How strong is King Yemma?

[Gonstead]

Compared to people like the Z warriors, the Villains and other such people etc etc.

[Silver Sinspawn]

Well, he trained with King Kai, and overpowered Raditz.

[dario03]

I believe Kami says that King Kai is stronger than King Yemma so if thats true and King Kai didn't get weaker and King Yemma didn't get stronger than him since the time that King Yemma traveled snake way then King Yemma would of been some where between 1500 and 3500 (IIRC thats the strength of Raditz and King Kai).

Though I guess King Kai's Kaio-Ken could of given him a advantage even if King Yemma's power level was a little higher than King Kai's base (but I think King Kai said he never mastered Kaio ken or was that just a dub line?)

[Bussani]

Raditz wouldn't have had his body, so overpowering him might not mean anything. Kami does say that he's weaker than Kaio, though, and Kaio admits that he's weaker than Vegeta and Nappa.

(but I think King Kai said he never mastered Kaio ken or was that just a dub line?)

That's in the original too, so Kaio is apparently stronger than Enma without it.

[Hitiro]

But what does it mean to overpower someone? Considering DBZ is it not possible that King Yemma has an ability that far outstrips his battle power? If we look at Tien in the Cell saga there's no way with his battle power could he hold back semi-perfect Cell normally but because Tien had his Kikoho which is arguably one of the strongest moves in the DBZ universe if you take into account Tien's battle power compared to Cell's it must be a pretty powerful technique for him to hold Cell down. Is it not possible for King Yemma to also have a technique similar to Kikoho which beats out most, if not, all of the enemies that show up there?

[Piccolo Daimao]

The whole "I beat Raditz" thing was supposed to portray Enma as being stronger than Raditz, as this was before the whole thing about bad guys losing souls and heroes keeping theirs came up. After all, this was the very first depiction of the afterlife, and it was only Enma's office. Enma nor God doesn't step in and say, "Yeah, but he was a fluffy little cloud, so it doesn't really matter". Anyway, after Goku asks if he should be trained by him, God replies that Kaio's the stronger of the two anyway.

So, in short: stronger than Raditz, weaker than Kaio.

[Bussani]

The whole "I beat Raditz" thing was supposed to portray Enma as being stronger than Raditz, as this was before the whole thing about bad guys losing souls and heroes keeping theirs came up. After all, this was the very first depiction of the afterlife, and it was only Enma's office. Enma nor God doesn't step in and say, "Yeah, but he was a fluffy little cloud, so it doesn't really matter". Anyway, after Goku asks if he should be trained by him, God replies that Kaio's the stronger of the two anyway.

But Kami also says, "So he has come, still in flesh form, to receive training from Kaio," and almost everyone else in line is nothing but a soul. Why would Raditz be any different? I guess it's open to interpretation.

[Perfect]

I recall Herms saying Enma was exaggerating based on the translation, seeing that Goku asked if Raditz had come by and when Enma stated he had, Goku said he was amazing for beating him.

[Saiga]

Havn't they already cleared up by this stage that it is a special circumstance for Goku to have his body?

[FNF]

I recall Herms saying Enma was exaggerating based on the translation, seeing that Goku asked if Raditz has come by and when Enma stated he had, Goku said he was amazing for beating him.

This basically.

It is like an average US Marine saying "I beat Floyd Mayweather" but in fact he just shot him dead.

Maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration itself but I don't see Yemma being a monster. Goku didn't think much of him before he said he 'beat Raditz' i'm pretty sure.

[Fox666]

But Kami also suggests Enma is stronger than Raditz.

[Perfect]

Because Enma trained under Kaio-sama.

[Gonstead]

Maybe the reason villains keep their bodies is because their power is far greater than Yemma?

[Perfect]

Maybe the reason villains keep their bodies is because their power is far greater than Yemma?

There's nothing that even implies villains do in the manga. In the anime it contradicts three established rules, one of which is filler.

[Fox666]

Besides, as far as the manga goes, Kaioshin should be the strongest guy out there, and there would be no way to stop someone like Cell. Goku even mentions there was nobody strong enough in the afterlife so he could test the fusion.

[Piccolo Daimao]

The whole "I beat Raditz" thing was supposed to portray Enma as being stronger than Raditz, as this was before the whole thing about bad guys losing souls and heroes keeping theirs came up. After all, this was the very first depiction of the afterlife, and it was only Enma's office. Enma nor God doesn't step in and say, "Yeah, but he was a fluffy little cloud, so it doesn't really matter". Anyway, after Goku asks if he should be trained by him, God replies that Kaio's the stronger of the two anyway.

But Kami also says, "So he has come, still in flesh form, to receive training from Kaio," and almost everyone else in line is nothing but a soul. Why would Raditz be any different? I guess it's open to interpretation.

I don't know why. Like I said, this was the very first depiction of the afterlife and Toriyama likely hadn't figured out all the rules first. The whole thing about normal folk and bad guys losing their bodies while heroes get to keep theirs is first properly explained in the Cell arc, and beforehand, we just have that easily forgettable line (for someone like Toriyama) followed by a statement heavily implying that Enma overpowered a struggling Raditz. Unlike in Viz, the original's Enma doesn't sound like he's bragging about defeating Raditz to a person that may've simply assumed Raditz retained his body, nor does he or God ever tell him that Raditz was just in his soul form, so it means nothing and even Goku could've subdued him now.

Of course, this is contradicted later by Goku's explanation in the Cell arc, so you could treat it as something of a retcon, or at least a half-retcon, since God's arguably vague line may imply that only certain people get to keep his body. So Raditz could be included as one of those people because he's super-strong, but perhaps later Toriyama realized that this wouldn't work for villains stronger than Enma who could kill him and go wild, so he retconned it so that bad guys wouldn't keep their bodies.

Or, most likely, he just forgot.

Anyway, here it is for reference.

Chapter: 205 (DBZ 11), P8.4-6
Goku: “Didn’t he struggle?!”
Enma: “He struggled and struggled and struggled, but I subdued him.”
Goku: “Beating that incredible guy…You’re really strong! [to God] Maybe I oughta be trained by him!!”
Kami: “Lower your voice, idiot! Don’t let lord Enma hear you! Kaio-Sama’s the stronger of the two anyway.”
Context: talking about Raditz being sent to Hell

[bizness86]

If Enma had anymore feats I would have liked to compare him to Tenshinhan or Piccolo during the Saiyans battle.

[Fox666]

Supposedly Enma is still inferior to Kaio, so he cannot be compared to Piccolo who was as strong as Kaio.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I think I'll randomly plonk at him at 2,000.

[Rocketman]

I like the idea I had that while his "power level" is in the low thousands, he is invincible in his role as Judge of the Dead.