The opinion of SSjs before Goku

[Piccolo Daimao]

I've heard people say that there were Super Saiyans before Goku, but I didn't get that from the story. I always saw it as Goku being the first Super Saiyan.

Could it just be that the supposed Super Saiyans before Goku were only thought to be? The legend described Super Saiyan as a level of strength, rather than a transformation, and it wasn't quite like some crazy lover for bloodshed and destruction like the legend said. After all, that's all it was. A legend, a myth, which even Vegeta himself doubted.

[kaialone]

I guess there was one SSJ before Goku and they based their legend on that <-- to me it is as simple as that

[TheGreatness25]

I don't see why there couldn't be Super Saiyans before Goku. Once every 1,000 years (I think that's what it was, right?). It's kind of like believing that the Wright brothers were the first to come up with the concept of airplanes. The ideas and models have existed way before them, they just perfected them and made them successful. Same here. I don't see why there couldn't be prehistoric Super Saiyans who just didn't have the humanity that Goku had. In other words, primitive, violent, angry, maybe even beasts with primitive communication who just destroyed things. And maybe they weren't necessarily as powerful as Goku was, or maybe even they were. Who is able to say for sure what happened 1,000 prior to that?

[the_abberration]

I've heard people say that there were Super Saiyans before Goku, but I didn't get that from the story. I always saw it as Goku being the first Super Saiyan.

Could it just be that the supposed Super Saiyans before Goku were only thought to be? After all, the legend described Super Saiyan as a level of strength, rather than a transformation, and it wasn't quite like some crazy lover for bloodshed and destruction like the legend said. After all, that's all it was. A legend, a myth, which even Vegeta himself doubted.

But then you have someone (Goku) who is not aware of the legend, become something the legend spoke of. Also, King Kai did mention something about Goku giving into his bloodlust when he wanted to stay and fight Freeza. For someone as laid back as Goku, the observation that he was acting out of the norm was made. Also, the eye shape change (trope) reflects his supposedly darker nature as well.

[LeprikanGT]

Didn't Vegeta have an internal monologue at some point and it showed the Golden Oozaru in the background? I always thought that is what they naturally looked like, and the characters we know now just have better control.

...Or was that filler?

[Fox666]

Filler

[Piccolo Daimao]

I've heard people say that there were Super Saiyans before Goku, but I didn't get that from the story. I always saw it as Goku being the first Super Saiyan.

Could it just be that the supposed Super Saiyans before Goku were only thought to be? After all, the legend described Super Saiyan as a level of strength, rather than a transformation, and it wasn't quite like some crazy lover for bloodshed and destruction like the legend said. After all, that's all it was. A legend, a myth, which even Vegeta himself doubted.

But then you have someone (Goku) who is not aware of the legend, become something the legend spoke of. Also, King Kai did mention something about Goku giving into his bloodlust when he wanted to stay and fight Freeza. For someone as laid back as Goku, the observation that he was acting out of the norm was made. Also, the eye shape change (trope) reflects his supposedly darker nature as well.

I'm saying SSj wasn't described as a transformation, but more like a level of strength you ascend to. Vegeta and Ginyu thought Goku, after landing on Namek, was the SSj after he defeated Reacoom, until they realized he was too soft to be one (because he spared the Ginyu Force). And although Goku became closer to what the legend said, he didn't become a full-on bloodthirsty maniac with no reason and who wanted to destroy everything in his path.

There's some extent to what is true and what is not in a legend. I don't believe in the "1,000" thing, because how are they to know if a Super Saiyan would appear once every 1,000 years? As I said before, it could just be some super-strong Saiyan, but who didn't actually transform. And do we have evidence that a Saiyan would even live for that long to see a Saiyan come round after a thousand years?

I honestly think that they just based it on some super-strong Saiyan who probably became insane with power and was killed or ended up destroying themself.

[Kaboom]

I think it's just that, somewhere along the way during those hundreds of years, the knowledge and details of just what a Super Saiyan really is became muddled and vague, and eventually grew into "legend" status. These are Saiyans we're talking about, after all. I doubt they place much priority on documenting history.

[Super Vegito]

I don't see why there couldn't be prehistoric Super Saiyans who just didn't have the humanity that Goku had. In other words, primitive, violent, angry...

I think you just described Broly. LOL!!

[MasterVampire]

Maybe they all just needed someone to demonstrate how to transform, and then a lot of others would have then been able to?

Like Goku teaching Gohan.

[Kingdom Heartless]

Maybe they all just needed someone to demonstrate how to transform, and then a lot of others would have then been able to?

Like Goku teaching Gohan.

That's how I've always seen it.

Goku is the legendary SSj, but it's a transformation that can be picked up. Everyone who transformed after that had (presumably) witnessed the transformation at one stage or another.

....well, except for Goku Jr.....

[Fox666]

Yeah, that sort of explains how Trunks and Goten could do it as kids

Maybe witnessing alone won't do the job and it has more to do with sensing the Ki of a Super Saiyan, which gives the same "feeling" from transforming on it

[Ranmarotto]

There was one Golden Oozaru who could not control the state of a Super Saiyajin. However, Kakkarot was the first to be able to control this state.

Or at least that's what the anime leads us to believe.

[TheGreatness25]

Would be a cool side story to show the caveman Super Saiyan lol

[Rory]

I always wondered what kind of event would lead up to a Saiyan becoming a Super Saiyan thousands of years ago, and how they (or he) would simply just die out. It really would be an interesting story.

[kaialone]

I always wondered what kind of event would lead up to a Saiyan becoming a Super Saiyan thousands of years ago, and how they (or he) would simply just die out. It really would be an interesting story.

Dont you have to be
1. Super-Mega-Strong (I dont like powerlevels)
2. Pure of heart

To go Super Saiyajin? If so then probably there were only very very few pure-hearted and/or Super-Mega-Strong Saiyajin back then.Maybe they started their space-pirate lifestyle after the appearence of the first SSJ and then it just got forgotten or they just werent "good" enough anymore (I hope you get what I'm saying) Also you have to remember that one reason why Goku (the first SSJ in generations) got so strong ,wasthat he almost died many times but was able to recover,but most of these recoveries were thanks to senzu´s,so its possible that without those senzu´s Goku would have died.Thus I think that the reason why not many Saiyajin were able to get so strong as Goku did ,was because they simply succumbed to fatal wounds and maybe didnt live that long and also didnt get so many powerups. Gohan was able to go SSJ at young age but he too was abe to survive some fatal injuries thanks to senzu´s and got his power unlocked by the Namekian Elder.Not to meantion that he is a half-human ich somehow makes him even more powerful.And Goten and Trunks...Well they're half-human ,too.And some argue that it was because their fathers already could go SSJ at their conception or because their fathers were already Super-Mega-Strong then.What I'm trying to say is that it was probably Super-Mega-Hard for the Saiyajin of 1000 years ago to reach that level.I mean humans of 1000 years ago (In real life) had much shorter lifespans and much lower IQs than the people of today.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Just want to copy something I posted in the "Your Fan Confessions".

I don't think the pure heart rule for Super Saiyan exists. Goku's speech on Namek was supoposed to be dramatic and philosophical, and I don't think the pure heart line was to be taken literally (at that time). Kuririn doesn't know shit about the rules of Super Saiyan, and Vegeta agreeing with him was just assumption based on the fact that two good guys could do it. Plus, I don't think Future Trunks has a pure heart either, since he doesn't appear any purer than the other Z-Warriors.

[Fox666]

Is it possible to exist such a plain separation beetween good and evil? It's hard to believe an adult Goku is pure, he even offered Bulma to the old Kaioshin...

[Piccolo Daimao]

Is it possible to exist such a plain separation beetween good and evil? It's hard to believe an adult Goku is pure, he even offered Bulma to the old Kaioshin...

I don't believe Goku was pure post-Freeza arc. He ignores Bulma's plan to use the DBs to find and kill Dr. Gero before he builds the Androids to fuel his own selfish desire of having a good fight (resulting in many innocent people's deaths in the process), holds back against Boo because he wants the kids to destroy them (again, resulting in many innocent people's deaths) and offers up Bulma to the old Kaioshin.

And no-one can tell me that he was just being naive like he was as a kid. He'd had sex with Chi-Chi at least twice, asked Kaioshin if he minded if Bulma was middle-aged and said the reason he didn't offer up Chi-Chi was that she was flat-chested. He knew what he was doing.

[Fox666]

He'd had sex with Chi-Chi at least twice,

At least, but Gohan conception happened in less than 3 months after they started to live togheder (5 years minus Gohan's age and nine 9 months).

And considering that Goten doesn't exist in the future, is it possible that Goten conception happened in the 10 days of training before the Cell Games? Wow, this would make the manga support these hentais which Goku always turn Super Saiyan while fucking Chi-chi

Okay, this is off-topic, the important thing is that Goku should have a lot of sex