Yet Another Trunks Question

[Cipher]

I just have a quick question.

I was watching the episode where Cell explains his origin to Piccolo this morning. Cell arrived four years before the conversation takes place (i.e. one year before Freeza came to Earth), but says he didn't specifically program the time machine; he just pressed a button and it was already set for that year. Piccolo then speculates that Trunks must have been returning to the past to tell them he'd defeated the Androids.

Uh, what? Trunks was going back to tell them the good news a full year before he arrived in the first place?

Right before Cell says it was pre-programmed, Piccolo even asks "Why did you come to this era?" It makes it seem like Toriyama just forgot Cell had actually arrived four years prior, even though they just talked about that moments before.

Ignoring over-complicated theories like "Maybe this Trunks had originally gone to the past earlier," or "Maybe he was going to tell them how to stop the Androids before he first arrived and change history again," is there any way to explain this? Or is it just the most ridiculous screw-up in the series?

[Fox666]

I suppose there really isn't any reason behind that specific date? Much like leaving a random website open after you leave the computer

But wait, how Cell pressed the button if he turned in an egg?

[Bussani]

Maybe it was set for a more logical date and Cell sat on a button without realizing it while climbing in.

[Rawring Ninja]

But wait, how Cell pressed the button if he turned in an egg?

Mayhaps he pressed the button and then turned into an egg? ._.

[Bussani]

But wait, how Cell pressed the button if he turned in an egg?

Mayhaps he pressed the button and then turned into an egg? ._.

That was my first thought, but...the time machine would have to have some significant delay between the "Go" button being pushed, the canopy closing, and disappearing into the time-stream...unless Cell can turn into an egg very quickly.

[jackjack]

Not only that, it seems Cell came to a different timeline than the one Trunks originally planned to travel to, no? Or another Trunks randomly showed up in this new timeline that Cell created by going back a year earlier.

[goldsaint13]

Don't forget the "in-between" timeline... The one not even mentioned by DB Forever and the one where the dinension 1 Trunks traveled, the same dimension 1 from where the Cell we know came...

The first Trunks came to the past, we don't know when, but possibly his travel caused no drammatic alterations, so that Goku got ill at the right time and healed himself... Then maybe the Androids had been defeated by the combined efforts of the three Super Saiyans (the Android 13 Movie could be a sequel to this timeline)... Trunks returned to the future from this timeline and managet to somehow defeat the Androids but then he was killed by Cell who theft his Time Machine that was set to return a year before the arrival of the other Trunks, that choosed a different time to arrive... Maybe the first Trunks arrived 5 years before and stayed on Earth hidden to analyze the situation and that's why he returned one year after to inform of his success in the future...

[Cipher]

The first Trunks came to the past, we don't know when, but possibly his travel caused no drammatic alterations, so that Goku got ill at the right time and healed himself... Then maybe the Androids had been defeated by the combined efforts of the three Super Saiyans (the Android 13 Movie could be a sequel to this timeline)... Trunks returned to the future from this timeline and managet to somehow defeat the Androids but then he was killed by Cell who theft his Time Machine that was set to return a year before the arrival of the other Trunks, that choosed a different time to arrive... Maybe the first Trunks arrived 5 years before and stayed on Earth hidden to analyze the situation and that's why he returned one year after to inform of his success in the future...

So, yeah. There's no answer that's not completely made-up and ridiculously complicated.

For everyone who still didn't understand, the problem with the scene is that Cell's time machine arrived the year before Freeza showed up. Piccolo then asks him why he came to "this era" (even though he actually arrived four years ago). Cell then says he didn't pick the time; it was already set by Trunks. Piccolo then speculates (which the viewer is supposed to take for granted as the truth) that Trunks must have been preparing to tell them all he'd beaten the Androids. But Trunks traveling back a year before he even warned them all makes absolutely no sense. He'd be giving the good news to people he hadn't even met yet, and creating another timeline by doing so.

We'd have to be dealing with an entirely different timeline for Trunks in order for this to make sense. One in which he, I don't know, beat the Androids on his own somehow and still decided he needed to go warn people in the past. Or one in which for no reason he decided to travel to Earth a year before he did in the main timeline (which he wouldn't, because he picked the date Goku would be getting back to Earth specifically). Either one is just ridiculous, and then Piccolo's line serves absolutely no purpose other than to be confusing. So I guess this is just a really, really egregious moment of "Toriyama forgot"? (Like, he must have forgotten what year Cell arrived between one chapter and the next.)

(Also, to everyone asking about how Cell started the time machine as an egg, the anime shows him pushing the button as he's transforming back into his larval form. So there you go.)

Maybe it was set for a more logical date and Cell sat on a button without realizing it while climbing in.

Honestly, this is the only in-universe explanation that makes sense.

[Zephyr]

Perhaps he was going back to give the shutdown controllers/blueprints to them? Doesn't seem that ridiculous.

[Bussani]

Perhaps he was going back to give the shutdown controllers/blueprints to them? Doesn't seem that ridiculous.

That would just create a new timeline, though. Seems a little pointless. Future Bulma did say she wanted there to be a happy version of history, I guess, but does that mean the timeline they got the blueprints from just wasn't happy enough?

[TripleRach]

The Namekkians left Earth a year before Freeza arrived. It's possible Trunks wanted to talk to them about getting a new God and/or set of Dragon Balls. He could either shove Dende into the time machine with him, or he could just find out where the new planet is (and have mom build a spaceship).

That seems like the only plausible explanation for that year to me, other than Cell accidentally pushing buttons.

[Cipher]

Perhaps he was going back to give the shutdown controllers/blueprints to them? Doesn't seem that ridiculous.

So we'd be dealing with a Trunks who, for whatever reason, had never gone to the past before and rather than warning Goku about the Androids, decided to provide the blueprints instead? And he arrived a year before Goku returned for some reason? Where did he even get the blueprints (which were only found in the past)?

If he had gotten the blueprints in the past, why would he then return to an even earlier date and knowingly create another splinter timeline?

The Namekkians left Earth a year before Freeza arrived. It's possible Trunks wanted to talk to them about getting a new God and/or set of Dragon Balls. He could either shove Dende into the time machine with him, or he could just find out where the new planet is (and have mom build a spaceship).

Again though, he'd be creating a new timeline. So we're either dealing with an arbitrarily different Trunks, who had never gone to the past before and rather than warning Goku, chose to revive the Dragon Balls instead. Or we're dealing with a Trunks mostly the same as the one we see (which makes more sense), but who would be needlessly altering the timeline yet again.

And either way, Piccolo's guess is then just plain wrong, which is obviously not the intent.

I guess what bothers me most about this is how easily it could have been avoided. It's like Toriyama wanted to toss readers a bone and provide a reason for Cell to be in that specific period. So he threw in this plothole-creating "it was already set for that year" line.

But the really obvious reason for him to have traveled to that year would be that it was four years before Androids 17 and 18 were released. He says it takes him four years to regrow from his egg, so he would have set the time machine to go back four years prior to the Androids' first attack, ensuring that they would still be alive when he emerged.

Why, oh why, did they not just go with that explanation?

[Zephyr]

If he had gotten the blueprints in the past, why would he then return to an even earlier date and knowingly create another splinter timeline?

Okay I get what you're saying now. I was thinking that maybe he'd planned to simply give the antidote and remotes to Bulma in the past to better ensure a saved timeline, but that'd be pointless as it'd create another splinter timeline, when both previous ones had already been saved.

[caejones]

What I want to know is... if Bulma had such a good idea of where Gero's lab was, why did noone find it in Trunks' timeline? I mean, sure, everyone had to track Gero there, and Trunks was dealing with #17 and #18, but you'd think that at some point in that twenty years someone would have decided to follow that bit of info that Bulma had and search the area. KameSen'nin was still around, according to the TV special. It's not like he was doing anything useful. Bulma could have made him do it.

[Bussani]

Again though, he'd be creating a new timeline. So we're either dealing with an arbitrarily different Trunks, who had never gone to the past before and rather than warning Goku, chose to revive the Dragon Balls instead. Or we're dealing with a Trunks mostly the same as the one we see (which makes more sense), but who would be needlessly altering the timeline yet again.

Not if he could bring a Namekian back to his time with him, or at least find out where the Namekians in his time are. Going to the past to find out something that could help his future already worked once for him. I quite like Rachel's idea here, but you're right that it's nothing like Piccolo guesses.

What I want to know is... if Bulma had such a good idea of where Gero's lab was, why did noone find it in Trunks' timeline? I mean, sure, everyone had to track Gero there, and Trunks was dealing with #17 and #18, but you'd think that at some point in that twenty years someone would have decided to follow that bit of info that Bulma had and search the area. KameSen'nin was still around, according to the TV special. It's not like he was doing anything useful. Bulma could have made him do it.

That's a good question. Could it just be that past Bulma knew about it and Future Bulma didn't? I guess that's possible. After all, Bulma's first idea when hearing about Gero's androids is to go and beat him up before he can make them, so even when her idea is shot down, I don't think it would be weird for her to start researching Gero in those three years. If she hadn't been warned about him, maybe she wouldn't have come across the rumor that he'd converted a cave into a lab. If Future Bulma did have an idea of where it was, wouldn't she have told Trunks so he could go there in the past?

[Kroni_Hunter]

Perhaps he tried to hit the controls during the process of becoming an egg and just had to have good timing. And while doing that he accidentally changed the date by a few years.

[goldsaint13]

So, yeah. There's no answer that's not completely made-up and ridiculously complicated.

Time travels are, by definition... And thank God, at least Dragon Ball time travels being luckily based on the sole valid theory about them, the multiverse, is free from paradoxes, common instead to not as good described time travels in other series...

But Trunks traveling back a year before he even warned them all makes absolutely no sense. He'd be giving the good news to people he hadn't even met yet, and creating another timeline by doing so.

Maybe that Trunks could have traveled before since the beginning...

We'd have to be dealing with an entirely different timeline for Trunks in order for this to make sense.

That's what it is...

One in which he, I don't know, beat the Androids on his own somehow and still decided he needed to go warn people in the past.

That's a possibility...


In Dragon Ball Forever there are three timelines... I would add a fourth... Because Trunks coming from the second went into the past of the third (the ones we know from the manga)... But the Trunks from the first went in the past of the fourth and Cell coming from that first is the one who created the alterations on the fourth generating the third and the first generating the second...

[Bussani]

In Dragon Ball Forever there are three timelines... I would add a fourth... Because Trunks coming from the second went into the past of the third (the ones we know from the manga)... But the Trunks from the first went in the past of the fourth and Cell coming from that first is the one who created the alterations on the fourth generating the third and the first generating the second...

You may know this already, but the timeline from Daizenshuu 7 actually does list a fourth timeline.

http://magikarp46.com/dragonball/guideb ... utures.php

I personally think they made a slight mistake, though, by implying there was a Cell Game without Trunks in that timeline. How could there be a Cell Game when there's no Cell in that timeline? But you can tell they intended it to be the timeline where he found the shutdown control blueprints, since a little purple line shows him returning to his time to use it.

[goldsaint13]

You may know this already, but the timeline from Daizenshuu 7 actually does list a fourth timeline.

http://magikarp46.com/dragonball/guideb ... utures.php

Oh... Great, I didn't have seen it...

I have DB Forever officially printed and so I knew the scheme there is on it, but not that of the Daizenshuu...

I personally think they made a slight mistake, though, by implying there was a Cell Game without Trunks in that timeline. How could there be a Cell Game when there's no Cell in that timeline? But you can tell they intended it to be the timeline where he found the shutdown control blueprints, since a little purple line shows him returning to his time to use it.

Uhm... There's some little flaw I fear... The 4th Timeline I originally meant was just that where the Trunks later killed by Cell in the future came and where there was no Cell... A Timeline like that of the Android 13 movie, so to say...

How could ever be a Cell in that Timeline if Cell could be there in the first place only AFTER having killed the Trunks returned from it?


The 4th Timeline is of course the one where Trunks came and there was no Cell... Then the Trunks returned from that is killed by Cell in the future...

[Bussani]

Uhm... There's some little flaw I fear... The 4th Timeline I originally meant was just that where the Trunks later killed by Cell in the future came and where there was no Cell...

Yeah, the timeline where he found the blueprints, right? It's called History 4 in the Daizenshuu, but if you look, for some reason it has "Cell Game begins (Trunks is absent)" in it, which doesn't make a lot of sense since that timeline shouldn't have a Cell Game. I think the people who put it together got themselves confused there.