Strong Base Form Proof?

Trunks Master Swordsman03 · Post by **Trunks Master Swordsman03** » Sat May 07, 2005 12:44 am

OK, over the past years, ever since Goku first became a Super Saiyan, there have been debates on whether or not the Saiyan Base Forms have high Power Levels or not, I've seen many PL charts, both go different ways,

Cell Games Base Goku:
~Some have his PL at 2,000,000
~Others put it up to 55,000,000

There has been no right or wrong answer, all opinions on this, however I think I found some proof that suggests that Base Forms are very powerful.

I was in Barnes & Noble the other day & I was in the Graphic Novels section, I was reviewing Vol.17 of DBZ & I was reading the Trunks Story.

Inside the story it is shown Base Form Gohan fighting almost evenly with SSJ Trunks. Gohan acctually had advantage over a SSJ. I think this proves Base Forms are powerful.

SpaceKappa · Post by **SpaceKappa** » Sat May 07, 2005 1:37 am

Well, Gohan had had years of training, and Trunks was still a kid. Of course his base form would be stronger than Trunks, who only recently attained Super Saiyajin.

Power levels are dumb and I hate them, let me add.

Also, with question marks, it's the same as exclaimaition points. It's one or none.

Trunks Master Swordsman03 · Post by **Trunks Master Swordsman03** » Sat May 07, 2005 6:00 pm

A Super Saiyan at the age of 13 should still hold a good deal of power, wouldn;t you think?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat May 07, 2005 6:04 pm

Trunks Master Swordsman03 wrote:A Super Saiyan at the age of 13 should still hold a good deal of power, wouldn;t you think?

Not that Super Saiyan. Hell, both Future Gohan and Future Trunks are horribly weak.

SSj Goku on Namek is stronger than SSj Future Gohan, whose base form is stronger than SSj Future Trunks at that time.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sat May 07, 2005 6:48 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Trunks Master Swordsman03 wrote:A Super Saiyan at the age of 13 should still hold a good deal of power, wouldn;t you think?
Not that Super Saiyan. Hell, both Future Gohan and Future Trunks are horribly weak.

SSj Goku on Namek is stronger than SSj Future Gohan, whose base form is stronger than SSj Future Trunks at that time.

It's true. The Future SSJs are about as strong as Neko Majin Z's SSJ Onio.

Trunks Master Swordsman03 · Post by **Trunks Master Swordsman03** » Sat May 07, 2005 7:06 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Trunks Master Swordsman03 wrote:A Super Saiyan at the age of 13 should still hold a good deal of power, wouldn;t you think?
Not that Super Saiyan. Hell, both Future Gohan and Future Trunks are horribly weak.

SSj Goku on Namek is stronger than SSj Future Gohan, whose base form is stronger than SSj Future Trunks at that time.

Don't insult Trunks!

Future Gohan could easily defeat Goku on Namek, Gohan could fight close to even with one of the androids.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sat May 07, 2005 7:21 pm

Trunks Master Swordsman03 wrote:
Rocketman wrote:
Trunks Master Swordsman03 wrote:A Super Saiyan at the age of 13 should still hold a good deal of power, wouldn;t you think?
Not that Super Saiyan. Hell, both Future Gohan and Future Trunks are horribly weak.

SSj Goku on Namek is stronger than SSj Future Gohan, whose base form is stronger than SSj Future Trunks at that time.
Don't insult Trunks!

Future Gohan could easily defeat Goku on Namek, Gohan could fight close to even with one of the androids.

1) Future Trunks+Gohan's androids were weaker than the "main timeline's" androids.

2) Those androids weren't fighting at full strength whenever they fought Gohan.

3) On top of all this, he got killed by those weaker androids, so what are you talking about?

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Sat May 07, 2005 7:27 pm

I think he's talking about the filler fight in the TV special. In the manga, 50% #17 was much stronger than Gohan.

Trunks Master Swordsman03 · Post by **Trunks Master Swordsman03** » Sat May 07, 2005 7:27 pm

Here's how I see it:

.Future Gohan>Future Trunks (during the Trunks Saga)

.Trunks is stated to be outclassed by those Androids

.Future Trunks & Goku are about even

.Goku also gains some strength from the time inbetween Namek & his return to earth

.So, we can see by this, Future Gohan>Goku on Namek

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sat May 07, 2005 7:32 pm

This is a very, very, very stupid conversation.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat May 07, 2005 8:23 pm

Trunks Master Swordsman03 wrote:Here's how I see it:

.Future Gohan>Future Trunks (during the Trunks Saga)

.Trunks is stated to be outclassed by those Androids

.Future Trunks & Goku are about even

.Goku also gains some strength from the time inbetween Namek & his return to earth

.So, we can see by this, Future Gohan>Goku on Namek

SSj Goku was stronger than SSj Trunks in the Trunks Saga.

Face it, if a Super Saiyan is completely outmatched by a base Saiyan, either the base Saiyan is seriously strong, or the SSj is horribly weak.

And since it's shown that 50% Future 17 > SSj Gohan, SSj Trunks at that time is so weak it's not even funny.

And, while we're on the Trunks Special, did anybody else think that the anime's version was better about SSj Trunks? I like the scene where he finds Gohan dead in the rain, and then goes SSj better than "Oh, he's an SSj anyway".

Trunks Master Swordsman03 · Post by **Trunks Master Swordsman03** » Sat May 07, 2005 11:53 pm

There isn't actual proof of SSJ Goku>SSJ Trunks. Goku blocks his attacks but then states that Trunks wasn't giving it his all. So we really can't be sure, I always put the 2 of them at equal power levels.

Also, I agree with you about the History Of Trunks, it's much better, that is probably the best change the Anime has ever made from the Manga. I mean seriously, how enraged could Trunks have gotten simply training with Gohan, Trunks isn't Gohan, I don't think it's as easy for him to image pain & have it work. It's much better in the Anime with the tears & the pain.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sun May 08, 2005 1:50 am

Trunks Master Swordsman03 wrote:There isn't actual proof of SSJ Goku>SSJ Trunks. Goku blocks his attacks but then states that Trunks wasn't giving it his all. So we really can't be sure, I always put the 2 of them at equal power levels.

I can garuantee you that neither was Goku, seeing as he was only using his finger.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Sun May 08, 2005 2:07 am

Gohan thought the person fighting Freeza was his father because he had the same Ki.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun May 08, 2005 2:19 am

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:Gohan thought the person fighting Freeza was his father because he had the same Ki.

And since the last time Gohan felt SSj Goku's ki was on Namek, that means SSj Trunks is equal to Namek SSj Goku, both of which are weaker than Trunks Saga SSj Goku.

Trunks Master Swordsman03 · Post by **Trunks Master Swordsman03** » Sun May 08, 2005 2:47 am

Wrong, Gohan merely stated that it was the same type of ki, Super Saiyan ki energy, that is what Gohan felt.

Also, Goku may have been using 1 finger, but all of his power was in the finger.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Sun May 08, 2005 3:16 am

Nothing was stated about a Super Saiyan Ki feeling. I don't feel like searching for the line right now, I'm sure someone else would be happy to help.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sun May 08, 2005 4:09 am

Trunks Master Swordsman03 wrote: Also, Goku may have been using 1 finger, but all of his power was in the finger.

I'd like to see definitive proof of that.

Also, everyone witnessing there dual, including Trunks himself was shocked that Goku deflected those blows with just his finger when it easily sliced Freeza up. A strengthened and enhanced Freeza I might add.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sun May 08, 2005 12:43 pm

What does Goku's strength have to do with anything anyway? Whether he and 17 yr old Trunks were equal or not doesn't disproove the fact that 13 year old Trunks was by far the weakest SSJ.

Proof:
1) Non-SSJ Future Gohan is more than enough to handle SSJ 13 year old Trunks.
2) Future Androids kills SSJ Future Gohan easily.
3) Regular Androids are MUCH stronger than the Future Androids.
4) A blast from (Regular) 7 year old SSJ Trunks nearly kills a Regular Android.
Bonus) You can't even argue that Goten's weaker since he's almost as strong as Regular Trunks, who clearly surpasses Future Trunks.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sun May 08, 2005 12:59 pm

VegettoEX wrote:This is a very, very, very stupid conversation.

I must re-iterate it, again. Conversations on whether or not Goku had his full strength placed in his finger... well... that kind of thing isn't exactly what the Daizenshuu EX forums are for. I'd be more than happy to explain to you a couple other forums that welcome asinine conversations and quench their need for money through advertisements with boatloads of innacurate information...