Episode #0274 (09 October 2011)

[VegettoEX]

Episode #0274 (download MP3) (rss feed) (subscribe in iTunes)
108:34; 96 kbps, mono; 74.8 MB

Episode #0274! VegettoEX, Julian, Meri, and Jeff dive into the 42nd and final "Manga Review of Awesomeness". After more than four years, we have made our way to the final volume of the series. Does Toriyama pull out all the stops for the conclusion of his ultimate work, or is it just another volume in the series? Our own thoughts on the recurring segment, tons of thoughts from the audience, and our grand plans for post-manga reviews wrap up the episode! Referenced sites:

• Final Bout Opening: A Closer Look @ YouTube
• "Saikyou Jump" Official Website

We did it, folks. It is over four years later, and we have made it to the end of the series. I hope it was everything you wanted in this type of segment, and while we of course may have done things a little bit differently in earlier episodes had we known what we know now (the format of our notes, Viz-isms, etc.)... it was still one Hell of a great time. We do indeed announce what monthly-segment plans we have (if any...!) to replace the manga review, so tune in and let us know what you think about EVERYTHING.

There was a ton more we could have discussed about this volume, but in the interest of not talking for three hours, I'll leave it up to everyone else here on the forum. A couple other things that might be worth discussing regarding this volume:

- A little bit more about Vegeta's growth as a character
- Was it even necessary to introduce a new hero for the future? Gohan and Goten clearly not worthy?
- Has Mr. Satan redeemed himself?

And I'm sure there's ton more. I'd love to hear what anyone and everyone has to say about anything we talked about during the show, and anything we didn't get to. Many thanks to all of you for tuning in!

(And yes, I forgot Dende in one of my quiz questions for Jeff. Doesn't change the outcome, though )

[SHINOBI-03]

And the date is my birthday too! It's way better than last year's!

Anyway, it past midnight here, so I'll just download it and I'll listen in the morning. But I'll say congratulations for the time being.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Yay! I was mentioned in a DaizEX video, maybe not by name, but at least by post! =P

Haven't had time to listen to the podcast yet, but I will as soon as I go home. Right now I'm trying to survive on a dying iPod at the doctors appointment in the hospital.

[Super Sayian Prime]

I've been waiting for this next step for a while. I might just try to join in the conversation too.

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

Listening to it now, thoughts later, but speaking of milestones, episode 300 isn't far away!

[JulieYBM]

A great milestone indeed. I'm happy for Jeff and equally happy for a Dragon Ball GT Review of Awesomeness. Personally, I think Jeff would really love to watch Dragon Ball first. Well, there's always a year or two from now...right?

[dbgtFO]

It's so awesome you're going to review GT now. I'm looking even more forward to that, since I haven't seen most of it.

I think I agree with Jeff concerning Vegetto having to go. He had served his purpose in the plot and it really would be anticlimatic, if it was going to be something like Vegetto vs. Evil Buu in the last fight.
Since Toriyama didn't even try to come up with a reasonable explanation other than "bad air", it really comes across as a huge asspull done for the sake of the plot.
But I have to admit, I didn't think much of it, when I first read it.

A couple other things that might be worth discussing regarding this volume:

- Was it even necessary to introduce a new hero for the future? Gohan and Goten clearly not worthy?

Considering that the half Saiyans didn't have any motivation to tap into that great potential of theirs, I think it serves as a nice contrast, that we have this kid, who was motivated to work hard to achieve his goals.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

All I can say, if Jeff points out where the absorbed Kaios went (Never thought about that), he's going to rip GT in places I didn't know existed.

But wow, end of an era indeed. Didn't realize how much the anime extended the ending- twas faster in print. I knew you were going through with the quiz. Alcohol and odd questions make for fun listening.

- A little bit more about Vegeta's growth as a character
- Was it even necessary to introduce a new hero for the future? Gohan and Goten clearly not worthy?
- Has Mr. Satan redeemed himself?

1) Like the original ending more, there. Vegeta admitted defeat, but it's not like Goku doesn't have other character flaws that he hasn't railed on before. A little smug, harmless Ad Hominum is probably how I would have ended Vegeta, too.

2) Gohan and Goten's going their own ways were driven home. But a new hero? Well, it actually makes Goku's desire to find a new hero after his death a lot more genuine ("No, it's not just because I can't gauge my enemy and want my younger son to test something for me, I've actually been thinking about this."), rather than a plot-extender ala Vegeta's inspiring villain transformations. I do like how Uub's being pseudo-Indian nods back to Nam, both in his back-story and Nam's being the first relatively pure martial artist Goku fights.

3) What did Satan have to redeem himself from?

[songohan619]

Yes, Jeff, my name is John-Edvard Genius!

[Herms]

Minor correction: you talked as if Vegeta's "Kakarot, you're not just doing this for the Earth's sake" line was replaced by his "I'll beat you one day" line in the kanzenban. Actually, the "not just for Earth's sake" line was in both the tankoubon and kanzenban. Vegeta's "I'll beat you" line replaced Toriyama's farewell message from the original tankoubon ending.

Anyway, great episode. I definitely agree about the quality of Toriyama's artwork: in my view he's by far the best of all the big Shonen Jump manga creators when it comes to the all-around quality of his artwork, panel composition, design, "camera" angles, and all that technical stuff. That, more than anything else, has kept the series afloat for so long. I was somewhat surprised to hear you bring that up for this volume though, because I always thought Toriyama was slipping a bit towards the end of the series. I think the worst point comes during Gohan's fight with Boo, when even the color pages have Gohan looking weird and dis-proportioned, but Super Saiyan 3 Goku looked pretty bad at several points during the final battle. But he definitely pulled it all together for those final few chapters, and I love those dialogue-free pages. Also great is the title page for the last chapter, with adult Goku and Shenlong (?), mirroring the cover of the very first tankoubon volume.

Also very interesting to see how much Jeff has forgotten, but his point about reading the series over four years without re-reading is quite valid. And it kind of puts Toriyama's infamously fuzzy memory in perspective. Toriyama wrote the series over ten years, without re-reading anything until preparing the kanzenban covers. So it really isn't that surprising he'd have trouble remembering who Tao Pai Pai was, or whether or not Bardock was even in the manga. Meanwhile, his memory for non-series related things seems pretty normal: we see in interviews that he still remembers how he first heard of Mayumi Tanaka all those years ago, the various plastic models he based DB vehicles off of, Masakazu Katsura suggesting ideas to him, and other real-life stuff from during the making of the manga. He's not an amnesiac, he just made the story up as he went along and didn't think much about it afterward.

The GT review sounds great. Maybe I'll re-watch it too, to follow along. I've watch all of GT twice, but each time I just marathoned though it, and though I always enjoyed the early part of the series, by the time I got to the evil dragons I got fed up. Maybe watching the series at a slower pace would fix this.

[DinoChow]

YAY!!! I am so happy to hear that you are doing the "GT Review of Awesomeness!" I'd been hoping for this for a while! For one, it will give me an excuse to finally watch the entire series, and given that GT is...well...GT...I think we can count on this being a very funny long-running segment.

But I am sad to see the Manga Review gone...I still have to go back and listen to some of the early ones, but man, it's been fun to hear these, and Jeff's perspective is fascinating because I honestly can't remember a time before I knew this series. I remember the first chapter I read, but other than that, I can't really imagine what it was like to be a newbie. Great stuff. Looking forward to GT. Great job everyone!

[Super Vejito]

I'll listen to the podcast tomorrow as it's past 4 AM here. Definitely something to look forward to, not to mention it has Vejito. =D A GT review of awesomeness sounds interesting, though I'd be more inclined to rewatch the original DB series than GT. I'll listen to the podcasts about it in any case, GT had its moments inbetween the inconsistencies.

I also want to mention real quick that the new Final Bout video you put up on YouTube is apparently blocked by ABGroup for my country (the Netherlands, Europe). =[ I don't know if there's anything you can do about that, but I thought you should know.

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

Well, it's been a long road and it's a real shame I was only here for a third of it. Oh well, that didn't make this episode any less incredible! I laughed harder at the podcast than I had done in a long time and it really felt like you guys had achieved something. I'm glad you brought up the Kanzenban ending as well. There was also a nice balance between discussion of volume 42 and the series as a whole and I'm really looking forward to when you finish up GT (I especially look forward to Jeff's views on GT's ending) and a doing the movies because then you can review the franchise as a whole (unless you're sick of it by then!).

Keep going for the whole 508 and beyond guys and I hope you enjoyed the cake (be sure to send me some)!

PS. My only problem with this episode is that you forgot to mention that Lunch appears in the Anime getting off a truck (and while we're on the subject Giran and Namu also make cameos in the Anime) and I would've enjoyed a bit more discussion on Vegeta's character development, but hey pretty minor. It'd be pretty much impossible to squeeze everything into an already jam-packed episode anyway!

[PuppetDoctor]

Awesome episode. I am so glad you are doing a GT Review of Awesomeness. I actually plan to follow along with this one even though this will be my second or third time watching the whole of GT.

I am surprised my Facebook comment got onto the show because I thought I may have posted a bit to late but none the less it was nice to hear it.

I loved the Manga Review of Awesomeness it was an awesome segment. Thanks again for all the hours of entertainment.

[gambitt]

Also very interesting to see how much Jeff has forgotten, but his point about reading the series over four years without re-reading is quite valid. And it kind of puts Toriyama's infamously fuzzy memory in perspective.

Thanks, Herms! Glad to know *you've* got my back! This should have been open book! I demand a recount! Foul play! Less alcohol!

Seriously, though, it's been a pleasure reviewing the manga for you guys and I look forward to trashing GT! Thanks for the kind words.

[VenomSymbiote]

Guys, congrats! I can't imagine how proud you must feel right now

Oh my god, YES! You guys are doing a Dragonball GT Review Of Awesomeness! I am so glad that my wish came true as far as post-MROA content was concerned. I like Dragonball GT far more than everyone believes I should, so I'm honestly looking forward to hearing Jeff's opinion on the series. Jeff, prepare... to step into the Grand Tour.

This episode made me laugh more than any other episode has in quite some time. I don't know what it was, but man, just keep doing it. It really reminded me of the some of the really early episodes where totally-random asides were the norm, and jokes were fired back and forth. I'm really glad you guys had a blast recording this, because it certainly shined through this week!

Also, Mike, I didn't mean to cheat with my Twitter posts! But, you never said it had to be self-contained in one tweet. So there! Seriously, though, thanks for reading it! I feel so special!

Remember, the end of one saga... is the beginning of another.

[fps_anth]

Just finished listening. Great episode, like always.

I honestly can't believe the manga review of awesomeness is over. I've been listening to the podcast since 2005, so I was there when the first manga review episode was released. When I heard you guys intended on reviewing a volume a month, I remember thinking "42 volumes? Once a month? This is going to take forever!" Well, time flies.

I decided to read along with the volume while listening. My way of sending off this awesome little mini-series of the DaizEX podcast

I was laughing pretty hard at Jeff's recollection (or lack there of) of the series during the quiz. Is it bad that I knew every answer? I even remembered the old Witch/Kaioshin fusion for goodness' sake

Now, I am really excited for the GT review of awesomeness. I'll be in Jeff's shoes for this one. Besides some old fansubs of the SSJ4 Gogeta episodes, I have never watched GT in it's entirety (Yet, for whatever reason, I own the Japanese Dragon Box of the series ). This is going to be my excuse to watch all 64 episodes for the first time. Also, the final DBZ Dragon Box comes out today. If you guys start the GT review next month, that is some seriously good timing

All in all, I'd like to thank Mike, Meri, Julian and Jeff for all the laughs, viewpoints and great information provided in these reviews. I re-listened to a good chunk of them this summer while on vacation, and as Mike intended, they held up really well. Congratulations!

[SuperSaiyan3Goku]

I'm at the "Jeff final quiz" part of the Podcast.

These answers are amazing.

[SHINOBI-03]

So it's going to be GT next? We all assumed you'd go for the movies, but GT?!
Anyone remembers Mike's kick to his shin?! No? That because it didn't happen lol.

[TrunksTrevelyan0064]

I don't blame Jeff for failing the quiz. Ask the same questions to Toriyama! You think he'd get any of them right?