Anyone here agree Dragon Ball (Z) has the MOST EPIC Battles

[PiscesCaballero]

I've discussed this with some Dragon Ball fans in other sites (one who also frequents this forum).

Of all the fighting manga I ever read, I would say Dragon Ball-especially Part Z- has the MOST EXCITING and EPIC battles I've seen in all of Shonen. No other fighting Shonen has been able to grip me wanting to see more and more of a fight panel as Dragon Ball. I would daresay that I'd rather read Dragon Ball Manga fights than watch actual animated battles in other Shonen fighting anime. Handsdown for me Dragon Ball (Z esp.) has the best battles I ever seen in anime/manga and I go as far as saying in all fiction.

Toriyama was a genius to be able to instill such tension and fast excitement into mere comic strips. What makes it all the more remarkable was that he started as a comedy mangaka.

I'd have to agree the same for the original Japanese Z(minus the filler fights which consisted of blowing random stuff that suddenly come back the next other few episodes when the real fight actually begins). The Kikuchi score adds such a feeling you want to view more and more of what will happen in the next episode. I won't lie when I stated I watched some of the biggest battles in DBZ at least 50+ times on clips in Youtube over and over and I'm amazed the tension is not lost and it feels just as exciting as the first time I viewed the clip (please note I haven't watched the American dubs and have gone early on Kai so I cannot comment on those).

What do you think? At the very least Part Z will remain in my top 5 manga with best fights ever.

Is there anyone here who actually viewed a single fight clip over and over on Youtube because it was just that exciting and epic (or manga chapter-can't comment on this I read a fan scanlation I later deleted once I finished DB)?

[GotenDaisuki]

Some of the fights were dragged out for sooo long in the anime (Freeza vs. Goku), and that kind of ruins it for me. I don't want to watch 10 episodes of two guys going at it. Henceforth I love manga and Kai fights, because in the manga you can zip right through them and Kai's fights aren't as boring and dragged out (plus Kenji Yamamoto's musical score made it all the more exciting).

[Gonstead]

Really when I think about it, the Burter and Jeice vs Goku fight wasn't all that good and yet i've in one way or another always ended up renting it when I was younger. Same with the Afterlife Tournament episodes.

I still question it to this day.

As for Dragon Ball Z having the best? If your into bloody fist fights then I'd agree but other than that, it's subjective at best.

[dprez]

Epic in the sense that the outcome of the fights had a far greater impact on the world than those of early Dragon Ball. All of the battles become far more grand on a world scale compared to the Tournament fights of early Dragon Ball. In that sense they could be considered the most epic. The fights themselves that kid Goku experienced may have been just as intense as his battles as an adult (Tao Pai Pai, Piccolo Daimao, Ma Junior) but the outcome and purpose of those battles held a much greater meaning in "Z'. Dragon Ball "Z" as a whole holds a much greater sense of "epic" and "awe" than early Dragon Ball, simply because of how the story progresses away form earth, as does it's power levels and characters.

[Rory]

Nah, not really. Dragon Ball had the better fights, in my opinion. Gokuh vs Piccolo wasn't matched by anything that came after it, except perhaps by Gokuh vs Freeza (because of what was at stake, and how well Super Saiyan was handled in the manga).

[Saiga]

I'd say Z definitely had better fights than what came before it. Goku vs Piccolo Jr was one of the only good fights before Z.

[Rory]

I'd say Z definitely had better fights than what came before it. Goku vs Piccolo Jr was one of the only good fights before Z.

Except for every important Tenka-ichi Budokai fight. And Gokuh vs Piccolo Daimao.

[JulieYBM]

In terms of the comic, I think Toriyama did peak with the Ma Junior fight, although I do feel that his work up through at least the Freeza fight was still strong and good. Toriyama's fights were really incredibly storyboarded up to that point. Still, while the fights lost a little luster in the comic Toriyama's art certainly didn't up until the Majin Boo arc. The Cell Games, as weakly as they are choreographed, are still gorgeously drawn. No shounen comic artist has managed to match Toriyama's choreography (although Kishimoto has done quite a few quite storyboards himself).

For the TV animation, I think the fights in Dragon Ball Z tended to be much better. Dragon Ball didn't have as many key animators and in-between animators, but around the time we got to the Namek arc the fights started getting a lost more detailed. There's a few exchanges during the Super Saiyan Gokuu fight that I don't think have been matched by Toei Animation in terms of sheer power in the animation. Castor Troy's AMV, The Extreme Battle really shows off the great achievements Toei made with Dragon Ball Z, espicially the Shimanuki/Hisada episodes.

[Akumaito Beam]

I've always kind of thought it was funny that I've never found any Dragon Ball battles overly interesting. I'm really in it solely for the story and characters so the fighting has always been secondary to me. I really loved a lot of the fighting in Naruto, One Piece and Yu Yu Hakusho so I guess something about Dragon Ball's fights particularly don't do much for me. Maybe somewhere down the road they became too repetitive or too frequent? It's hard to pin point why.

[AgitoZ]

The Z era fights epic? I don't know. The end results and some attacks could be described as that, but the majority of the fights are usually just one-on-one, nothing on a real grand scale.

I've always kind of thought it was funny that I've never found any Dragon Ball battles overly interesting. I'm really in it solely for the story and characters so the fighting has always been secondary to me. I really loved a lot of the fighting in Naruto, One Piece and Yu Yu Hakusho so I guess something about Dragon Ball's fights particularly don't do much for me. Maybe somewhere down the road they became too repetitive or too frequent? It's hard to pin point why.

Really? That's the one thing I've always had a problem with recent series. As JulieYBM already mentioned, Toriyama is a great storyteller when drawing fights. He never leaves any guess work, in either location or even what hits landed. We don't just see a punch, we see it's follow up, and it's finish.

As much as I like One Piece I always found its fighting to be its weakest point. It's just hard to follow. Many authors seem like they need to pop in a Jackie Chan movie and take some notes. I guess the best way to compare recent series to DB is if they were people playing fighting games. The recent series would be mashing buttons and DB would be juggling their sorry behinds.

[Saiga]

I'd say Z definitely had better fights than what came before it. Goku vs Piccolo Jr was one of the only good fights before Z.

Except for every important Tenka-ichi Budokai fight. And Gokuh vs Piccolo Daimao.

I wouldn't say that. I thought the Tenshinhan vs Goku fight was fairly poor, for instance. In fact off the top of my head Goku vs Piccolo Jr and Goku vs Jackie Chun are the only two "epic" Tenkaichi fights.

[Akumaito Beam]

Really? That's the one thing I've always had a problem with recent series. As JulieYBM already mentioned, Toriyama is a great storyteller when drawing fights. He never leaves any guess work, in either location or even what hits landed. We don't just see a punch, we see it's follow up, and it's finish.

I actually had the anime in mind for One Piece and Naruto when I wrote that. I'm really not a particularly huge fan of anime, especially not recent anime so art trends in the modern comics has kind of eluded me for the most part. Either way you'll hear no argument from me, Toriyama is a great artist!

[funrush]

I'd say Z definitely had better fights than what came before it. Goku vs Piccolo Jr was one of the only good fights before Z.

Except for every important Tenka-ichi Budokai fight. And Gokuh vs Piccolo Daimao.

I wouldn't say that. I thought the Tenshinhan vs Goku fight was fairly poor, for instance. In fact off the top of my head Goku vs Piccolo Jr and Goku vs Jackie Chun are the only two "epic" Tenkaichi fights.

I thought the fight with Tenshinhan was good. It was not on par with say, the fight with Jackie Chun, but it was still pretty good, in my opinion.

[JulieYBM]

If I may, I dug this baby up. Neat little article that really helps to articulate the genius of Toriyama's art.

It's funny, exciting, and touching, with a fluid, blow-by-blow approach to action and violence that leaves most super-hero comics in the dust.

I actually had the anime in mind for One Piece and Naruto when I wrote that. I'm really not a particularly huge fan of anime, especially not recent anime so the art trends in the modern comics has kind of eluded me for the most part. Either way you'll hear no argument from me, Toriyama is a great artist!

I'd have to agree, a lot of the fighting in the Naruto (and Bleach) TV series' is incredible. This is thanks to to Studio Pierrot's use of extremely talented key animators and focus on style. Guys like Yamashita Hiroyuki (beware, the animation for these is flipped) and Matsumoto Norio really bring an incredible weight to the animation for these shows. By contrast, even when One Piece does get the odd bit of high quality animation it's usually sparce or poorly storyboarded.

[Godo]

I'd say that in Dragonball Z, fairly few of the fights count as "epic" to me. Most of them are a mix of "punch each other, one of you is the weaker one, finish it off with a huge ki blast".
This, in my opinion, greatly takes away the "epic" factor (a word which I believe has lost it's meaning in the Internet and is used too easily).
The fights in Dragonball had more suspense and variety in the least.
If I would take the greatest part of Dragonball Z, it would be up to the end of the Freeza Arc. After that, the fights clearly lose their touch and become repetitions of the same factors before (regeneration is used a lot more, absorption is added and recycled once again later, with permitting the heroes to also fuse by their own means). And also, huge ki attacks play a greater role, and the physical fighting gets pretty much mutilated into some kind of high-speed barrage of hits exclusively. This happened during the Freeza Arc too, but to a lesser degree. Let's say that in the Freeza Arc, it was at least tolerable. In my mind, laziness showing itself in not caring to actually portray fights and draw them out correctly (and excluding the other characters since they can't "follow" the other fighters due to not being able to see their high super speed) is a factor that highly draws down the quality of the fights. And also the constant mentions of "he is a Saiya-jin, don't help him in the fight".
And the Super Saiya-jin form was indeed epic. The first time it was used. Seeing many other characters use it and "evolve" the once awed transformation kills the feeling of the subsequent battles to me.

Out of the most enjoyable and awesome fights, I'd have to choose the ones before Dragonball Z and also maybe some fights in the Saiya-jin and Freeza Arcs.
When it comes to "epicness" IMO, Dragonball Z lacks the qualities to qualify as "epic", even though the fights are...flashy.

[Mayweather]

Goku vs Majin Vegeta was amazing, one of the greatest battles.

[Rory]

Goku vs Majin Vegeta was amazing, one of the greatest battles.

Shame it was only in the anime.

[DBZ Mick]

Dragonball had the best fights when it was a combination of energy attacks, melee and strategy and this remained until the Freeza arc of DBZ.

The anime at least though handled a lot of fights in the manga better than Toriyama did later on- Goku vs Majin Vegeta, Piccolo vs #17 for example.

[SylentEcho]

Manga-wise, it certainly has the best fights.

Anime-wise there are a few fights that are up there with DBZ. Such as:

1. Ichigo vs. Ulquoirra (The second fight)
2. Ichigo vs. Grimmjow Jaggerjakks
3. Aizen's final confrontation and evolution.
4. Ichigo vs. Noitora
5. Naruto vs. Gaara
6. Rock Lee vs. Gaara
7. Hidan and Kakuzu vs. Team Asuma
8. Pain destroying everything, killing everyone and then fighting Naruto
9. The "War Of The Best" in One Piece (holy **** it was awesome)
10. The "Fourth Great Ninja War" in Naruto


The thing is, most of the fights post Ginyu became predictable. Trunks getting a hole through his heart courtesy of Cell wasn't predictable, but we all knew he would be brought back with the Dragon Balls. This is why I like Kai, they made some fights way better like Goku vs Freeza. Boo constantly changing forms at the end of Z was a breath of fresh air.

Goku vs Majin Vegeta was amazing, one of the greatest battles.

I thought that fight was one of the worst in the whole series. It could have been so much more. All they did was lock hands, butt heads, kick each other on the legs, chase one another into caves, blast their way out of those caves, punch each other simultaneously in the face and then talk. There, that's everything they did.

[perucho1990]

Manga-wise, it certainly has the best fights.

Anime-wise there are a few fights that are up there with DBZ. Such as:

1. Ichigo vs. Ulquoirra (The second fight)
2. Ichigo vs. Grimmjow Jaggerjakks
3. Aizen's final confrontation and evolution.
4. Ichigo vs. Noitora
5. Naruto vs. Gaara
6. Rock Lee vs. Gaara
7. Hidan and Kakuzu vs. Team Asuma
8. Pain destroying everything, killing everyone and then fighting Naruto
9. The "War Of The Best" in One Piece (holy **** it was awesome)
10. The "Fourth Great Ninja War" in Naruto


The thing is, most of the fights post Ginyu became predictable. Trunks getting a hole through his heart courtesy of Cell wasn't predictable, but we all knew he would be brought back with the Dragon Balls. This is why I like Kai, they made some fights way better like Goku vs Freeza. Boo constantly changing forms at the end of Z was a breath of fresh air.

The Naruto War Arc? Why? When its just beginning(in the anime).

Also no Strawhats vs CP9? or When Luffy goes Kenshiro with the Jet Gatling.