Zoomed In

dragonpearls · Post by **dragonpearls** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:53 pm

On the article of the DVD showdown, http://www.daizex.com/general/feature/, it is mention that the original dub and the Ultimate Uncut seemed to be zoomed in.
Why was that?

lost in thought · Post by **lost in thought** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:33 am

dragonpearls wrote:On the article of the DVD showdown, http://www.daizex.com/general/feature/, it is mention that the original dub and the Ultimate Uncut seemed to be zoomed in.
Why was that?

Well, if I am remembering correctly from when I read Mike's review of the ultimate uncut, somewhere during it Mike pointed out that some frames of the original reels weren't entirely lined up properly, so the shots are zoomed in on, so as to eliminate this issue- but at the same time ending up losing quite a bit of the image.

[Note: 'Zooming in' as you called it isn't a new thing, as movies for the last 20+ years have had this done to them, since their aspect ratio when filmed is that of theatre quality- they are resized/formated to display on your normal "Pan and Scan" television sets.

However, now that we have 'wide screen' television sets, films can be viewed in in their original aspect ratios.]

dragonpearls · Post by **dragonpearls** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:11 am

lost in thought wrote:
dragonpearls wrote:On the article of the DVD showdown, http://www.daizex.com/general/feature/, it is mention that the original dub and the Ultimate Uncut seemed to be zoomed in.
Why was that?
Well, if I am remembering correctly from when I read Mike's review of the ultimate uncut, somewhere during it Mike pointed out that some frames of the original reels weren't entirely lined up properly, so the shots are zoomed in on, so as to eliminate this issue- but at the same time ending up losing quite a bit of the image.

[Note: 'Zooming in' as you called it isn't a new thing, as movies for the last 20+ years have had this done to them, since their aspect ratio when filmed is that of theatre quality- they are resized/formated to display on your normal "Pan and Scan" television sets.

However, now that we have 'wide screen' television sets, films can be viewed in in their original aspect ratios.]

But this is a TV show. The aspect ratios should be smaller that a theater movie?

tarsonis · Post by **tarsonis** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:27 am

dragonpearls wrote: But this is a TV show. The aspect ratios should be smaller that a theater movie?

Correct, the show was filmed in 4:3 (aka 1.33:1), so it should match a standard-size 4:3 TV perfectly. I'm not sure what they mean by the reels not being lined up correctly, but I'm guessing this means that the picture itself was slightly offset from the frame. So, they would have to zoom in slightly to correct this, but yes this would cause part of the picture to be cropped.

Entropy · Post by **Entropy** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:27 am

He has given the reason for why the image was zoomed in.
He is simply pointing out that similar process is applied to films to get them to display with the 4:3 the televisions use.

dragonpearls · Post by **dragonpearls** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:30 am

tarsonis wrote:
dragonpearls wrote: But this is a TV show. The aspect ratios should be smaller that a theater movie?
Correct, the show was filmed in 4:3 (aka 1.33:1), so it should match a standard-size 4:3 TV perfectly. I'm not sure what they mean by the reels not being lined up correctly, but I'm guessing this means that the picture itself was slightly offset from the frame. So, they would have to zoom in slightly to correct this, but yes this would cause part of the picture to be cropped.

Is it becaues it's from a differnt conutry? Lke the aspect ratios in Japan is differnt then the US?

tarsonis · Post by **tarsonis** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:36 am

dragonpearls wrote:Is it becaues it's from a differnt conutry? Lke the aspect ratios in Japan is differnt then the US?

No, I recall seeing somewhere on daizex that the show was filmed 4:3 originally. The site seems to be down at the moment though so I can't check, but I'll try to find that page later.

Post by **SaiyaJedi** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:45 am

dragonpearls wrote:Is it becaues it's from a differnt conutry? Lke the aspect ratios in Japan is differnt then the US?

Nope, both the US and Japan use the NTSC standard, which is the same aspect ratio (4:3 or 1.33:1), the same display resolution (640x480, though the horizontal is actually 720 in a way that I'm sure Mike would be able to explain), the same framerate (29.97 interlaced frames per second), and the same color pallette. The only real difference is region coding, which is so that domestic companies don't lose money on imported versions of the same product.

dragonpearls · Post by **dragonpearls** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:59 pm

SaiyaJedi wrote:The only real difference is region coding, which is so that domestic companies don't lose money on imported versions of the same product.

Coding? How is that done?

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 3:10 pm

There's a little bit of data at the start of the DVD containing information denoting what region it is (1, 2, 3, etc). It's the first thing a DVD player reads. If it's not a region the player accepts it wont play the DVD.

tarsonis · Post by **tarsonis** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:46 pm

Here's the page I was referencing before, which just indicates that Toei uses the standard 4:3 size:

http://www.daizex.com/guides/rumors/mov ... ials.shtml

dragonpearls · Post by **dragonpearls** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:47 pm

tarsonis wrote:Here's the page I was referencing before, which just indicates that Toei uses the standard 4:3 size:

http://www.daizex.com/guides/rumors/mov ... ials.shtml

Why do you think they made thoese movies in 4:3 insted of the 16:9 format?

tarsonis · Post by **tarsonis** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:54 pm

Don't know for sure, but it was probably because it was just easier for them to continue using the same methods to make the movies as for the show.

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:56 pm

lost in thought wrote:Well, if I am remembering correctly from when I read Mike's review of the ultimate uncut, somewhere during it Mike pointed out that some frames of the original reels weren't entirely lined up properly, so the shots are zoomed in on, so as to eliminate this issue- but at the same time ending up losing quite a bit of the image.

...I said that, not Mike...

"As for the zoom, I'm 99% certain that Toei did that when they made the 2nd generation copies. The animation cels were sometimes misaligned when photographed, and zooming in on the image would gaurantee no visible animation errors."

Here's a prime example of what I'm talking about from One Piece...

Here's what an original image from DB looked like, and how it would have been zoomed in on...

Here's a fixed version that was used for the Dragon Box, showing how much image was salvaged...

Those 2 images are from the February 12th update to Oolong's Dragon Box diary.
http://www.jumpland.com/dvdsite/diary02.html

lost in thought · Post by **lost in thought** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:09 am

DBW wrote:...I said that, not Mike...

Sorry DBW, the site was down and I couldn't verify the information I was recalling from memory. Thanks for clarifying though.

By the way, speaking of One Piece... I just saw the dub on Toonami the other night, and I was wondering if anyone would agree that it isn't very good, and feels a lot like the other 4Kid's dubbed series'?

Don't get me wrong though, the series looks great... but if God is merciful, he will force 4Kid's to release bilingual dvds... I don't know how much longer I can suffer such weird, and less than interesting voices. [Especially with the voice actor for Yu-Gi-Oh!'s Seto Kaiba doing the intro monologue, and a liquor reference in the first episode... 'Captain Morgan'.]

Post by **SaiyaJedi** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:15 am

lost in thought wrote:By the way, speaking of One Piece... I just saw the dub on Toonami the other night, and I was wondering if anyone would agree that it isn't very good, and feels a lot like the other 4Kid's dubbed series'?

I agree there. It takes the series and distills it to the most inane elements, sucking the drama out of the fights and the humor out of the gags. Whereas the original was something all ages could enjoy, I would be hard-pressed not to find this version a tad dull unless I was under age 12 or so. My thoughts, anyway.

[Especially with the voice actor for Yu-Gi-Oh!'s Seto Kaiba doing the intro monologue, and a liquor reference in the first episode... 'Captain Morgan'.]

He's "Môgan Taisa" (Captain Morgan) in the original too. They might've changed his rank to avoid the connotation, but they obviously didn't. They did, however, unintentionally flub Nezumi's rank in the most recent dubbed episode -- he's a Captain, not a "colonel" (the word is the same -- taisa -- but "colonel" is an army rank and not naval). From here, I could get into all the weirdness of the so-called "Marines" and their half-naval, half-army rank system (the former for commissioned officers and the latter for non-commissioned), but for now I'll give it a rest.

lost in thought · Post by **lost in thought** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:08 pm

Thanks for agreeing with me, Julian... it makes me feel a lot better for not liking it very much.

SaiyaJedi wrote:He's "Môgan Taisa" (Captain Morgan) in the original too. They might've changed his rank to avoid the connotation, but they obviously didn't.

Even though I have no experience with the original, I wouldn't have minded if they would have given him a new name [as long as it wasn't completely stupid,] as every time I heard his name spoken- I kept thinking about the dumb Captain Morgan commercials that used to propegate the airwaves a few months ago.

I am emmensely interested in the series though, now that I've seen two episodes, so I'll have to suffer the dub- since knowing 4Kid's style, bilingual is a fantasy.

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:31 pm

lost in thought wrote:I am emmensely interested in the series though, now that I've seen two episodes, so I'll have to suffer the dub- since knowing 4Kid's style, bilingual is a fantasy.

FUNimation should be releasing Japanese disks sometime in the future.

In the meantime, here's some fun facts:

The World Wide Web is abbreviated as www.
The Japanese word for pirate is kaizoku-
Home-made subtitling jobs are also known as fansubs
The fastest growing businesses are .com companies

lost in thought · Post by **lost in thought** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:12 am

DBW wrote:FUNimation should be releasing Japanese disks sometime in the future.

You think? I'd wager my flying pig on that one.

DBW wrote:In the meantime, here's some fun facts:

The World Wide Web is abbreviated as www.
The Japanese word for pirate is kaizoku-
Home-made subtitling jobs are also known as fansubs
The fastest growing businesses are .com companies

"www.":
Of course, how does this pertain to the subject matter though?

"Kaizoku":
Alright, so what is "Captain Lost" in Japanese?
I am Captain Lost, dammit!

"Fansubs":
Right, I don't have interest in those though. [Being on dialup doesn't help, either.]

".com businesses":
Again, subject matter?

Ok, food for thought: What the hell are you getting at?

Post by **SaiyaJedi** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:36 am

DBW wrote:The fastest growing businesses are .com companies

Welcome to 1999, my friend. Now heed my advice and put all of your money in mattresses (actual ones) for the next 8 or 9 years.