Piccolo stronger than Super Saiya-jin Goten & Trunks?

[James R. Cadwell]

Towards the middle of the Buu Saga, Mystic Gohan arrives on Earth just in time to rescue Goten, Trunks and Piccolo from Majin Buu. Gohan quickly demonstrates that he's significantly stronger than Buu during a short, one-sided battle.

Realizing that he's hopelessly outmatched by Mystic Gohan, Buu goads Goten and Trunks into fusing and attacking him at Super Saiya-jin 3. Immediately thereafter, Buu uses a special technique to absorb both Gotenks and Piccolo and transforms into a more powerful version of himself, taking on the characteristics of Super Saiya-jin 3 Gotenks. (i.e. extended forelock "tentacle" length reminiscent of SSJ-3 hair, protruding brow, elements of Gotenks' costume.)

This form of Buu is easily able to overpower Mystic Gohan and basically beats him into the ground until Goku arrives with the fusion earrings. Goku tosses one of the earrings to Gohan, but Buu interferes and knocks the earring away before Gohan can put it on. While Gohan searches for the earring, Goku briefly fights Buu using his Super Saiya-jin 3 form until Buu suddenly transforms AGAIN as the fusion between Goten and Trunks expires within his body. Buu now has the characteristics of Piccolo.

Buu appears to adopt characteristics of people he has absorbed with priority based on strength. (i.e. the strongest fighter is dominant in Buu's appearance) Further evidence of this can be found after Buu absorbs Mystic Gohan and assumes elements of Gohan's costume and appearance as well.

Based on that, wouldn't the fact that Buu reverted to a "Piccolo form" after the Gotenks fusion expired mean that Piccolo is stronger (and therefore more influential in Buu's appearance) than both Goten and Trunks?

[Sun_Wukong]

Could it be that Goten and Trunks "appear" to be strong because they became SSJ at such a young age? You have to think about it. Goku barely managed to beat Piccolo at the end of DB. But then again, Piccolo was the main baddie towards the end of the series. All in all, Id have to say Piccolo is at the same level as a SSJ. He could probably take down Goten and Trunks easily, since none of them have any real fighting skill. Them as Gotenks? I'm not so sure.

[Dai]

Gotenks would whoop Piccolo's ass with exaggerated ease. Yet apart, Piccolo could probably take them both down.

Hm.

[Jerseymilk]

I found that when Buu absorbed Piccolo, he took on his intelligence and keen insight more than his strength. Notice how he was as Gohan calls him, a "retard" before the absorption. It really helped Buu because he could read Gohan's moves more since Piccolo was the one that trained him and he also used this to rattle Gohan up mentally-wise so he wasn't able to focus as well.

[SonGohan-san]

From a logical standpoint, heck yeah Piccolo could beat SSJ Goten and Trunks...easily. When he becomes a "Super Namek" after fusing with Kami, Piccolo is said to be the strongest of the Z Senshi temporarily (unfortunately this lasted for like .0007 seconds). So to say that Goten or Trunks by themselves could beat Piccolo is absurd to me and doesn't make sense. And isn't there a fan-wide understanding that Goten and Trunk's super Saiyan isn't as strong as the adult verisons?


But then again, you could argue that nothing about the Buu saga makes sense if you wanted to say Goten and Trunks were stronger.

[Kodoshin]

It's a good thing Piccolo isn't the strongest for a long period of time, seriously the way he is he would simply squash the bad guys without much drama

[Deus ex Machina]

Based on that, wouldn't the fact that Buu reverted to a "Piccolo form" after the Gotenks fusion expired mean that Piccolo is stronger (and therefore more influential in Buu's appearance) than both Goten and Trunks?

That was a very well thought out and typed post, especially for your first. However it doesn't seem like your asking a question, just making a point...one which I think most already assumed.

But your completly correct; Piccolo is much much stronger than Super Saiyan Trunks and Goten. If your argument is why Gotenks appears to be made unrealistically powerful, their's a good answer for that as well.

Gotenks power level (PL) isn't based on Trunks' PL + Goten's PL, it seems to be more like Trunks' PL multipled by Gotens. This 'fusion theory' is also backed up by Vegito's appearance, since his PL is also much higher than simply Goku + Vegeta PL's.

[Zackarotto]

Multiplied by a small fraction of Goten's PL, maybe. That's some really messed up math you have there.

[Deus ex Machina]

Multiplied by a small fraction of Goten's PL, maybe. That's some really messed up math you have there.

Nah, it really works out if you think about it. After all, if Trunks' PL wasn't multiplied by Goten's, how would he have the ability to transform into SSJ3 so easily, while both Trunks and Goten can't exceed basic Super Saiyan?

[laserkid]

yes but 1 X 1 is still 1 not 3

[PsyLiam]

As much as I hate using Power Levels, let's use them here as an example:

Piccolo's power level when Nappa and Vegeta arrive on Earth is 1220. Kuririn's is 1083. Now, let's assume that fusion really does multiply the two fusies (I have made up a word!) power. And let's assume that that joke picture actually happened. What would Puririn's power level be?

1,321,260

That's over a million. Puririn would walk all over the Ginyu force, and (if I'm not mistaken) second form Freeza too.

[SonGohan-san]

Check this out...

It's the Namek saga. Piccolo has just been wished back to help fight Furiza.

Let's say I use Piccolo's power when he fought Nappa (1220, even though we can assume its higher by this point in the series) like Liam here did and let's multiply that by Nail's PL which if I'm not mistaken was listed around 52,000.

We now have a new warrior with a stunning PL of 63,440,000. Yeah, I'd say he's ready to kill Furiza in one punch, then take on Majin Buu.

[Zackarotto]

Bingo.

Although I probably should have just given you an example a while back.

[Dai]

Yeah, but naturally Namekian fusion works differently.

Or, err, uh, something...

[SonGohan-san]

Very true. I knew someone would call me out on that.

[Dayspring]

Sorry to disproove you all (what am I saying, no I'm not! ), but Piccolo when he fought Nappa was at 3,500. Nail was at 42,000. Piccolo post fusion was 1,000,000. 3,500 x 42,000 = 147,000,000.

As for Vegitto, Potara just adds the strength of the fusors together. Factors like if they're rivals just increases it more.

Lastly, Boo looked like Piccolo not because he's stronger than SSJ Goten + Trunks (though I think he is, or at least AS strong as them), but because Goten+Trunks became extremely weak (they just went from SSJ3 AND from a fused form, both of which use tons of energy).

[PsyLiam]

Is the 3,500 from the Daizenshuu? Or is it mentioned in the anime? I'm pretty sure the manga only mentions his initial power level, which is (checks again) 1,220.

Of course, Vegeta mentions that Piccolo and others can vary their power level, so it's not a great measurement anyway.

[James R. Cadwell]

Sorry to disproove you all (what am I saying, no I'm not! ), but Piccolo when he fought Nappa was at 3,500. Nail was at 42,000. Piccolo post fusion was 1,000,000. 3,500 x 42,000 = 147,000,000.

Can you cite a source for this information? (Specifically the rating of one million for Piccolo after fusing with Nail.)

As for Vegitto, Potara just adds the strength of the fusors together. Factors like if they're rivals just increases it more.

Source?

Lastly, Boo looked like Piccolo not because he's stronger than SSJ Goten + Trunks (though I think he is, or at least AS strong as them), but because Goten+Trunks became extremely weak (they just went from SSJ3 AND from a fused form, both of which use tons of energy).

This is a satisfactory explanation.

[Dayspring]

Is the 3,500 from the Daizenshuu? Or is it mentioned in the anime? I'm pretty sure the manga only mentions his initial power level, which is (checks again) 1,220.

Fair enough. 1,220 is the only PL given for Piccolo in the manga (against Nappa), but that wasn't his max. 42,000 IS given in the manga for Nail, and 1 mil for Freeza is as well.

Can you cite a source for this information? (Specifically the rating of one million for Piccolo after fusing with Nail.)

3,500 and 1 mil for Piccolo are from his biography in daizenshuu 7.

Dayspring wrote:
As for Vegitto, Potara just adds the strength of the fusors together. Factors like if they're rivals just increases it more.


Source?

Volume 42 of the manga. Rou Kaioshin says it to Kibitoshin while they're watching Vegetto get medievil on Boo's ass.

Dayspring wrote:
Lastly, Boo looked like Piccolo not because he's stronger than SSJ Goten + Trunks (though I think he is, or at least AS strong as them), but because Goten+Trunks became extremely weak (they just went from SSJ3 AND from a fused form, both of which use tons of energy).


This is a satisfactory explanation.

Uh...thanks?

[SonGohan-san]

Whatever. The point I was making was that I didn't think fusions multiplied the two persons PLs. So whether it was 42,000 or 52,000 is kinda pointless when you consider that the end result was still ridiculous.

Of course, this was all before Dai made the point that Namek fusions may be different than the Buu Saga fusions. Anyways...