Keep Vegeta dead?

[Piccolo Daimao]

Something I've been thinking about is how a lot of people think that it would've been better if Vegeta was kept dead, since his story arc had kind of come to a nice conclusion with his dying speech to Gokuu on Namek, which, in some ways, lended itself somewhat to Gokuu's character development (seemingly embracing his heritage a bit more and notably making more selfish and ill-advised decisions post-SS).

So reviving him after his character was "complete", only to have him bum around on Earth having barbeceues with Bulma and Yamcha, seemed jarring, and then after that, he just whined a lot over Gokuu and constantly got in the way of the characters', even helping the villains moreso than the villains. I think someone once said that he was more helpful to the heroes as a villain than he was an anti-hero.

On the other hand, Toriyama says that it was quite useful to have Vegeta around, and many people think there was potential to be explored in the rivalry between Gokuu and Vegeta, and Vegeta's eventual character development seemed more realistic, for lack of a better word, than, say, Tenshinhan. And there was a nice dynamic in having someone in the heroes' team continuously going against their actions in favour of his own selfish desires.

What do you think? Should Toriyama have kept Vegeta dead post-Freeza?

[Michsi]

Yes...and no...

It depends.

I think his death on Namek would have been appropriate. Tragic yet fitting and most of all, far more memorable than it is now.

The same with his death in the Buu Saga. The fact that he is brought back sorta cheapens what his sacrifice is suppsoed to represent.

Other than that, I can't really say his character gets treated too well from Freeza arc onward. He might provide some entertainment but it gets overshadowed by annoyance IMO a lot of the times.

Though to be honest, he is such a symbolic character for this franchise that, to be honest, I can't really imagine it without him. And I'm not really fond of him.

[TrunksTrevelyan0064]

If Vegeta stayed dead, I think Goku would have to be killed in Namek's explosion and stay dead too. Otherwise, him being the only SSJ would put him leagues ahead of Piccolo and the humans, making them even less relevant than they already are post-Freeza.

[Hades]

No, and Maybe. The thing is, Vegeta was absolutely necessary for future events (Androids), and offing him in the Freeza saga would leave too much of a mess for the Androids. Now, I would be more partial to that happening the Buu saga, as his death held more value in terms of character development (Somewhat Good man selling his soul to the devil and realising what he has done - I wish Toriyama had expanded more on that part of the story) in that arc than in the Freeza Saga (previous villain getting killed by his ex-boss).

ETA: I wouldn't have minded the Buu Saga ending with Vegeta's sacrifice, as you have a damned man saving the universe just so his son could be safe. It shows how much Vegeta had changed since he first arrived on Earth.

[Dabooyaka]

I think his character became bothersome after the Freeza arc. Vegeta went from being cool, to being a character that reminds me of a teenage girl with PMS problems. He is spoiled, loud, obnoxious, and a cry-baby. It's good they brought him back, just sucks his character became a pain in the ass.

[Piccolo Daimao]

If Vegeta stayed dead, I think Goku would have to be killed in Namek's explosion and stay dead too. Otherwise, him being the only SSJ would put him leagues ahead of Piccolo and the humans, making them even less relevant than they already are post-Freeza.

Are you forgetting about Gohan?

[Monkey D Goku]

I think Vegeta is too cool of a character to just die being held in bondage by Frieza his whole life he deserves a bit of freedom even though he did murder who knows how many people. Also in the the timeline we follow in the manga Vegeta saves Goku's life before Android 19 almost killed Goku. Also without Vegeta there would be no Trunks meaning no one to travel back in time to warn the Z fighters of the Androids and all the events that lead up to Cell. Although the Future could still change I would think it would change for the worse without Vegeta. Not to mention maybe Goku would feel alone not having someone remotely like him.

[vegetaslegacy15]

NO!!!

Obviously Vegeta is my favorite character and I am a fan boy but:
1. He had to be for the early Android arc since Goku was out of commission, Piccolo wasn't strong enough to kill both androids imo, and Gohan was not a SSJ yet.
2. When Vegeta is actually fighting and winning he is the most badass and when he is losing its funny to watch him get handled.
3. He was needed to distract Cell so Gohan could finish Cell off because Piccolo was not strong enough and Trunks was dead.

The only real place Vegeta could be taken out of is the Majin Buu saga since Piccolo could have been the one taken over by Babaddi and Gohan SHOULD of been the one who killed Buu anyway so there would not have had to been a SSJ3 Goku fight with Kid Buu.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I think Vegeta is too cool of a character to just die being held in bondage by Freeza

Thank you for putting that disturbingly arousing image in my head.

Btw, those saying that without Vegeta, Gokuu would've died and there'd be no Trunks, etc...I think, obviously, Toriyama would've just progressed the story in a different way.

[the_abberration]

Unfortunately for Vegeta, he fell victim to the same fate as Goku's other rivals turned friends. He fell to the background in lieu of the next Big Bad. (This is always a hurdle for some writers dealing with an ensemble cast to boot). It was a great idea to revive him back on Namek, since he is someone Goku could relate to. In addition to being someone who could logically keep up with Goku in power, when the story needed it.

Speaking of Big Bad, Vegeta kinda reminds me of Spike. When he was evil, he was at his best. But when he got his soul back and went to Angel, he became Angel "lite" in some ways (otherwise not as good as he was earlier on). Vegeta kinda fell into the same rut to me. No matter how good he could've been, he had to take back seat to Goku, then Gohan.

Vegeta dying in the Boo Arc, should have been it for him. We got to see him go back to his "old self", get a rematch with Goku, and finally show he had come full circle with his sacrifice (uhh...like Spike did in Season 7).

Hmm. Maybe Joss should just write the next Dragonball live action movie. j/k...no not really.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Unfortunately for Vegeta, he fell victim to the same fate as Goku's other rivals turned friends. He fell to the background in lieu of the next Big Bad. (This is always a hurdle for some writers dealing with an ensemble cast to boot). It was a great idea to revive him back on Namek, since he is someone Goku could relate to. In addition to being someone who could logically keep up with Goku in power, when the story needed it.

Speaking of Big Bad, Vegeta kinda reminds me of Spike. When he was evil, he was at his best. But when he got his soul back and went to Angel, he became Angel "lite" in some ways (otherwise not as good as he was earlier on). Vegeta kinda fell into the same rut to me. No matter how good he could've been, he had to take back seat to Goku, then Gohan.

I personally think he got just as much attention as Gokuu, being prevalent for large portions of the Cell arc (while Goku was out of commission for most of the arc) and consistently being one of the strongest characters in the series.

[dbgtFO]

On the other hand, Toriyama says that it was quite useful to have Vegeta around,

Obviously, since Vegeta rushed in to all the fights, moving the plot along faster, than if they had hid from the enemies, so they could think of a strategy first!

What do you think? Should Toriyama have kept Vegeta dead post-Freeza?

Nah, like Michsi I can't imagine it without him, so no.

[Mystic Gohan]

Quite frankly, i think they should have kept him dead. Ending z in after frieza was the ending i would have liked. Cell and buu arc was a mess imo. Surpassing a ssj? Becoming the legedary ssj was the greatest acomplishment and not something to be done by a 9 year old kid.

[Monkey D Goku]

I think Vegeta is too cool of a character to just die being held in bondage by Freeza

Thank you for putting that disturbingly arousing image in my head.

Btw, those saying that without Vegeta, Gokuu would've died and there'd be no Trunks, etc...I think, obviously, Toriyama would've just progressed the story in a different way.

Hehe you know what I meant lol I think Vegeta uses those exact words in the Anime. Akira Toriyama could have presented the story in another way but since it is the way it is I'm just gonna point outwhat could or may happen in the events that we know of already.

[CaBrPi]

Vegeta staying dead would've been a wonderful ending for his character... IF the manga had ended with Freeza.

However, as others have brought up, he's very much necessary for the progression of events in subsequent arcs.

[Gaffer Tape]

If he had been necessary, then I would say he should have been kept alive. But since he did nothing but get in the way (and usually the times he did something cool was when he was making up for his own mistakes), the main characters would have been much better off if he'd stayed dead. The story would also benefit because then you wouldn't have so many moments of plot progression occur solely because of the village idiot screwing everything up. But, again, like Mischi, I have a hard time picturing the rest of the series without him... but part of me really wants to try.

(But as an aside, Piccolo could have saved Goku from #19, and any random idiot could have come back in the time machine to give a warning, so Vegeta's presence is hardly necessary even for those couple of instances where he actually provides something positive.)

[Perfect]

-Piccolo saves Goku-
-Piccolo kills #19-
-Gero escapes-
-Gero activates #17 and #18-
-#17 and #18 beat the shit out of everyone-
-Cell absorbs #17 and #18-
-Perfect Cell kills everyone-

Logically Toriyama could have made the story work without any of the main characters, simply speaking because he's the writer. He could introduce a new cast or some how make a plot device/story arc that over powers the minor characters.

From an in-universe perspective, it's all entirely debatable. You could say Goku would have never gotten the idea to ascend, you could say Cell absorbed #17 and #18 before Goku could get to him, you could say Goku never went into the chamber, you could basically argue over every instance that Vegeta or any character was involved with. You could especially also dispute Bulma even building a time machine, sending a stranger and the stranger's reliability, etc.

[Saiga]

In universe, without Vegeta wouldn't it just become Trunks' timeline -Trunks?

[Perfect]

Well again, it's all debatable. Some people figure Bulma would build the time machine still and send some random person back. Personally, I feel like that would never work due to a thousand other possibilities. Without Trunks, the events may have unfolded very differently, possibly in her death like everyone else, her not building a time machine, her building one and going back but something going wrong (especially since she can't fly).

[Mystic Gohan]

Well obviously, if you keep the story going past freeza arc and keep vegeta dead, AT is going to give a more prominent role to either piccolo or tien. Hell, i wouldn't be surprised if instead of future trunks, future gohan or future bulma herself comes back to warn goku or something.