Manga Contradiction

Trunks Master Swordsman03 · Post by **Trunks Master Swordsman03** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:39 pm

OK, I found a contradiction in the Manga on the topic of Future Androids Vs.Present Androids.....

Both come in Volume 14.....

Page 87- Trunks (reffering to present androids): ...they were a little different from the androids I knew...those one's weren't that terribly strong..I could put up a decent fight myself.

Page 117- Trunks (reffering to Present droids): But I've come to a past that's slightly different from the one I knew, the timing of Goku's illness was different, there are 3 androids, & they are much much stronger.

??????

Kodoshin · Post by **Kodoshin** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:43 pm

Your comprehension is the issue, he's saying that the artificial humans from his timeline are weaker than the ones in the timeline he's currently in.

Super DC · Post by **Super DC** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:08 pm

Page 87- Trunks (reffering to present androids): ...they were a little different from the androids I knew...those one's weren't that terribly strong..I could put up a decent fight myself.

You have it wrong Trunks was referring to the androids of his future.

*PINHEAD* · Post by ***PINHEAD*** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:29 pm

Indeed. For some strange reason, maybe something to do with Trunks's and Cell's tampering with time, or just for some random, out of the blue happening, the Androids in the present Dragon Ball timeline we see were stronger than the ones he grew to be familiar with. Trunks hadn't known of #19 or #20; perhaps they were as easily disposed of in his timeline just like in the current one, or maybe they just never appeared. Son Goku's illness was delayed also out of some random reason or maybe the training he underwent delayed it. And, of course, #16 wasn't activated in his timeline.

Trunks Master Swordsman03 · Post by **Trunks Master Swordsman03** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:15 pm

OK, I understabd, I just mis-interprited (sp.?) it.

Caracal · Post by **Caracal** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:07 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't #17 and #18 called #19 and #20 in Trunk's time line? It's been a while since I last read the DBZ books and I don't have them wirth me, but I'm pretty sure he warned everyone, he used the names #19 and #20.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:10 pm

No he didn't use any names. He just said it was two androids. That's why later on Goku had to ask who #19 and #20 exactly were when they first encountered them.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:09 pm

It is correct. It's one of those little manga "mistakes". When Trunks first explains the jinzouningen to Goku, he uses the specific numbers 19 and 20.

What I believe the story is... is that Toriyama-sensei's editor absolutely hated how disgusting and unattractive #19 and #20 were, so he somewhat forced him into creating #17 & #18 (and then Cell, who was more disgusting than any of the rest

). So initially, it was #19 & #20 that were intended to be "the two jinzouningen" that arrive...

But work-place politics came into play, and they wrote around it

. Amazingly enough, in neither the Viz nor kanzenban release did they "fix" this mis-write (despite the kanzenban censoring/fixing a few other minor things).

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:41 pm

Yeah, when I first saw that I was wondering whether Viz screwed up or not. It's kind of funny how in the dub they screwed up with Gero's position in the RRA, but they didn't mention the androids by name, hence avoiding that screw up.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:37 pm

VegettoEX wrote:(despite the kanzenban censoring/fixing a few other minor things).

Sorry to go off-topic, but censoring?!

*PINHEAD* · Post by ***PINHEAD*** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:08 pm

Not so much censoring in the sense you're thinking of. It's more like editting all the problems present before.

Toriyama originally planned #19 and #20 to be the true villains of the story arc, but then the editors made him change the focus of the story, which is the case with the Buu saga and the whole continuation of Dragon Ball after the Freeza saga.

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:29 pm

VegettoEX wrote:What I believe the story is... is that Toriyama-sensei's editor absolutely hated how disgusting and unattractive #19 and #20 were, so he somewhat forced him into creating #17 & #18 (and then Cell, who was more disgusting than any of the rest ).

Yup! Here's a piece of the original interview taken from Greg Werner's site. (I don't think you can access the site anymore, unfortunately). Originally printed in the Shen Long Times, Volume 2:

Fuyuto Takeda (3rd Editor), Yuu Kondo (2nd Editor) and Kazuhiko Torishima (1st Editor)

Toriyama: You're saying that Torishima? That's terrible. Remember that time Artificial Humans 19 and 20 appeared? You weren't in the management position at the time, but you called me at my house and said, "Mr. Toriyama, after waiting for the enemy, it turns out to be just an old man and a fat guy." (laughing) Truth is, we had only planned to use 19 and 20. We had another choice, so we sent 17 and 18. And you said, "I'm dissapointed, they're just kids.". So I sent Cell.

Takeda: You mean you didn't plan to send Cell?

Toriyama: That's right. I liked 19 and 20. Later I ended up liking 1st Stage Cell.

Takeda: That bug? You liked that bug?

Toriyama: Then Kondo said, "He looks okay, but of course he can change". So we decided to change him to a second form.

Kondo: Really? I don't remember that.

Toriyama: After that, Kondo was terribly mean. He said, "This time, Cell looks stupid. Why not make him Perfect?".

Kondo: Well, it looked...really stupid! (laughs)

Toriyama: Second stage, I liked that, and I wanted him to have more time, but we had no choice but to change him. So we made a Perfect Cell, which Kondo liked.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:30 am

VegettoEX wrote:It is correct. It's one of those little manga "mistakes". When Trunks first explains the jinzouningen to Goku, he uses the specific numbers 19 and 20.

Gosh, I didn't even remember that in the manga. Well it's been ages since I read it and apparently I'm losing my memory too. >_>

Demi · Post by **Demi** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:36 am

I just thought Trunks never saw 19 or 20 because they were managed to be killed in his time.

Pedro The Hutt · Post by **Pedro The Hutt** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:43 am

I reckon that in the Trunks timeline, Gero just never got the idea to turn himself into an artificial human, nor to make another one after 18.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:33 am

I figure that 19 and 20 were destroyed easily enough by Vegeta. Well, 20 probably escaped and activate 17 and 18 before they killed him. As for 16, 17 and 18 probably just didn't activate him.

Pedro The Hutt · Post by **Pedro The Hutt** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:58 am

Well, that's also perfectly possible. =D Funny how a few different decisions can make for a whole alternate universe.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:06 pm

Ya. Well, a few choices and some very picky editors. XD

*PINHEAD* · Post by ***PINHEAD*** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:22 pm

Gosh...seeing how I just mentioned all those possibilities in my first post....

Mike D · Post by **Mike D** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:45 pm

Pedro The Hutt wrote:I reckon that in the Trunks timeline, Gero just never got the idea to turn himself into an artificial human...

Then what happened to him? I believe he was killed by the Androids (#17).