Ultimate Gohan: a reversible transformation like SSJ or not?

[goldsaint13]

Hi there...

How are you?



I have a question I'm not yet able to answer to... I've looked for canon sources but I didn't find the proof yet...


I think that Ultimate Gohan is a transformation that works as SSJ, that's what Kaioshin said... It's activated like SSJ... So it should be possible to be reversed at will and reactivated again...

I don't think Ultimate form is just a fixed power up...


Do we have further informations from the guides? Because manga is not so clear about the point...

[FNF]

It's not so much of a transformation as stated by Elder Kaioshin;

“Hmph, transforming isn’t good. That Super whatever-its-called is the wrong way [of doing things]…”

It's more like a powered up state.

[Kaboom]

The way Gohan "transformed" into the state seems to have just been the way for him to finalize the ritual and claim all his new power. The subtle differences in his appearance never really go away after that, so it doesn't seem to be something he can really go in and out of.

Aside from in Movie 13, but... whatever.

[goldsaint13]

It's not so much of a transformation as stated by Elder Kaioshin;

“Hmph, transforming isn’t good. That Super whatever-its-called is the wrong way [of doing things]…”

It's more like a powered up state.

But, Elder Kaioshin might have meant that SSJ is the wrong way, not the concept of transformation itself... SSJ is energy-consuming... Ultimate is not... So in this way it could be the right way...

The way Gohan "transformed" into the state seems to have just been the way for him to finalize the ritual and claim all his new power. The subtle differences in his appearance never really go away after that, so it doesn't seem to be something he can really go in and out of.

Aside from in Movie 13, but... whatever.

Yeah, it seems that anime intends the thing like a real transformation you can go in and out...

That difference in appearance seems to return when Gohan gives the energy for the Genkidama, although it's a debated matter...


Isn't there anything official that could clarify the thing?


Even the accurate translation of the manga phrases could give us an hand...

[hleV]

Check the Super Saiyan Appearance Guide, there's an entry for Ultimate Gohan's possibly powered-up and non-powered-up states appearance.

[FNF]

It's not so much of a transformation as stated by Elder Kaioshin;

“Hmph, transforming isn’t good. That Super whatever-its-called is the wrong way [of doing things]…”

It's more like a powered up state.

But, Elder Kaioshin might have meant that SSJ is the wrong way, not the concept of transformation itself... SSJ is energy-consuming... Ultimate is not... So in this way it could be the right way...

Elder Kaioshin says that Gohan didn't transform though. That's straight from the manga. It would be like saying Piccolo transformed when he merged with God.

[goldsaint13]

Check the Super Saiyan Appearance Guide, there's an entry for Ultimate Gohan's possibly powered-up and non-powered-up states appearance.

Thanks!!! I just did!!!

That's what I meant when I said that there's a normal fporm and powered up form, that could be considered as tranaformation in a way...

But I wonder if there's some advice in any of the official issues...

Elder Kaioshin says that Gohan didn't transform though. That's straight from the manga. It would be like saying Piccolo transformed when he merged with God.

Gohan asked how to transform into the strongest warrior and he answered that he would by doing the same as he previously did to turn SSJ (actually replacing it)... And actually Piccolo could unmerge himself from God as he did long ago... But beside it, I'm looking for official tips around...




Do you have the manga scripts about that pages (you used to post them in case of need)?

[Michsi]

actually Piccolo could unmerge himself from God as he did long ago

Piccolo straight up tells Goku that it is impossible when Goku asked if he could do it. Otherwise they wouldn't have needed Dende.

I think he could perform the technique (?) Kami used to get rid of part of himelf, but the beinf that would emerge would probably not be Kami.

Anyway, on topic.
I think the fact that we see Gohan still have those same eyes when he was caring books around his house 10 years later pretty much proves that it has become his permanent state.

[Bussani]

I feel like whether it' permanently on or not isn't an important question. It has no drawbacks either way, so the difference between it being "on" or "off" is just how much power Gohan has out at the time. Thus, apart from very subtle changes to his hair and eyes, it's really no different from anyone else suppressing/releasing their ki.

[goldsaint13]

Piccolo straight up tells Goku that it is impossible when Goku asked if he could do it. Otherwise they wouldn't have needed Dende.

I think he could perform the technique (?) Kami used to get rid of part of himelf, but the beinf that would emerge would probably not be Kami.

Yes, I meant he could have used that Namek power again, anyway......

I think the fact that we see Gohan still have those same eyes when he was caring books around his house 10 years later pretty much proves that it has become his permanent state.

I may be, but in case it would be permanent, that means it's impossible that Gohan would weaken over time without training... Being permanent or not, it's a transformation and just as SSJ effect is x50, this is "total unlocking of max power"... So he could not weaken... It would be like a Saiyan able to turn SSJ but lazy in training would have a SSJ version that is x49, x48, x47... It's no sense...
His base form could weaken at most... But since Ultimate form has the effect of bringing out all the possible hidden potential, it means Gohan will be always at his max with training or not...

I feel like whether it' permanently on or not isn't an important question. It has no drawbacks either way, so the difference between it being "on" or "off" is just how much power Gohan has out at the time. Thus, apart from very subtle changes to his hair and eyes, it's really no different from anyone else suppressing/releasing their ki.

Yes, and that should represent no problem in terms of power since Ultimate form will always be the transformation into the max power no matter what...

[Michsi]

His base form could weaken at most... But since Ultimate form has the effect of bringing out all the possible hidden potential, it means Gohan will be always at his max with training or not...

I can't say I agree since I believe that the power that was brought out was his potential at that time. It doesn't meant that if he started training he wouldn't get any results because he was already as strong as he would ever get. Nor that he couldn't get weaker again.

[DBZ Mick]

Movie 13 goes by it being seemingly a form Gohan can tap into by will which I found somewhat interesting.