Ki blasts destroying the planet

[SylentEcho]

How come early on in Z we see the earth in danger of being blown up by Vegeta's galic gun, but when the Super Warriors and villans later on are several times more powerful than they were, the planet never blows up? Only a fraction of the landscape ever gets blown to bits.

I can accept the fact that this happens on Namek because one could assume it's a tougher planet than Earth and can withstand a lot of Ki blasts, but how come during the Cell arc and the Boo arc earth stays intact in spite of so many Ki attacks, but was in danger of being blown up by the galic gun which was just 26000 or something?

[CatouttaHell]

Simple, it's retcons. If they didn't retcon any power feats and just kept increasing them, guys like Cell would destroy the solar system by sneezing IMO. We just get some random small indicator of where characters stand once in a while, like Cell's solar system claim, the Anime-only scene where Chibi Boo's incredible power lets Boohan almost destroy the entire universe, etc.

[Savage68]

The Earth wears an absurdly durable set of plot armor in comics, generally speaking. It's only in danger of blowing up when it's an important plot point.

[SuperForteX]

The Earth wears an absurdly durable set of plot armor in comics, generally speaking. It's only in danger of blowing up when it's an important plot point.

Board index » DragonBall » In-Universe Discussion

[violadude]

The Earth wears an absurdly durable set of plot armor in comics, generally speaking. It's only in danger of blowing up when it's an important plot point.

Board index » DragonBall » In-Universe Discussion

I don't get it. What are you trying to say?

[SuperForteX]

Really? Unless Goku and co. know they're characters in a manga, then saying things like "plot armor" is an out-of-universe explanation. As opposed to, oh I don't know, saying by that point in time the characters had utter mastery over their abilites and know how to not destroy every planet they're fighting on.

[CatouttaHell]

This forum would be pretty boring if every question/debate was answered with "well this is so because Toriyama wanted it to be so."

[violadude]

Really? Unless Goku and co. know they're characters in a manga, then saying things like "plot armor" is an out-of-universe explanation. As opposed to, oh I don't know, saying by that point in time the characters had utter mastery over their abilites and know how to not destroy every planet they're fighting on.

Ya but I think the point of the "in-universe" discussion section is to discuss issues that are of an in-universe nature. Explaining things with an in-universe answer or an out of universe answer is fine I think as long as your discussing a topic that is an "in-universe" topic.

[SuperForteX]

This forum would be pretty boring if every question/debate was answered with "well this is so because Toriyama wanted it to be so."

This.

What Savage did was no better than me going into any topic asking anything about Vegeta and posting

It doesn't matter, Vegeta only exists because Akira Toriyama needed a villain to come to Earth and challange Goku. He's worthless, just a plot device.

Pretty rude, huh?

[violadude]

This forum would be pretty boring if every question/debate was answered with "well this is so because Toriyama wanted it to be so."

This.

What Savage did was no better than me going into any topic asking anything about Vegeta and posting

It doesn't matter, Vegeta only exists because Akira Toriyama needed a villain to come to Earth and challange Goku. He's worthless, just a plot device.

Pretty rude, huh?

Eh, not necessarily. Savage wasn't denying that there could be an in-universe explanation to the topic. He was just pointing out a general observation he noticed.

[Fox666]

Do they really have the power to vaporize a planet, or is it a special technique?

http://www.kanzentai.com/trans-daiz07.p ... troy_earth

Single Attack that Destroys the Earth
[chikyuu houkai no ichigeki]

First Appears Chapter 508
Category Ki Manipulation
User(s) Majin Buu (pure)
Characteristics A technique where he levitates a gigantic spherical ki over the palm of his hand, then strikes the ground with it. Through the ki's power, the magma within the Earth swells and explodes. This technique wiped out the Earth without leaving a trace behind. Freeza also uses a similar technique. (Daizenshuu 2, p. 216)

[Piccolo Daimao]

Characters just control their blasts to make sure they don't destroy the planet. Like how Vegeta diverted his Final Flash away from the Earth and into space so he only focused his beam on Cell. It's only when they actually intend to blow up the planet or can't control their power due to being angry (like Vegeta when he fired a full-power blast at Freeza, and Piccolo shouted that it would destroy the planet, but Freeza knocked it away) that the planet is in danger of being blown up.

Do they really have the power to vaporize a planet, or is it a special technique?

http://www.kanzentai.com/trans-daiz07.p ... troy_earth

Well, Kid Boo's energy ball doesn't have a name, nor does Freeza's (which was named "Death Ball" in the video games). Any attack with enough power (and no control) can destroy the planet, like Vegeta's Galick Gun or Cell's self-destruction.

[Savage68]

I find that daizenshuu entry a little perplexing, because kid Boo's ki attack obviously eradicated the Earth in an explosion much larger than necessary. That couldn't have been triggered or carried out through "exploding magma" or anything like that.

And I can't really buy that all of these involved characters "control" their ki attacks, because if that were the case, it wouldn't have been such a unique contingency plan for the Final Flash, and / or nobody would've been worrying themselves over Goku's Instant Kamehameha. Then there are those moments involving villains that I'm sure couldn't have cared too strongly in one direction about the planet's safety, like when Gotenks-absorbed Boo's ki blast missed, hit the Earth's surface, exploded, but didn't even make a dent worth noting.

[Piccolo Daimao]

And I can't really buy that all of these involved characters "control" their ki attacks, because if that were the case, it wouldn't have been such a unique contingency plan for the Final Flash, and / or nobody would've been worrying themselves over Goku's Instant Kamehameha. Then there are those moments involving villains that I'm sure couldn't have cared too strongly in one direction about the planet's safety, like when Gotenks-absorbed Boo's ki blast missed, hit the Earth's surface, exploded, but didn't even make a dent worth noting.

Characters always worry over things they've seen before. Kuririn and Trunks still worried about Goku's Shunkan-Ido Kamehameha, even after they'd seen Vegeta's Final Flash. And I think that villains would've cared about whether or not the planet exploded, considering they like to play with their opponent. I'm sure Gotenks-Boo wanted to beat the crap out of Gohan for a while before destroying the planet.

[Savage68]

Characters always worry over things they've seen before. Kuririn and Trunks still worried about Goku's Shunkan-Ido Kamehameha, even after they'd seen Vegeta's Final Flash.

That's the same example I just brought up and why an active control over destruction isn't a very reliable excuse. It would be a non-issue if there was such an easy out.

And I think that villains would've cared about whether or not the planet exploded, considering they like to play with their opponent. I'm sure Gotenks-Boo wanted to beat the crap out of Gohan for a while before destroying the planet.

I'm sure he wanted to beat the crap out of Gohan, too, but what I'm not willing to believe is that he nor anyone else that's evil would actively minimize the scale of damage their attack deal for that reason (or... any reason, other than their own well being), especially when that hasn't even been suggested in-universe or out.

[jackjack]

No amount of ki control will change the fact that blasts from characters in the Boo arc (fat Boo's Kame that made direct contact with the Earth also comes to mind) should've been more than powerful enough to destroy the Earth 100 times over. AT wrote himself into a corner with this one.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Characters always worry over things they've seen before. Kuririn and Trunks still worried about Goku's Shunkan-Ido Kamehameha, even after they'd seen Vegeta's Final Flash.

That's the same example I just brought up and why an active control over destruction isn't a very reliable excuse. It would be a non-issue if there was such an easy out.

But the thing is, it is used as an excuse, in the series itself.

And I think that villains would've cared about whether or not the planet exploded, considering they like to play with their opponent. I'm sure Gotenks-Boo wanted to beat the crap out of Gohan for a while before destroying the planet.

I'm sure he wanted to beat the crap out of Gohan, too, but what I'm not willing to believe is that he nor anyone else that's evil would actively minimize the scale of damage their attack deal for that reason (or... any reason, other than their own well being), especially when that hasn't even been suggested in-universe or out.

Well, Freeza detonated Namek's core because he was scared of getting caught in the explosion. And Piccolo's full power shockwave at the 23rd TB doesn't destroy the planet either. Besides, if they didn't care about whether their attack would destroy the planet or not, they'd just blow it up on purpose instantly and kill everyone. But they don't, because they want to play around with their enemies before intentionally destroying the planet.

[Savage68]

But the thing is, it is used as an excuse, in the series itself.

Yes, one or two times. Hence the "very reliable" part. The only elaboration ever given for it is "he narrowed his attack and so it was diverted into outer space," and that obviously couldn't the case for, say, any attack that we see touch ground and peter out.

Well, Freeza detonated Namek's core because he was scared of getting caught in the explosion. And Piccolo's full power shockwave at the 23rd TB doesn't destroy the planet either. Besides, if they didn't care about whether their attack would destroy the planet or not, they'd just blow it up on purpose instantly and kill everyone. But they don't, because they want to play around with their enemies before intentionally destroying the planet.

It takes just as much power to destroy a planet's core as it does to destroy a planet, anyway. A planet's core doesn't magically detonate because an otherwise insufficient amount of power disrupted it. And I'm pretty sure that Freeza would've survived Namek's explosion, since, y'know, he did so later on, with little power remaining. No one presumes that planet-busting was ever established by the time the 23rd Tournament rolled around, either (nor do shockwaves destroy planets). I never said that the villains didn't care; I said that I'm unwilling to believe that most of these "contradictory" instances can be chalked up to this assumption that they place any kind of significant emphasis on keeping the planet intact in the midst of battle. I don't even buy that for the heroes.

[Piccolo Daimao]

But the thing is, it is used as an excuse, in the series itself.

Yes, one or two times. Hence the "very reliable" part. The only elaboration ever given for it is "he narrowed his attack and so it was diverted into outer space," and that obviously couldn't the case for, say, any attack that we see touch ground and peter out.

OK. Fair enough.

Well, Freeza detonated Namek's core because he was scared of getting caught in the explosion. And Piccolo's full power shockwave at the 23rd TB doesn't destroy the planet either. Besides, if they didn't care about whether their attack would destroy the planet or not, they'd just blow it up on purpose instantly and kill everyone. But they don't, because they want to play around with their enemies before intentionally destroying the planet.

It takes just as much power to destroy a planet's core as it does to destroy a planet, anyway. A planet's core doesn't magically detonate because an otherwise insufficient amount of power disrupted it. And I'm pretty sure that Freeza would've survived Namek's explosion, since, y'know, he did so later on, with little power remaining. No one presumes that planet-busting was ever established by the time the 23rd Tournament rolled around, either (nor do shockwaves destroy planets). I never said that the villains didn't care; I said that I'm unwilling to believe that most of these "contradictory" instances can be chalked up to this assumption that they place any kind of significant emphasis on keeping the planet intact in the midst of battle. I don't even buy that for the heroes.

Well, yeah, I know that a planet's core doesn't magically detonate because an otherwise insufficient amount of power disrupted it. That's just Toriyama, who's no PhD But Freeza was afraid of getting caught in the explosion. Goku points it out, and Freeza doesn't refute it.

And yeah, forget about the Piccolo thing. I guess it's just plot stuff.

[Savage68]

When Goku asserted that Namek's explosion was what caused Freeza to hold back, it's met with laughter. Add that to Freeza's later "if I get caught in the explosion I may lose a good deal of my power" or whatever and the fact that an even weaker Freeza did survive it, and I think it paints a pretty convincing picture that Goku was just talking out of his ass.