Dub Fans: What is wrong with the Sub Version?

[ChampionofTime]

Post Deleted.

[Zarathustra]

I don't really care for the Japanese language, and I really dig Bruce Faulconer.

[jjgp1112]

this is asking for trouble...

Anyway, my main problem is the ridiculously repetitive and oftentimes boring music. The funny thing is is that during the Saiyan and Namek sagas it's actually very good and really gets you into the show, but by the Frieza saga, you begin to notice it slipping through the cracks. It starts to get very repetitive as some songs are used WAY too often, although they were still applicable and serviceable. However, during the Android saga is when things really start to fall apart and the music, while not dull, is really poorly placed and they always manage to use the wrong songs for certain situations. It winds up not engaging you into the situations at all and is all around dull. The sad part is the songs were used well in the movies, like Movies 6 & 7, yet in the actually show it's just a mess. The songs just seem like random background noise slapped into the scene, and it's especially bad once you get into the Cell Games where they abuse the hell out of that song from the beginning of Movie 7 where Androids 14 & 15 are walking through the city. Like, what made them decide that that song was the right thing to use for when Gohan is massacring the Cell Jrs, or when he owns Cell with the super Kamehameha. And don't get me started on the Buu saga.

And beyond that, it has all of the usual problems I have with subbed anime like having the same token generic voice for every character type. Every big character like Nappa will have the same voice, every "badass" character like vegeta will have the same voice, etc. And Goku's adult voice just doesn't sit well with me. A grown man doesn't sound like a 12 year old kid, regardless of his personality. You can get a very cheerful, energetic childlike voice that actually still sounds like a grown man.

[NeoKING]

Some people don't care much for performances or the Japanese language. Some people just want to watch Dragon Ball. So, they may not dislike it, they just don't care for it. You can say that these fans just don't care,(I'd fall into this category) and watch whatever version for the fun of it.

Then you have people that praise the subbed version as if it's the greatest and most hardcore thing in the universe next to Christ. These people tend to play down or insult fans of the dub by heavily insinuating that the subbed version is the greatest and always shall be. Some people dislike the sub for this reason - because "elitist" fans of the sub act as if it's the greatest thing ever towards the casual fans, causing bad blood. The casual fans would likely prefer to hear something in a language they completely understand, so when someone comes along and says "Japanese version is better because it's the original(which is a dumb ass statement)," or simply "because it's in Japanese" they tend to take that as an annoyance and direct that towards not wanting to watch the sub.

Then you have people that just hate the Japanese version for the music, or the voices, or the fact that they have to read subtitles, etc. These people genuinely dislike the subbed version because of their personal opinion.

I'm sure that this doesn't apply to everyone, but it sure does apply to most cases I've seen. But, just because one likes the dub doesn't mean that they think something is wrong with the sub.

[VegettoEX]

Let's stray away from non-personal generalizations that you can't back up with your own feelings or thoughts. That doesn't help anyone. Saying "Some people... [blah blah blah]" doesn't actually say anything, and just contributes to larger arguments.

[MetalMadness]

I am aware of the flaws of the dub, and I can respect the Original Japanese version for what it is and appreciate it.

But it will never be my preference. I just have a preference to the dub voices. Maybe it has something to do with nostalgia. But no matter how many episodes I watch subbed, Nozawa cannot be my Goku, and Horikawa cannot be my Vegeta. They are certainly good, I do not deny that, and they suit the characters.
But, they simply are not my preference.

I also do not like Kikuchi's score, at all. There are certain tracks that I definitely do enjoy, but to me it really just sounds like circus music... and I'm not saying that Faulconer is the pinnacle of musical genius either, I definitely agree that silence is good and that sometimes Faulconer's music just sounds like plain noise. But I vastly prefer it over Kikuchi's. And I prefer Yamamato's score from Kai over Kikuchi's as well.

My absolute ideal version of Dragon Ball are my edited Kai episodes. I basically take the dub of Kai, add in some Faulconer tracks that I love where they fit, and I mix in the censored footage with uncensored DBox footage, and then I cut out any left over filler. The end result is my ultimate DB experience.


Oh BTW Champ I read your review regularly on the FUNi boards, I just never bothered to register there. But I found it very interesting to see a new fan's perspective

[NeoKING]

Let's stray away from non-personal generalizations that you can't back up with your own feelings or thoughts. That doesn't help anyone. Saying "Some people... [blah blah blah]" doesn't actually say anything, and just contributes to larger arguments.

Really? Here I am thinking that answering a question about dub fans and the sub version using my experience with dub fans and the sub version would be of use. How 'bout that, lol?

[gokuhan72]

I know the sub is probably better. But that being said I prefer the dub due to the voices mainly. I prefer the voices of the dub probably because I'm more familiar with American voices than Japanese voices. The music I find is equal, I like both and sometimes the dub's is better in one part and the sub's is better in the other.

Also I will admit a small factor is nostalgia, my DB/Z/GT memories in the dub version.

Kinda OT but I don't see why some fans feel the need to bash fans who like the dub. I can understand if they're annoying you for false facts or whatever but just because they say "I prefer the dub" doesn't mean they're idiots.

[NeoKING]

Kinda OT but I don't see why some fans feel the need to bash fans who like the dub. I can understand if they're annoying you for false facts or whatever but just because they say "I prefer the dub" doesn't mean they're idiots.

That's how the internet is. If someone doesn't agree with your choice in animu language-viewing options, then you must be an idiot of some kind. The cure? Watch the sub and rise to the heavens of true entertainment.

Sarcasm and all.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Of course, dub fans are never guilty of any of that. *Looks at Youtube*

[NeoKING]

Of course, dub fans are never guilty of any of that. *Looks at Youtube*

Sarcasm radar off today, ?

[BluezaBladeNZ]

Youtube usually is a bad example when you want reasonable answers, well that's what I think.

While I usually like the original, I don't praise or think of it as the greatest thing ever like a holy grail, I just think it feels more serious (how it's presented) compared to what's seen in the dub. But with that being said, I still have a soft spot for the Ocean Dub, mostly because of nostalgia and the voice actors performance, even if the script is different and had the censoring. While Shuki Levy's score isn't as great as Kikuchi's, I still thoroughly enjoy it while watching it.

[dbgtFO]

Of course, dub fans are never guilty of any of that. *Looks at Youtube*

I agree with this.
There will always be some rotten eggs amongst certain parts of the fandom, but they shouldn't be considered as speaking for anyone but themselves!

@NeoKING
Generalization is a bad thing and it doesn't make either camp look good.. quite the contrary!

[NeoKING]

@NeoKING
Generalization is a bad thing and it doesn't make either camp look good.. quite the contrary!

Oh sorry, I wasn't aware that it was cardinal sin. I'll try to avoid it next time when speaking about experiences relating to the topic at hand.

[xzero]

I asked a question very similar to this a while ago, but I directed it to sub fans to point out what's wrong with their version.

Anyway, as a dub fan, here's what I think. The obvious for someone like me who grew up watching DBZ on Toonami back in the day is nostalgia, and that's why I still enjoy Season 3 as it originally was. It's like watching a bad movie; the script sucks, the actors are inexperienced, but there's just something about it that has a magical quality to it.

I also like Faulconer's music. I really like his Freeza Saga music, and some of the Buu stuff is awesome. The Androids/Cell stuff is alright. SSJ2 Gohan's music is excellent, but there's a lot of stuff that didn't need any music behind it and got it anyway.

As for what's wrong with the sub version, there's nothing inherently wrong it it. The soundtrack's mono on all domestic releases, but that's what Funi has to work with, so whatever. Goku's adult voice is an issue for some people out there, but for me, I'm kind of indifferent. The one thing I'm not too fond of is the music, which should come as no surprise because I like Faulconer's score. I can appreciate Kikuchi's score for what it is, but when people say Faulconer's is repetitive, I wonder how much of the original they listened to. The song from the Ginyu Force track on the Japanese albums (can't think of the name at the moment) plays repeatedly throughout the first two seasons. Over and over. And over. Ugh. Not a bad song, mind you, but it kills any credibility in an argument against Faulconer citing repetitiveness.

But you know what? I don't think it matters much in 2011. The dub v. sub thing is 10 years old, and is no longer an issue with Kai. We now have a domestic dub that is on par with the subtitled version; it's the kind of thing that probably would have resulted in a less divided fanbase if it is what they had from the beginning. Fans of Fullmetal Alchemist, Yu Yu Hakusho, and other Funi properties from 2000-2005 don't seem to argue nearly as much (if at all) about the qualities of dub v. sub for those series. Now with Kai, we have a version that is the Dragon Ball equivalent of Funi's Fullmetal Alchemist dub: a true to the original version with proper voices, an accurate script, and the original music left intact. It just seems to me that these sorts of arguments are kind of pointless at this point in time.

[NeoKING]

It just seems to me that these sorts of arguments are kind of pointless at this point in time.

Yep, pretty much this. Every version has their ups and downs that cater to whomever, so there's no real need to debate. I never really saw why people would even insinuate that one version is automatically better than the other as if it were solid fact in the first place. But, if it sucks so much that it bothers people then at least they have the manga.

[AgitoZ]

Question what dub fans are you asking? FUNi, Ocean, Spanish, Arabic, etc. If it doesn't matter which, I think the sub is great. Considering it's essentially the same as the dub, just in Japanese.

There's more than one dub people...

[Rocketman]

I hate Nozawa's voice.

Music, sure. Better (for the most part) dialogue, whatever. Everybody else's voices, fine.

But Goku and Gohan's (and Goten's, but he's in far less of the series) squawking, screechy vocalizations....urgh. It's like Spongebob, except that's a comedy show and he's supposed to be annoying.

[Innagadadavida]

I've more or less abandoned the English version of the original Z anime because I have better alternatives now. But I maintain that I'm a fan of both versions. What keeps me watching the dub of other shows, including Kai, is simple. Subtitles. I hate reading subtitles. It's distracting, obtrusive, and requires my full attention. Which is not something I'm apt to lend to any one thing at any given moment. Call me ignorant, call me a barbarian, it's all in the name of entertainment. I'll choose subtitles for something with a really bad dub like Fist of the North Star or any foreign live-action movies. But if I don't have an interest in a show to begin with, and I have to watch subtitles to enjoy it, well I just don't watch it.

[Ultimate_DB_Fan]

There's nothing wrong with the sub version necessarily, it's just that I simply don't prefer it. Once in a blue moon, I'll sometimes switch to the original out of curiosity, but it's mostly Funi's dub. Like certain users here have posted before, the manga came first, so I also don't have to praise the Japanese version 'cause that's what happened to come first.

With the dub, everything is hightened via Faulconer's music. Every moment matters. I don't just wanna SEE Goku coming out of Namek's water as a Super Saiyan when Freeza thought he was dead, I also wanna hear the dub's spirit bomb track playing as he comes out. It just adds enigmatic flavor.

Another thing would be how the dub score sounds more modern and up-beat instead of seeming somewhat dated. Sure, it doesn't stop playing, I know, but it's not as though it distracts me from what the characters are saying. It helps in the sense of diversity that every character and situation has theme music of its own. I will say, though, that I strongly feel that silence would've helped immensly when characters like Chi Chi were on screen.

Lastly, as mentioned by me before, the inacuracy simply gives me another version- another take on the story, if you will. I just don't see the problem with giving the characters personalities with distinct styles. They, of course, had that in the original to an extent, but it never worked for me. I can sort of understand the frustration about the dumbing down of the dub's script, but it simply doesn't bother nor matter to many of us dubbies.