Piccolo and Dende growing up

[peter291]

What's the reason for such difference in growing up between Piccolo and Dende? According to Herms' Guide Piccolo Daimao was defeated in Age 753. After 3 years, 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai is held. We can see adult, physically developed Ma Junior. It's just 3 years for Piccolo to become adult-looking Namekian.

What about Dende, then? We meet him in Age 762, when he is a little brat. About 5 years later, in Cell arc, Dende becomes Kami of the Earth. Although, five years have passed, he still remains a kid. Also during Buu arc [Age 774] there isn't much change in Dende's appearance. As far as I remember he attends 28th TB [Age 784] and looks like teenager.

Is the reason that Piccolo is a warrior-type Namekian whilst Dende's a member of Dragon Clan? Piccolo as a warrior needs strong, fully developed body whereas it's not necessary for Dende, at all?

[hleV]

Either it's because Piccolo & Dende are from different clans or that Piccolo Daimao set Piccolo Jr. up to grow much faster.

[Michsi]

I'm not sure if any of the guides mentioned if this is a trait of warrior type nameks, but it would make sense, if their purpose is to protect those from the dragon clan.

If it's not a usual thing for warrior type nameks, then it might be related to Piccolo's heritage. His father's other children matured on the spot, so it might be something he could speed up. Given all the other abilities his race has, growing back limbs and regenerating, changing size, speeding up his growth into a young adult isn't really any more far-out. I think one of the side stories done by Maeda Minoru has Piccolo mention something about this.
But I think you could say Piccolo is not fully grown in the 23rd TB. He is the tallest of the Z fighters and he didn't seem that big back then and his face was a bit rounder and eyes somewhat bigger. I think you can see small differences between his look during the 23rd TB arc and the one 5 years later.

[Fox666]

I assume Piccolo is just different from the others.

[Piccolo Daimao]

It's either that Piccolo's a warrior-type Namekian (they'd need to grow up into their adult body so they can fight sooner), Daimaou's demonic ki and/or the fact that Daimaou knew that the next Tenkaichi Budoukai was in three years and that Gokuu would probably be there, so he planned for his son to be an adult by then.

As for Dende, he's a member of the Dragon Clan, so they're probably not required to grow up as fast as warrior-type Namekians like Piccolo. In general, Namekians' natural growth and lifespan is different to Earthlings.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

think one of the side stories done by Maeda Minoru has Piccolo mention something about this.

[Piccolo Daimao]

So he attributes it to his membership of the Demon Clan. But that's not manga canon anyway.

[Kaboom]

Or rather, he thinks it's his "Demon Clan" heritage, given that he isn't fully aware of his true origins as a Namekian yet.

I agree with the idea that Warrior-type Namekians grow up faster so they can fight sooner. Makes the most sense, I think.

[peter291]

Don't you think that we should see more children/teenage- Namekians, if Dende growing up time was something typical?

[Piccolo Daimao]

Or rather, he thinks it's his "Demon Clan" heritage, given that he isn't fully aware of his true origins as a Namekian yet.

Oh yeah, that. It's even to the point that, in the Freeza arc (oversight or not, since he has Nail in him), he asked Dende if he had healing powers too, to which Dende replied no, as he was a warrior-type Namekian.

Don't you think that we should see more children/teenage- Namekians, if Dende growing up time was something typical?

There were numerous characters in DB that Toriyama drew as a child and then an adult, completely leaving out their teenage years. E.g. Gokuu, Kuririn, etc. Or maybe we do see teenage Namekians, but to us, they look like adults, since their ageing system is different than normal (like Saiyans).

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Don't you think that we should see more children/teenage- Namekians, if Dende growing up time was something typical?

Not really. The Namekian cataclysm occurred in Age 261, and after that, the elder gave birth to around 100 Namekians some time over the course of around 500 years. Though we don't know specifically when he was born, after Dende is introduced as a kid in Age 762, he is relatively adult size by Age 784. But we don't really know the intervals at which the children were born though, so nothing seems strange to me.

[peter291]

Not really. The Namekian cataclysm occurred in Age 261, and after that, the elder gave birth to around 100 Namekians some time over the course of around 500 years. Though we don't know specifically when he was born, after Dende is introduced as a kid in Age 762, he is relatively adult size by Age 784. But we don't really know the intervals at which the children were born though, so nothing seems strange to me.

Yeah, good point. Is this said somewhere (or can be deducted) that every Namekian who was born after cataclysm has lived to the time of Freeza coming? I mean none of them have died naturally by this time.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Yeah, good point. Is this said somewhere (or can be deducted) that every Namekian who was born after cataclysm has lived to the time of Freeza coming? I mean none of them have died naturally by this time.

Well Dende says that the elder has given birth to 109 children, the youngest being Cargo. The Daizenshuu then map out how many of each caste live with each specific village elder before Freeza and Vegeta started killing them off, and it totals to 109. The only real examples we have though are the elder, Muri, Dende, Kami and Piccolo...

The Elder and Kami, or his original nameless self, were at least born in 261 during the cataclysm, and they lived to roughly 500 years of age; Elder 261-762 and Kami 261-767
Piccolo and Dende were born closer to the main story, and Muri by association too since we don't know his age. The ones on Namek at least had to be born before the Z Senshi arrived in 762 lol, and each has lived at least around 250 years as of DBO. Piccolo 753-1000+, Muri 762-1000+ and Dende 762-1000+

[Piccolo Daimao]

Isn't 108/109 children, with Dende being the 108/109th child? And was it ever mentioned that Cargo was younger than Dende? I thought they would've all been spawned at around the same time anyway, since the Great Elder was scared that the race might entirely die out, so he repopulated a large number of them, to the point that it greatly weakened his power, which may've (or did; I'm unsure whether or not it's confirmed in the Daizenshuu) resulted in the old, bloated appearance of him in the series. Or just that he's really old. But birthing children probably contributed, as we saw with old Daimaou.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Isn't 108/109 children, with Dende being the 108/109th child? And was it ever mentioned that Cargo was younger than Dende? I thought they would've all been spawned at around the same time anyway, since the Great Elder was scared that the race might entirely die out, so he repopulated a large number of them, to the point that it greatly weakened his power, which may've (or did; I'm unsure whether or not it's confirmed in the Daizenshuu) resulted in the old, bloated appearance of him in the series. Or just that he's really old. But birthing children probably contributed, as we saw with old Daimaou.

You're right, its 109, 110 counting the fat man himself. I don't know why I have 104 on my mind, I should have double checked. xD

Personally, I think the fat appearance of the Elder, and eventually Muri in DBO, is caused by the new age of Namekians seeing their father as a god of sorts, and the only one allowed to create new life. They bring him offerings of water which cause him to bloat and retain all that water weight. The same would eventually happen to Muri since he has taken over that position. It's a decent explanation for why we don't see Kami or Daimao get bloated as they age or create spawn.

Anyway, here's Herms:

That's from the daizenshuu, more or less. In the series, Dende says that he's the Great Elder's 108th child, and the daizenshuu say that Cargo is Dende's younger brother. That chart from Daizenshuu 4 you posted gets you a total of 109 Namekians besides the Great Elder, the Earth's God, Piccolo, and Piccolo's spawn. It's a bit confusing though, because the elder of each village isn't included in those totals for Dragon Clan and Warrior-type Namekians, and neither are Dende or Carge. So you get Muri + Dende + Cargo + 5 DV + 3 WT + Tsuno + 16 DC + 3 WT + Third Elder + 15 DC + 2 WT + Fourth Elder + 18 DC + 2 WT + Fifth Elder + 19 DC + 2 WT + Sixth Elder + 13 DC + 2 WT + Nail = 109

[Piccolo Daimao]

Personally, I think the fat appearance of the Elder, and eventually Muri in DBO, is caused by the new age of Namekians seeing their father as a god of sorts, and the only one allowed to create new life. They bring him offerings of water which cause him to bloat and retain all that water weight. The same would eventually happen to Muri since he has taken over that position. It's a decent explanation for why we don't see Kami or Daimao get bloated as they age or create spawn.

So the Namekians basically screwed him over? I don't like that thought. I just like to go with a combination of his age and spawning all those children that take up his energy.

We only ever saw 4 of Daimaou's children, in comparison to the Great Elder's 109, and perhaps his demonic ki would've prevented him from bloating if he spawned loads more. Either way, we don't know how exactly how old the Great Elder is, just that he's over 500. But we can safely say that he's older than God or Daimaou was, since he died of old age, while God and old Daimaou were still alive and could still move around.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

So the Namekians basically screwed him over? I don't like that thought. I just like to go with a combination of his age and spawning all those children that take up his energy.

We only ever saw 4 of Daimaou's children, in comparison to the Great Elder's 109, and perhaps his demonic ki would've prevented him from bloating if he spawned loads more. Either way, we don't know how exactly how old the Great Elder is, just that he's over 500. But we can safely say that he's older than God or Daimaou was, since he died of old age, while God and old Daimaou were still alive and could still move around.

It wasn't intentional of course, just affection gone awry in a sense. That sort of thing happens all the time.

Anyway, it seems to me that Kami and the Elder are very close in age. Just because fatty died before Kami doesn't mean anything, every individual can have a slightly different lifespan, and for a race that lives over 500 years, a 10-30 year difference can be compared to a human dying at 71 or 73. The elder was so close to a natural death that had he spawned another child, he very well could have died, the same warning Piano gave to Daimao upon his return. While it is true that we only saw Daimao have 5 kid, and only 3 while old, it is hinted that he had a lot more back when he first rampaged the Earth. Of course, that doesn't give us a number to compare to, but Daimaio still didn't get fat, and I don't think it can be attributed to his demon status since it seems like Daimao does more harm to himself than good, even just by using his full power.

[Piccolo Daimao]

So the Namekians basically screwed him over? I don't like that thought. I just like to go with a combination of his age and spawning all those children that take up his energy.

We only ever saw 4 of Daimaou's children, in comparison to the Great Elder's 109, and perhaps his demonic ki would've prevented him from bloating if he spawned loads more. Either way, we don't know how exactly how old the Great Elder is, just that he's over 500. But we can safely say that he's older than God or Daimaou was, since he died of old age, while God and old Daimaou were still alive and could still move around.

It wasn't intentional of course, just affection gone awry in a sense. That sort of thing happens all the time.

Anyway, it seems to me that Kami and the Elder are very close in age. Just because fatty died before Kami doesn't mean anything, every individual can have a slightly different lifespan, and for a race that lives over 500 years, a 10-30 year difference can be compared to a human dying at 71 or 73. The elder was so close to a natural death that had he spawned another child, he very well could have died, the same warning Piano gave to Daimao upon his return. While it is true that we only saw Daimao have 5 kid, and only 3 while old, it is hinted that he had a lot more back when he first rampaged the Earth. Of course, that doesn't give us a number to compare to, but Daimaio still didn't get fat, and I don't think it can be attributed to his demon status since it seems like Daimao does more harm to himself than good, even just by using his full power.

I know it wasn't intentional; I just don't buy it. And besides, such an intelligence race that don't even need a god (no, the Great Elder isn't their god) would probably know that giving him so much water would bloat him, and if they didn't, someone probably would've clocked on or at least had an inkling afterwards, thus they wouldn't do it again with Muuri.

I personally don't think that God and the Great Elder are close in age. Yes, by the time he merges with Piccolo, he's 506, and the Great Elder's over 500, but God still looked just as fit as he did before, while the Great Elder is old, fat and bloated (which I believe wasn't to do with water, but old age and spawning so many children, perhaps at such a fast rate that his body couldn't handle it).

I don't believe it's hinted that he had a lot more children back when he first rampaged Earth (unless you're talking about the anime). With many old people in real-life that aren't necessarily close to death, having children can cause strain on their body. There's a huge difference between 4 and 109 children.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I know it wasn't intentional; I just don't buy it. And besides, such an intelligence race that don't even need a god (no, the Great Elder isn't their god) would probably know that giving him so much water would bloat him, and if they didn't, someone probably would've clocked on or at least had an inkling afterwards, thus they wouldn't do it again with Muuri.

Uh...

The daizenshuu goes on to say (back on p.41) that for the Saiyans, their god was the Super Saiyan. For Namekians, their ‘god’ was Polunga, but since Saichourou had created Polunga, that made him, like, their Super-God or something. So it says that for Namekians, religion was more a matter of filial piety towards Saichourou.

http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... od#p147594

The Elder loved his children, and when they gave him offerings, he would accept them with open arms and no complaints. Regardless of if it caused unintentional side effects or not, it was part of their culture after the cataclysm, and the Elder would have been the only one to perhaps have knowledge from before the disaster. Muri would feel obligated to hold that tradition set up by their almighty father since he was taking over that role.

I personally don't think that God and the Great Elder are close in age. Yes, by the time he merges with Piccolo, he's 506, and the Great Elder's over 500, but God still looked just as fit as he did before, while the Great Elder is old, fat and bloated (which I believe wasn't to do with water, but old age and spawning so many children, perhaps at such a fast rate that his body couldn't handle it).

I don't believe it's hinted that he had a lot more children back when he first rampaged Earth (unless you're talking about the anime). With many old people in real-life that aren't necessarily close to death, having children can cause strain on their body. There's a huge difference between 4 and 109 children.

Even without the anime, I just doubt Piccolo alone was responsible for all the fear that Roshi described. It's hard to keep everyone under that same threat when your a single being on a whole planet, even if you have great power (its different for Freeza because he can bust planets and survive in space), having subordinates helps to make everyone feel that threat is always real. There might be a big difference between a 100 births and half a dozen, but nothing says to me that Daimaio only had that handful of kids IMO. Old people are strained when giving birth, but to me, having both characters in that same situation implies to me that they are in the same age range if they were going to be affected the same...

..You know, overall, I guess we should just agree to disagree on this. Our views stem from very different points, meaning it'd be a little to difficult to try and find common ground. lol

[Piccolo Daimao]

I know it wasn't intentional; I just don't buy it. And besides, such an intelligence race that don't even need a god (no, the Great Elder isn't their god) would probably know that giving him so much water would bloat him, and if they didn't, someone probably would've clocked on or at least had an inkling afterwards, thus they wouldn't do it again with Muuri.

Uh...

The daizenshuu goes on to say (back on p.41) that for the Saiyans, their god was the Super Saiyan. For Namekians, their ‘god’ was Polunga, but since Saichourou had created Polunga, that made him, like, their Super-God or something. So it says that for Namekians, religion was more a matter of filial piety towards Saichourou.

http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... od#p147594

The Elder loved his children, and when they gave him offerings, he would accept them with open arms and no complaints. Regardless of if it caused unintentional side effects or not, it was part of their culture after the cataclysm, and the Elder would have been the only one to perhaps have knowledge from before the disaster. Muri would feel obligated to hold that tradition set up by their almighty father since he was taking over that role.

I thought the Super Saiyan and the Great Elder/Porunga were "like gods" to the Saiyans and Namekians respectively, not gods that had literally been appointed to the job. I think Herms said something a while ago about the Saiyans not having an actual god perhaps due to their volatile nature and that they might just kill him anyway, and the Namekians perhaps not needing it because they were a peaceful and mature race.

I personally don't think that God and the Great Elder are close in age. Yes, by the time he merges with Piccolo, he's 506, and the Great Elder's over 500, but God still looked just as fit as he did before, while the Great Elder is old, fat and bloated (which I believe wasn't to do with water, but old age and spawning so many children, perhaps at such a fast rate that his body couldn't handle it).

I don't believe it's hinted that he had a lot more children back when he first rampaged Earth (unless you're talking about the anime). With many old people in real-life that aren't necessarily close to death, having children can cause strain on their body. There's a huge difference between 4 and 109 children.

Even without the anime, I just doubt Piccolo alone was responsible for all the fear that Roshi described. It's hard to keep everyone under that same threat when your a single being on a whole planet, even if you have great power (its different for Freeza because he can bust planets and survive in space), having subordinates helps to make everyone feel that threat is always real. There might be a big difference between a 100 births and half a dozen, but nothing says to me that Daimaio only had that handful of kids IMO. Old people are strained when giving birth, but to me, having both characters in that same situation implies to me that they are in the same age range if they were going to be affected the same...

..You know, overall, I guess we should just agree to disagree on this. Our views stem from very different points, meaning it'd be a little to difficult to try and find common ground. lol

We're not given a lot about Piccolo Daimaou's rampage, just that it happened a long, long time ago when Kame-sennin and Tsuru-sennin were younger training under Mutaito, who died using the Mafuuba to seal him up, and Daimaou tried to take over the world and people were scared shitless of him. He may've had henchmen, I guess, but we don't know how many, if at all. I could even argue that Daimaou hired humans, like previous criminals or something, to work for him. It may be a pretty shit argument, but still a valid one nonetheless.

But yeah, we should just agree to disagree. There's nothing more to be said.