Cell's potential as a g/n/b character during the Boo saga?

[Perfect]

This is something I've been pondering for years and years. Of course we know he's an evil guy and there's a low chance of him ever turning "good" or "neutral", but what if? We've had plenty of "what if" stories on the games and things alike. I'd like anyone that replies to just answer the what if scenarios below, not criticize them. They're very quick and vague scenarios so not too much thought was put into them, so feel free to make and share your own.

I. Gohan wins the beam struggle but Cell somehow manages to use the Instantaneous Movement technique to dodge the full share of the blast. He receives a zenkai and becomes stronger than ever (because only a small portion of his body survived and it regenerated while everyone rushed over to Gohan). Cell comes to terms with the fact that he may be "perfect" in some ways, he's become even "more perfect". Cell takes this as while he thought his power and speed were "perfect", it's his ability to increase those variables as time goes on that makes him "perfect" in that category. He wonders if Son Gohan or if even Vegeta could get stronger in years to come. He takes his leave and trains in the solitude of space, coming back to Earth during the time of Majin Vegeta and Goku's fight (arriving near Gohan and Kaioshin [note Gohan killed Dabra easily during their fight and Babidi was able to see Vegeta's evil through his own eyes]).

II. Cell and Gohan duke it out in a fist fight instead of some big beam struggle. The match quickly becomes a draw, striking some sense into Cell. He comes to realize that if he were truly the best and "perfect", that he'd be able to beat Gohan, not come to a draw. He informs Gohan that he gives up and doesn't want to fight anymore. Gohan momentarily confused, let's his guard down. Cell takes advantage of this and cold-clocks him into the ground, knocking him unconscious. Cell sees the potential for both of them to grow stronger. He insists that everyone has an eventual limit and that his is indeed perfect, meaning he'd have no equal, not even Son Gohan. He informs the rest of the fighters that unless Gohan's able to get stronger by the time he returns, he'd blow the Earth up instantly. Cell finds God's Palace during the seven years of wait and forces his way into the Room of Spirit and Time. He trains for a total of two years inside. Cell later finds out about the threat of Boo during the time of Goku's accession to SSJ3.

III. Gohan beats Cell into the ground and gives him the option of dying or giving up. Cell chooses to die of course, but Gohan persists like he did before the failed suicide. Cell eventually comes to the realization that he can't win and has no choice. Everyone goes crazy because of Gohan's decision. Gohan assures them that he'll be able to handle him and that both Vegeta and Piccolo were bad before too. Cell stands up, bleeding with cracks in his armor and takes his leave, hesitantly. From there on out Cell becomes a neutral figure, constantly training on the Earth with self-created clones and on occasion in the vastness of space.

[paperbowser]

The third scenario could make for a decent special, however I don't see it fitting in with the series under the assumption that Cell would be overpowered. I don't particularly like the first two scenarios; it just doesn't seem like Cell at all. Cell's a ruthless and powerful warrior that hosted a tournament with the Earth at stake just for his kicks and giggles.

[Kaboom]

All three of the scenarios are interesting, but none of them seem at all likely. Unlike Vegeta and Piccolo, Cell is essentially programmed to be evil. If the need called for it, would he become a temporary ally with the heroes? Yeah, I could see that. But would he be like Vegeta and ever actually reform? Nah.

[Mystic Gohan]

I don't see any of those options working. The only way gohan could ever let cell live is if he lost his power or was incarnated like uub to be good.

[Perfect]

All three of the scenarios are interesting, but none of them seem at all likely. Unlike Vegeta and Piccolo, Cell is essentially programmed to be evil. If the need called for it, would he become a temporary ally with the heroes? Yeah, I could see that. But would he be like Vegeta and ever actually reform? Nah.

Well whether or not it's likely isn't the issue really (SSJ3 Broli). It's what he'd do based on those scenarios during the threat. He could just kill everyone at the end, sure (well maybe they'd kill him), but I think the fun is from discussing how he'd impact the story. Also wasn't there a thread that went into detail about him actually being "programmed"?

I don't see any of those options working. The only way gohan could ever let cell live is if he lost his power or was incarnated like uub to be good.

Subjective.

[Saiga]

That would probably ruin Cell as a character for me. Unless in the first scenario he's still evil and escapes to get stronger/come back later and test his new strength and ends up fighting Gohan/getting stomped by Boo.

[Perfect]

Rewrote the title a little to fit what I originally meant.

[Twinbee_Mk_II]

As many in the chat room can attest, this is a what if I've mulled over for ages myself. I've gone over several possible methods of leading to this goal, but in the end I came up with one IO think fits all the needed criteria. Hope this makes sense to everyone:

The fight would go as normal up until Gohan wins the beam struggle. As Cell is looking down death's door, he pulls a trick not seen since ages past: he fires off one lone Cell jr, locked in stasis as his body vanishes in the blaze. As the tired warriors rest in victory, little do they know that in that small form fired off, is all that Cell is, reborn anew. He soon awakens, and knows at his current state, he stands no chance against Gohan, and so he goes into hiding to grow and train, not only to regain his lost power, but to surpass it. This of course would harken back to DB, as so many things in the Cell saga does already.

Jump forward 7 years, and Cell decides to make his move upon hearing of the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai, if only as a sentimentality. From there Cell works his way into the plot, finding himself swept up into the story as he misses his chance to get revenge on Gohan. Along the way he finds his power is lacking against Buu, leading to some very rewarding beatdowns. So without much choice, like Vegeta and Piccolo before him, he's forced to help save the world, if only to save his own skin. From there he'd most likely take on a post-Freeza, Pre-Cell Vegeta type of persona, training and waiting for his chance at victory that would never come.

Hope this works as an idea.

[Saiga]

As many in the chat room can attest, this is a what if I've mulled over for ages myself. I've gone over several possible methods of leading to this goal, but in the end I came up with one IO think fits all the needed criteria. Hope this makes sense to everyone:

The fight would go as normal up until Gohan wins the beam struggle. As Cell is looking down death's door, he pulls a trick not seen since ages past: he fires off one lone Cell jr, locked in stasis as his body vanishes in the blaze. As the tired warriors rest in victory, little do they know that in that small form fired off, is all that Cell is, reborn anew. He soon awakens, and knows at his current state, he stands no chance against Gohan, and so he goes into hiding to grow and train, not only to regain his lost power, but to surpase it. This of course would harken back to DB, as so many things in the Cell saga does already.

Jump forward 7 years, and Cell decides to make his move upon hearing of the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai, if only as a sentimentality. From there Cell works his way into the plot, finding himself swept up into the story as he misses his chance to get revenge on Gohan. Along the way he finds his power is lacking against Buu, leading to some very rewarding beatdowns. So without much choice, like Vegeta and Piccolo before him, he's forced to help save the world, if only to save his own skin. From there he'd most likely take on a post-Freeza, Pre-Cell Vegeta type of persona, training and waiting for his chance at victory that would never come.

Hope this works as an idea.

So he does the exact same thing as King Piccolo?

[Twinbee_Mk_II]

Not exactly what King Piccolo did, but something of a throwback to it, much like the other throwbacks we see throughout the Cell saga. The difference is instead of a direct reincarnation, Cell would still essentually be Cell, just with his mind more or less encoded on this new Cell Jr.

[Perfect]

How strong would this new Cell be by the time of Babidi's arrival? What type of an impact would his strength weigh in on for the good guys?

[Twinbee_Mk_II]

I imagine he'd be roughly within the range of the main fighters of the Buu saga.

[dprez]

The fight would go as normal up until Gohan wins the beam struggle. As Cell is looking down death's door, he pulls a trick not seen since ages past: he fires off one lone Cell jr, locked in stasis as his body vanishes in the blaze. As the tired warriors rest in victory, little do they know that in that small form fired off, is all that Cell is, reborn anew. He soon awakens, and knows at his current state, he stands no chance against Gohan, and so he goes into hiding to grow and train, not only to regain his lost power, but to surpass it. This of course would harken back to DB, as so many things in the Cell saga does already.

Jump forward 7 years, and Cell decides to make his move upon hearing of the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai, if only as a sentimentality. From there Cell works his way into the plot, finding himself swept up into the story as he misses his chance to get revenge on Gohan. Along the way he finds his power is lacking against Buu, leading to some very rewarding beatdowns. So without much choice, like Vegeta and Piccolo before him, he's forced to help save the world, if only to save his own skin. From there he'd most likely take on a post-Freeza, Pre-Cell Vegeta type of persona, training and waiting for his chance at victory that would never come.

Very cool idea. I love how it resembles King Piccolo and the way he keeps himself alive.

I think Cell would rival Ssj2 Goku and Vegeta, and this is before his possible zenkais after his beatings from Boo.

[FindKenshi]

We mustn't forget, Cell has Goku's blood in him, too. That alone gives him at least the potential to be good. It'd take something substantial to get through to him, though. In order to truly turn him, they'd have to be careful to cater to Cell's enormous ego.

Cell's primary motivation after he became complete, was to test his new power, and enjoy doing so. This is a very Goku-like trait. His desire to become complete in the first place is a far more sinister motivation, fueled by Vegeta, Freeza, and the "bad" part of Piccolo. He simply wanted to be the ultimate being, and possess the ultimate power. There may have been a bit of Goku'ish "desire to better himself" in the mix, but I feel like his desire to become complete was more Villain than anything else. As #16 mused, it was pretty psychotic... before Cell encountered Super Vegeta he already believed himself to be the most powerful in all creation. Wanting #18 for himself to become stronger still is a pretty irredeemable quality of his character.

Even though Cell saw himself slaughtering the Z-senshi and then terrorizing and killing the Earthlings as the inevitable conclusion to his perfection, there was a brief moment where he simply was living in the "here and now" and simply wanted to fight strong fighters and enjoy himself. This can be seen with his rage that Goku wouldn't take a senzu and continue the fight. Sure, the entire Cell Game is just his sadistic prolonging of torture and spreading terror, though. I don't at all feel like he was entertaining even the remote possiblity of sparing everyone. As Vegeta said "it hasn't improved your honor [becoming complete.]

That said, Cell turning good, is almost entirely out of the question, but I feel if he ever had the opportunity, it was during the Games... when Gohan is first trying to talk him out of fighting. He probably approached the only threshold between good and evil that he neared, during that moment, but he read Gohan insinuating that he could beat Cell into the conversation, of course leading him to reject the idea and decide that Gohan should, of course die.

If Gohan had maybe changed his approach, and tried being a little more obsequious and catered to Cell's gigantic ego, I think it'd have been the only real chance to work towards "turning" him.

That, or as corny as it sounds, if the characters had tried reaching out to Cell somehow... in a way, he is their kin. Not just genetically, I mean.

The fact of the matter is, though, that Cell is pure evil, through and through. Any attempt to write him becoming neutral or good, would involve some stretch. There's no avoiding that. I think if the writer was careful to point out that Goku's blood in him was what slowly allowed him to change, it'd be the only way even remotely feasible.

If Cell somehow became "good", he'd amount to an even more selfish and reckless Vegeta, I'm fairly certain of that.

There is another facet to consider, entirely, though. All of that was addressing Cell's potential motivations to "turn." The other important part, is the "good guys" motivations. How would the other characters have treated a scenario like this?

Krillin: Heartbroken about losing #18, despising Cell, enough to recklessly attack him though he had no chance.
Vegeta: Utterly humiliated by Cell, a trangression which Vegeta is very adamant about not forgiving.
Trunks: Saw Cell as an abomination, representing everything he hated about Dr. Gero's creations, all rolled up into one terrifying package
Piccolo: Despised Cell as a cooldlooded murderer, would the Kami in him ever allow him to join forces? It's different from Vegeta, because Cell wouldnt' really be redeeming himself slowly over time, whereas Vegeta became an ally and a "helper."
Goku: Had little, or no respect for Cell. Hated that Cell killed innocents for ammusement. Also saw him as a monster, constantly calling him "it."
Gohan: Didn't want to call the fight off out of any sympathy for Cell, but simply to avoid a big fight and seeing his friends be hurt and killed.

[Perfect]

The prompt wasn't to discuss the likely hood of it, let alone dissect it. It was to discuss the impact of his presence at that point in the story. You can treat him as evil at that point, good or neutral. I'd like to observe him as possibly good or neutral in terms of fighting along side the good guys, but that's not really the point.

[FindKenshi]

If Cell somehow became "good", he'd amount to an even more selfish and reckless Vegeta, I'm fairly certain of that.

This, then.

It's always more fun to explore things in as much depth as possible, though. I tried to touch upon some of the "why" behind things, which develops into how Cell would act, after he "turns."

I think some of what I touched on does pretain to your original question, though. I ran through how the other characters feel about Cell. Were Cell to somehow "join the crew", I'm almost positive it would lead to Krillin washing his hands of the mess. Would he really want to consort with Cell? It'd cause a huge falling out among the "Z-Senshi." Vegeta, and Krillin, would be gone.

[Perfect]

That entirely depends on the context. I doubt it'd be "I'd rather watch my whole family and everyone die than let Cell help". If anything, that's selfish and reckless.

[Twinbee_Mk_II]

Well i think a great example is look at how Yamucha handled Vegeta post-Freeza. He had no love for him, but he tried to deal with it best he could. Eventually he came to accept it. I imagine Kuririn would follow a similar path. 18 would be the harder sell imo.

[FindKenshi]

That entirely depends on the context. I doubt it'd be "I'd rather watch my whole family and everyone die than let Cell help". If anything, that's selfish and reckless.

Well, don't forget.. Krillin was crazy about #18. All things aside, Cell is still the "murderer" who killed her, as he himself put it. Also, one could say "what family?" Arguably, without his union with #18, Krillin remains the loner who laments about never having married.

Anyway, I'll muse with the idea of Cell remaining alive... I think it's pretty clear that he can continue to grow in strength. He gained one boost with his near-death power-up, that made him "power up, like Son Gohan." He had the sparks, and everything.

If he continued training, I'm sure he'd get stronger. Well, I say "continued", though Cell clearly never trained, from what we saw. To him, "training" involves liquefying human beings and slurping them up through his tail, or absorbing 17&18.

Were he to actually take up training, I think you'd be hard pressed to argue he wouldn't benefit from it. Would he get stronger? Sure, of course he would. Would he even try it though? That may be the kicker. Is there enough Freeza in him to make him just absurdly cocky and believing that he'd never really need to train to increase. Because were he not to increase at all, he'd be absolutly obsolete come Buu saga--he'd only be about as tough as Dabra, who's just more fodder for Buu.

I think he'd be more likely to fall under Babidi's spell, to be honest. If he stuck around as a neutral character, he'd probably just become another henchman when Babidi shows up.

[Perfect]

Well, don't forget.. Krillin was crazy about #18. All things aside, Cell is still the "murderer" who killed her, as he himself put it. Also, one could say "what family?" Arguably, without his union with #18, Krillin remains the loner who laments about never having married.

I was referring to the entirety of the protagonists.

Were he to actually take up training, I think you'd be hard pressed to argue he wouldn't benefit from it. Would he get stronger? Sure, of course he would. Would he even try it though? That may be the kicker. Is there enough Freeza in him to make him just absurdly cocky and believing that he'd never really need to train to increase.

If he remained alive, he'd likely press further to become stronger. This would likely be derived to the context however, namely speaking a scenario where he's defeated.

I think he'd be more likely to fall under Babidi's spell, to be honest. If he stuck around as a neutral character, he'd probably just become another henchman when Babidi shows up.

While possible, I see him pulling a Vegeta there.