My thoughts on Chibi Boo and SSjin 3 Goku's powers

[CatouttaHell]

Now, I know this is an extremely controversial topic (and to some of us, a religious debate apparently) but I simply wanted to post all of my thoughts on the matter as dbgtFO did a while ago with the SSjin 2 Gohan/Dabra thing. Honestly, I just want to have all of my reasons for believing this in a single place so I don't have to keep repeating myself at least once a week. I understand I won't change very many opinions about this, as anybody who suggests Chibi Boo may be stronger than SSjin 3 Gotenks and Chou Gohan is usually instantly assumed to be a delusional fanboy, a newbie, or an escaped mental patient. I hope you'll at least read the thread instead of outright dismissing me as one of those.

A HUGE thank you to Herms for his Strength Checker. It was a huge help in this post (as you can tell from all the manga quotes.)

Anyhow, first off, there's two quotes from the manga that people always bring up non-stop whenever any debate like this comes up. I'll start by explaining why they can still logically work with a Chibi Boo > Shin Boo viewpoint. The quotes in question are:

Chapter: 507 (DBZ 313), P4.2-4, P6.3-6
Context: as Goku and Vegeta are attacked by evil Boo
Goku: “Alrii—iight! Come at me if you’re gonna. I’ll open up a huge hole inside your body! *Boo smiles* Wh-what are you smiling about?...Do you think I can’t open one?”
Boo: “It’s no use.”
Goku: “Don’t underestimate me.”
*Goku blasts, not much happens*
Goku: “…”
Vegeta: “…It di-didn’t have any effect…”
Boo: “It stung a little here, that’s all. You guys are now far, far smaller than flees.”
Goku: “…So we’ve got no choice but to defeat you and then search for an exit somewhere.”
Boo: “No, you can’t defeat me. Not the way you guys are now…You’re gonna die, not me…”

Chapter: 506 (DBZ 312), P12.4-5
Context: after Goku and Vegeta revert Boo back to regular evil Boo
Goku: “Hehhe~~eh! With this, Boo’s power should have fallen significantly! We’re almost there! See, see: the size of his ki is completely different than before!”
Vegeta: “Alright! Let’s blast out of here and escape!”
Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength! If we go outside like this, we’ll definitely be done in…!”

The key words here are "like this." How was Goku supposed to know they'd stop being smaller than flies after they left Boo's body? Boo even suggests that the reason they can't win is because they're tiny and inside his crazy, Boo body that he has impossible control over. The other explanation is that Goku didn't want to turn SSjin 3 to avoid infuriating Vegeta. Don't forget, Vegeta had previously SOLD HIS SOUL just to match what he thought was Goku's real power, and they almost got killed because Vegeta refused to fuse because of his anger, despite Boohan speeding towards them. Goku also turned SSjin when Shin Boo confronted him, instead of SSjin 3. I think that scene alone is good proof that he just wanted to avoid causing more disaster by infuriating Vegeta that much. He DID go SSjin 3 against Chibi Boo later on, but that was only after Vegeta had approved of it.

Now, on to the evidence that suggests Chibi Boo is stronger than Shin Boo and possibly even Chou Gohan. For one, Buff Boo being stronger than Shin Boo is a confirmed fact.

Chapter: 507 (DBZ 313), P13.5
Context: as evil Boo reverts to his South Kaioshin form
Goku: “H-hey…Vegeta…His ki is increasing, ain’t it…!?”

Buff Boo, however, is nothing more than Chibi Boo with the strongest of the Kaioshin inside him. Teen Gohan pulled the Z-Sword out in his SSjin form, which is something no Kaioshin could do. So really, just how could Shin Boo possibly be stronger than Chibi Boo if he's weaker than Buff Boo, who is at most just Chibi Boo with someone a tiny fraction of his power added to him? Buff Boo > Chibi Boo seems to be a universally accepted "fact" but it's likely even THAT isn't absolutely true.

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P4.2-7
Kaioshin: “In m…my era there were five Kaioshins…until they were defeated by the Majin Boo that the wizard Babidi created…I was the youngest and most powerless one, but I somehow survived, with only heavy injuries…But the other four fell to Boo…First, two were killed…the North Kaioshin and the West Kaioshin….And then the South Kaioshin, the burliest and strongest one, was…somehow absorbed by Boo….. “
Elder Kaioshin: …And he became that huge Boo from before? “
Kaioshin: “…Yes…Next to be absorbed was the fat but kind and gentle Dai-Kaioshin….The Majin Boo that Bibidi created was evil itself, a failed creation that even Bibidi himself couldn’t handle, but by absorbing the Dai-Kaioshin, he somehow become controllable…. “
Elder Kaioshin: “…So he was finally complete…Which is to say…that this current…small Majin Boo…is the initial…mo…most troublesome one…”
Kaioshin: “….Yes…the heart which he gained by going so far as to lower his power through absorption…has returned once again to the way it was…he has no self-control whatsoever…he has become evil itself…”

The Japanese language has no plural, so we don't actually know if Toriyama meant that Boo's power lowered through a single Kaioshin absorption or BOTH Kaioshin absorptions. Vegeta mocks Buff Boo after he turns into Chibi Boo but he's only mocking the fact that he went from being ridiculously bulky to being short and skinny. There is absolutely no mention of him getting weaker. Neither Goku nor Vegeta could possibly have been basing their statements on Chibi Boo's power anyway, because he'd have to be below SSjin 2 Vegeta for that to be so.

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P3.4-6
Context: after Boo reverts to his pure form
Goku: “…”
Vegeta: “……Heh…Heheheh…Look! He’s shrunk down quite a bit!”
Goku: “We did it! This way, we might be able to manage something.”
Context: ‘He’s shrunk’ refers to Boo’s body, not his ki.

This very much mirrors the two previous main villains and their final forms actually. Vegeta assumed he was a Super Saiya-jin after Dende healed him and was convinced Final Form Freeza, who was incredibly puny-looking compared to what he was in his last two forms, was nothing to him. The situation with Cell mirrored the Chibi Boo situation even more.

Chapter: 382 (DBZ 188), P11.2
Context: after Cell reaches finally his perfect form
Vegeta: “Kukkukkuh…So even his perfect form doesn’t look like anything special. He’s even gotten smaller than he was before.”

No mention of Perfect Cell's power, which was enough to tank a kick to the head from Vegeta like it was nothing, is made here at all. Vegeta bases his views of Chibi Boo and Perfect Cell's powers on nothing but how they physically look compared to their previous forms. Both times the villains arguably turn out to be far stronger than they were in their last forms, however. SSjin 3 Goku's power against Chibi Boo is implied to be on a completely different tier than it was against Fat Boo as well. Vegeta already knew of Goku's SSjin 3 but the power he and Chibi Boo put out completely blew his mind.

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P12.6
Vegeta: “The truth is you were right [that I’d be killed]. That Boo is stronger than I imagined…And so are you, Kakarot…”

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P8.2
Context: as Goku fights pure Boo
Vegeta: “Kakarot…You’re incredible…I am simply no match for that Majin Boo…You’re the only one capable of fighting him…”

Now, people will counter this by saying that either Gohan and Gotenks are dead, or that Vegeta didn't know how strong they were. For the former, Vegeta is also dead and he's on the battlefield along with Goku, Enma Daio-sama wouldn't just refuse to send more dead people to the battlefield if it meant saving the entire universe. For the latter, Vegeta knew damn well how strong Boohan was, and how strong Shin Boo was after Chou Gohan's power was taken from him. Goku's statements prove they could sense his power from inside him. Judging by this, Vegeta should know how strong Chou Gohan is, yet still declared that Goku is the only one capable of fighting Chibi Boo. Speaking of Vegeta quotes...

Chapter: 514 (DBZ 320), P7.4
Context: after Vegeta has the Earth brought back with the dragonballs
Goku: “Oh, I know! You’ll bring Gohan and Gotenks back to life so they can fight.”
Vegeta: “No.”

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P13.1
Vegeta: “Don’t hesitate for my sake, and finish him off! With that Super Saiyan 3, you should be able to completely wipe out Buu with your ki once you gather it with all your might…!”

There's a clear distinction being made here. If Goku utilises the full power of his SSjin 3 he can wipe out Boo with his Ki once he gathers it with all his might. However, Gohan and Gotenks COMBINED would only be able to FIGHT, not destroy Chibi Boo. Yes, Goku does find the idea of a Genki Dama crazy, but why wouldn't he? For one, the Genki Dama did not defeat a single canon villain yet. For two, Chibi Boo had outrageous power and it would take an outrageous amount of power and a very long time to create one that big. And all that time they had to somehow keep Boo occupied. He's not going to notice that Goku's creating an increasingly massive attack to kill him and just sit around waiting for it to be done. Goku didn't think Gohan and Gotenks would be able to kill Boo either and he knew their powers already, as shown when he said they'd FIGHT him. It's likely his whole plan was to have them fight while he sat around and hopefully regained some of his strength.

Finally, I'll finish this rant off with some evidence that suggests Chibi Boo is even stronger than SSjin 3 Goku.

Chapter: 516 (DBZ 322), P11.2-3
Context: after Polunga restores Goku’s stamina and he’s about to finish Boo off with the Genki-Dama
Goku: “…You’re amazin’. You hung in there really well…All on your own…This time, be reborn as a good guy…I wanna fight you one-on-one…I’ll be waiting…And I’ll have gotten much, much better…See ya later!”

Son Goku wants to fight Chibi Boo, much later down the line when he's gotten much stronger. Goku never once implies he has any interest in fighting Chou Gohan or SSjin 3 Gotenks whatsoever, even with his current strength. However, he's extremely excited over the prospect of a rematch with Chibi Boo after he's done a massive amount of training even before he's technically finished his first match with him.

Chapter: 517 (DBZ 323), P4.6
Context: as Satan wants them to spare good Boo
Vegeta: “…Don’t you get it!? What do you intend to do if he gives birth to the terrible Boo again!? This time for sure it might really mean the end of the world! It’s best to kill him now. Got that, you idiot?!”

Now, I've seen people counter this quote by saying Chibi Boo blew the Earth up the moment he appeared. While that's true, you also have to take into account the fact that for the entire remainder of his appearance he was interested in only fighting/torturing any strong guys he could find. This quote could just as likely be referring to the fact that they got lucky with the Genki Dama this time, and simply aren't ready to fight guys like Chibi Boo, even with every single one of them there to do it.

Chapter: 517 (DBZ 323), P5.4-5
Context: after Goku tells Dende to heal good Boo
Goku: “Well, it’s alright, ain’t it Vegeta? This Boo and Mister Satan both did well. If these two hadn’t been here, then we and everyone else would have been done in. Right?…And if worse comes to worse, we can just fight again. Let’s train so that this time for sure we won’t lose even if we go one-on-one.”

Goku states he'll be training so this time he can fight Boo even one-on-one. At the current powers of the Z-Senshi, nobody is strong enough to defeat Chibi Boo in a one-on-one.

And that's all I have to say about this. I hope the administrators/moderators don't mind this topic being brought up yet again. I welcome any counters, etc to my points but please try to avoid turning it into a nasty debate that would eventually get the thread locked like the previous Chibi Boo/Shin Boo debate.