special features: This form has power that surpasses Super Saiyan in all ways. Gohan naturally transformed into this form from his anger at Cell's brutal actions, while Goku and Vegeta learned it from harsh training.

...

A quick browse through Kanzentai's page for the SEG's Story Volume says there's a portion in the Training section called "Training EX," explaining the non-Goku characters' training methods. If it's anywhere in the SEG, I think that'd be it.

Yeah, there's that too. It refers to Vegeta's awakening to Super Saiyan 2 as one of the fruits of his training between the Cell Games and 25th TB.

[HECTOR4]

To quote our very own Herms on the subject:

That's Daizenshuu 7's technique dictionary:

Super Saiyan 2
First Appearance: chapter 408
People: Son Goku, Son Gohan, Vegeta, Gotenks
Special features: This form has power that surpasses Super Saiyan in all ways. Gohan naturally transformed into this form from his anger at Cell's brutal actions, while Goku and Vegeta learned it from harsh training.

...

A quick browse through Kanzentai's page for the SEG's Story Volume says there's a portion in the Training section called "Training EX," explaining the non-Goku characters' training methods. If it's anywhere in the SEG, I think that'd be it.

Yeah, there's that too. It refers to Vegeta's awakening to Super Saiyan 2 as one of the fruits of his training between the Cell Games and 25th TB.

Thank you very much!!!

[VegettoEX]

This is definitely one of those topics which I have only the slightest amount of interest in but could pull in some of those battle-power-comparative-obsessed fans in as listeners for a podcast topic... not sure why I didn't think of it before...

Noted...

Ellipses...

[JulieYBM]

This is definitely one of those topics which I have only the slightest amount of interest in but could pull in some of those battle-power-comparative-obsessed fans in as listeners for a podcast topic... not sure why I didn't think of it before...

Noted...

Ellipses...

It'd certainly make for a great segment in that upcoming minisode you have planned...

[VegettoEX]

It'd certainly make for a great segment in that upcoming minisode you have planned...

You don't even know what I have planned! You can't plan my un-planned plans!

In all honesty, though, I think it would be neat to compare what concrete information was available about the transformation during which years (as in real life years, not years in the Dragon World), which could help frame why/if there's a "debate" about it.

[Rocketman]

which could help frame why/if there's a "debate" about it.

I'd bet dollars that a good part of the debate is based on how Toei can't ever keep SS1 and 2 straight. If all you've seen is the anime/movies, the only time Vegeta ever has lightning is while Majin.

[cpd12589]

Yeah that's for sure. Toei really has a hard time keeping the lightning with SSJ2 straight. The only other time I think Vegeta had his lightning while in SSJ2 was like a small clip during his fight with Kid Buu. Other than that they really dropped the ball with him in his SSJ2 form.

[HECTOR4]

I wanted to know this information because in the Spanish forums there is discussion with the question of when does Vegeta achieved her SS2.

Most people think that it succeeds thanks to the Power-Up that provides Babidi.

[Fox666]

But when you think about it, it doesn't really makes sense...

Vegeta simply turned in SSJ2 after he seeing Goku turning in SSJ... if it was because of Babidi, shouldn't he have transformed in SSJ2 right after he was possessed? How can he simply transform like that if he never did that before?

The confusion is caused because Vegeta saw Goku real power when he transformed in SSJ2 against Yakon... but how else would Vegeta know Goku maximum power to compare himself with, unless Goku transformed?

[Savage68]

He assumed.

Vegeta: "Huh. S'been seven years now, and I'm finally a Super Saiyan 2... I'll bet my sweet bippie that Kakarot's one, too! I'm defined as permanently being two steps behind him, after all."

Goku wouldn't have been excited about re-matching Vegeta if he hadn't even surpassed the Super Saiyan wall, and vice-versa.

[dbgtFO]

He assumed.

Vegeta: "Huh. S'been seven years now, and I'm finally a Super Saiyan 2... I'll bet my sweet bippie that Kakarot's one, too! I'm defined as permanently being two steps behind him, after all."

Goku wouldn't have been excited about re-matching Vegeta if he hadn't even surpassed the Super Saiyan wall, and vice-versa.

And Vegeta was confident in beating Teen Gohan, even though he doesn't know how weak he has become.
To me that pretty much confirms, that he has gone beyond normal Super Saiyan and landed not far from Kid Gohan.

[Juan Fra]

To quote our very own Herms on the subject:

That's Daizenshuu 7's technique dictionary:

Super Saiyan 2
First Appearance: chapter 408
People: Son Goku, Son Gohan, Vegeta, Gotenks
Special features: This form has power that surpasses Super Saiyan in all ways. Gohan naturally transformed into this form from his anger at Cell's brutal actions, while Goku and Vegeta learned it from harsh training.

...

A quick browse through Kanzentai's page for the SEG's Story Volume says there's a portion in the Training section called "Training EX," explaining the non-Goku characters' training methods. If it's anywhere in the SEG, I think that'd be it.

Yeah, there's that too. It refers to Vegeta's awakening to Super Saiyan 2 as one of the fruits of his training between the Cell Games and 25th TB.

Been looking for this for quite some time.

Thanks!

[p123]

If you just read the manga you would simply see that Vegeta has SSJ2, it's that obvious.


Vegeta implies he is somewhere around Kid Gohan's level of strength. Did Vegeta reach SSJ2 Kid Gohan in his SSJ form? Doubtful but possible. The likely answer is Vegeta has SSJ2 and is pretty darn close to Kid Gohan although not quite there yet.


Vegeta says " Goku surpassed the SSJ wall as well "

Key words " as well "


Which of course implies, that Vegeta surpassed the SSJ wall. What's the SSJ wall? Well it's heavily implied to be SSJ2, seeing as how nearly immediately after that Vegeta says that he and Goku are stronger than Gohan is now, who had just displayed SSJ2 at the Budokai.

[Nazi Cola]

He could just mean "as well" as in "so just like that shitty bitch Gohan, that clown can also go Super Saiyan 2."

[the_abberration]

The thing that makes me think the Vegeta did not become SSJ2 until after the majin power up, is his comments to Goku about needing to go back to the way he was since he had become complacent (with having a family and everything). I've always had the belief that Vegeta could not cross the SSJ2 barrier, because Goku was not around and Gohan was trying to live a normal life. Since no one was around to provide him a sufficient challenge, he had no motivation to break that wall. When he sees Goku has broken that wall, and after observing how Babidi's magic affected Spopovich, as well as how the power draws out the evil within a person, Vegeta didn't need the power boost so much as he needed the trigger itself. With the power boost being a bonus (if there was one). It goes back to Vegeta's "pure evil" statement when he reveals he was a SSJ:

I desired nothing but to be stronger. I endured a training from Hell. Then I ran into a wall. My own limits. In the rage I felt towards myself, I awoke...into a Super Saiyan!!! I overflowed with with joy... I finally surpassed Kakarrot! I could be the true Saiyan Messiah!

As one of the guidebooks mentioned, Vegeta became SSJ2 through harsh training. However, Vegeta shows that while he endured harsh training to reach SSJ (and may have the ability physically to achieve SSJ2), he may also need similar mental conditions to reach the form as well. Which in this case, Babidi's magic provided. Also as per that excerpt, he assumes that the mere transformation to SSJ alone puts him on par strentghwise with Goku (The last part being debatable, since it's Vegeta's implication of his strength) Although when we see Vegeta go SSJ2 against him, Goku remarks that it would not be easy.

Also when Gohan was still a SSJ, he assumed that Goku was holding back when he actually went all out during his fight with Cell. Again to me this implies that while physically one may be able to break the wall into SSJ2, certain mental conditions have to be achieved in order to break the wall and trigger the transformation. In turn allowing them access to the additional power.

For example. Person A (Gohan) can walk into a store and steal two bottles of soda. Person B & C (Goku & Vegeta) can take longer by working to earn the money and buy two bottles of soda. In both cases while they all have two sodas, in order for all of them to drink those sodas (accessing the power of SSJ2), they still need to take the caps off to get to the soda itself.

While it doesn't provide concrete proof, I think it's something that may not have been addressed in previous discussions in the past concerning this issue.

[p123]

@ Nazi Cola

Yea Vegeta would be pretty pissed if Goku could go SSJ2 and he couldn't. He is completely calm.

Vegeta not having SSJ2 would be illogical.


It would be like Vegeta as a SSJ is stronger than Teen Gohan.


Remember Vegeta says We're Stronger than him now. And of course it's including SSJ2.

There's really no weight behind Vegeta not having SSJ2, just people twisting simple logic around really.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Ugh...I hate this kind of thread.

Vegeta says that he and Goku are stronger than Gohan now. Vegeta knows that Gohan has Super Saiyan 2, therefore Vegeta can turn Super Saiyan 2. Plus, Vegeta transforms into a SSj2 during the battle with Kid Boo, after he lost the Majin power-up.

[p123]

Agreed with Piccolo on everything except Vegeta losing the Majin power up. I think Vegeta kept it. But yea, the only way you think Vegeta doesn't have SSJ2 is if you truly twist everything that is implied around.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Agreed with Piccolo on everything except Vegeta losing the Majin power up. I think Vegeta kept it. But yea, the only way you think Vegeta doesn't have SSJ2 is if you truly twist everything that is implied around.

No "M", eyeliner and jagged spikes to his hair means no Majin power-up.