Theory about Vegetto's power

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Note: I no longer support this theory.

In the Super Exiting Guide: Story Volume, Vegetto's battle power was said to be Goku's X Vegeta's battle powers.
The Daizenshuu (TV Animation Part 2 or 3) however, states that Vegetto's power is several time greater than Goku's or Vegeta's.
Now let's see: the SEGs are based on the manga. The Daizenshuu TV Animation guides are based on the anime. This could mean that Manga Vegetto =/= Anime Vegetto. Manga Vegetto is Goku X Vegeta, which means that his battle power should be worlds above SSJ4 Gogeta's. The video games place Super Vegetto slightly stronger than SSJ Gogeta, and have SSJ4 Gogeta as the stronger character in the games. The video games are based on the anime versions. It's said in both manga/anime & Daizenshuu that Potara are greater than Fusion.
So, I believe this: Super Vegetto (Manga) > SSJ4 Gogeta > Super Veggeto (Anime) > SSJ Gogeta.
By this, it doesn't matter if Vegetto is Goku X Vegeta in the manga, since either way he is the strongest being ever in the manga, and makes SSJ4 Gogeta the strongest being in the anime, since obviously he was intended to be the strongest warrior ever. Manga Vegetto doesn't exist in the anime, like SSJ4 Gogeta doesn't exist in the manga, so it doesn't really matter who is strongest than who. Super Vegetto remains the strongest being in the manga, and SSJ4 Gogeta remains the strongest being in the anime, but Super Vegetto is the strongest being in the whole franchise. What do you guys think about this?

[hleV]

Base Vegetto is stronger than anyone.

[Kaboom]

Well, obviously!

[lash]

This could mean that Manga Vegetto =/= Anime Vegetto. Manga Vegetto is Goku X Vegeta, which means that his battle power should be worlds above SSJ4 Gogeta's.

I dunno why people jump to such absurd conclusions when they hear Goku X Vegeta = Vegetto.
Numbers can get infinitely bigger, remember?
While Super Vegetto could be Goku x Vegeta x SSJ multiplier to you. SSJ4 Gogeta could be Goku x Vegeta x Googleplex to the Google power.

Anyway, no. SSJ4 Gogeta would thrash any version of Super Vegetto, anime, manga, fantasy land, your fanfic, VegettoEX's fanfic, it doesn't matter.

[Saiga]

If that Goku x Vegeta line was literal, I doubt he'd need to transform against Gohan-Boo as he did.

I put base Vegetto above SS3 Gotenks at best.

[hleV]

SSJ4 Gogeta could be Goku x Vegeta x Googleplex to the Google power.

SSJ4 Gogeta is stated to only be tens of times stronger than SSJ4 Goku or Vegeta separately, so SSJ4 Gogeta is less than 100 times stronger than SSJ4 Goku/Vegeta.

If that Goku x Vegeta line was literal, I doubt he'd need to transform against Gohan-Boo as he did.

You forget the fact that Vegetto only realized his true strength AFTER going SSJ and kicking Boo's ass.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I dunno why people jump to such absurd conclusions when they hear Goku X Vegeta = Vegetto.
Numbers can get infinitely bigger, remember?
While Super Vegetto could be Goku x Vegeta x SSJ multiplier to you. SSJ4 Gogeta could be Goku x Vegeta x Googleplex to the Google power.

SSJ4 Gogeta was stated in GT Perfect Files #2 to be some dozens stronger than SSJ4 Goku or Vegeta, while base Vegetto is some millions stronger than base Boo arc Goku or Vegeta.

[Saiga]

No, I didn't forget that. But he would already know how strong Gohan-Boo was and should have a good grasp of his own abilities. And it's also entirely possible that he knew all along how strong he'd be and was just trash talking to Boo.

[hleV]

No, I didn't forget that. But he would already know how strong Gohan-Boo was and should have a good grasp of his own abilities. And it's also entirely possible that he knew all along how strong he'd be and was just trash talking to Boo.

So you just go against a guidebook's statement (which absolutely doesn't contradict anything) only because you don't like it. That doesn't help you prove things.

[Saiga]

No, I didn't forget that. But he would already know how strong Gohan-Boo was and should have a good grasp of his own abilities. And it's also entirely possible that he knew all along how strong he'd be and was just trash talking to Boo.

So you just go against a guidebook's statement (which absolutely doesn't contradict anything) only because you don't like it. That doesn't help you prove things.

Because I don't like it? That's not the reason. Because it doesn't make sense.

[hleV]

Because it doesn't make sense.

It perfectly does. Since you apparently are not going to provide any more arguments which I'd need to counter, this concludes our conversation.

[Saiga]

Because it doesn't make sense.

It perfectly does.

To me, maybe. Not to me. And just because I don't take it 100% literally doesn't mean I'm going against it either.

[Piccolo Daimao]

What? Why are you complicating things like this? Why are you taking things so ridiculously literal and scrutinizing the fuck out of it?

Vegetto is simply stronger than merely the sum of Gokuu and Vegeta, and unlike Fusion, it's more like multiplication than addition. I doubt the guides even took the battle power number system into consideration, which had been tossed in the trash long before the Freeza arc.

What we know is that Super Vegetto's the strongest character in the manga, and SS4 Gogeta is the strongest character in the anime. Or maybe Godku is.

Also, I never thought that Super Gogeta was that far off from Super Vegetto. I know that Potara's stronger than Fusion, but pure strength clearly wasn't the only thing that made it a better method for fusion than the Metamorians (no power-aligning, no dependence on similar powers and body size, no dance, no time limit, possible "rivalry boost" possibly unique to Potara).

[DBZGTKOSDH]

What? Why are you complicating things like this?

To combine everything officially said, so that they can make sense together.

Why are you taking things so ridiculously literal and scrutinizing the fuck out of it?

I have yet to understand the logic behind "Vegetto = Goku X Vegeta" not being literal. It was said in a guidebook, for God's shake, not in the manga/anime where one may say something that could be taken as a metaphor.

Also, I never thought that Super Gogeta was that far off from Super Vegetto. I know that Potara's stronger than Fusion, but pure strength clearly wasn't the only thing that made it a better method for fusion than the Metamorians (no power-aligning, no dependence on similar powers and body size, no dance, no time limit, possible "rivalry boost" possibly unique to Potara).

I place Super Vegetto slightly stronger because there are 2 What-If battles between Super Vegetto & SSJ Gogeta, and in both of them Vegetto wins, and not because the Fusion timed up.

[lash]

SSJ4 Gogeta is stated to only be tens of times stronger than SSJ4 Goku or Vegeta separately, so SSJ4 Gogeta is less than 100 times stronger than SSJ4 Goku/Vegeta.

You realize 'tens of times' is still ambiguously arbitrary right?
There's no "less than 100 times" stronger limit. There's no limit at all.

SSJ4 Gogeta could be a quadrillion "tens of times" stronger than SSJ4 Goku and Vegeta and the statement in the Perfect files vol 2 is still satisfied. It completely fits with "several tens of times stronger", since "several" is an ambiguous term only smaller than the similarly ambiguous term of "many".

SSJ4 Gogeta was stated in GT Perfect Files #2 to be some dozens stronger than SSJ4 Goku or Vegeta, while base Vegetto is some millions stronger than base Boo arc Goku or Vegeta.

As I explained above, doesn't change what I said at all.

[hleV]

Why are you complicating things like this?

I'm doing the opposite - sticking with what's official and in no way contradicted.

You realize 'tens of times' is still ambiguously arbitrary right?

It's not ambiguous at all. It's more than just ten, but less than hundreds, let alone thousands.

[lash]

It's not ambiguous at all. It's more than just ten, but less than hundreds, let alone thousands.

It's still tens of times. But since it's stated to be "several tens of times"... and 'several' is an ambiguous word, in plain English it can be up to an infinite amount of "tens of times".

[hleV]

It's not ambiguous at all. It's more than just ten, but less than hundreds, let alone thousands.

It's still tens of times. But since it's stated to be "several tens of times"... and 'several' is an ambiguous word, in plain English it can be up to an infinite amount of "tens of times".

And you translate "several" to "infinite" to make SSJ4 Gogeta stronger than Vegetto? There really is no way that by "several" they meant some huge number, so what's the point of this argument, really?

[lash]

And you translate "several" to "infinite" to make SSJ4 Gogeta stronger than Vegetto? There really is no way that by "several" they meant some huge number, so what's the point of this argument, really?

On the Toei site, they even use the term 'many' tens of times to describe SSJ4 Gogeta. There's obviously a way for them to have possibly meant some huge number...otherwise we wouldn't be haven't this argument, really.

The overall point is, there's no limit to Gogeta's power as I've explained. If one wants to think Vegetto = Goku x Vegeta's battle power multiplied(which doesn't make sense anyway... http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 50#p514150) it doesn't magically mean he's anywhere near SSJ4 Gogeta in power:

Numbers can get infinitely bigger, remember?
While Super Vegetto could be Goku x Vegeta x SSJ multiplier to you. SSJ4 Gogeta could be Goku x Vegeta x Googleplex to the Google power.

[Piccolo Daimao]

What? Why are you complicating things like this?

To combine everything officially said, so that they can make sense together.

The guidebooks often conflict with each other, and even the Daizenshuu contradicts itself (e.g. saying that Gohan was SS against Dabra in one, but SS2 in another). Things can't or don't always make sense together, nor do they particularly have to.

Why are you taking things so ridiculously literal and scrutinizing the fuck out of it?

I have yet to understand the logic behind "Vegetto = Goku X Vegeta" not being literal. It was said in a guidebook, for God's shake, not in the manga/anime where one may say something that could be taken as a metaphor.

Did it ever mention "battle power" specifically there? Or, because it's basically synonymous for strength (even in the manga, long after the whole scouter-thing stuff had been thrown out; I recall second-form Cell saying something like, "I wonder how my battle power is..."), even in the numbered sense that Freeza's gang talk about it? No.

In that same section, it says something like, "Not an addition of powers, but something as great/close to multiplication". But in terms of you taking things so literally, I'm not just talking about that anyway. Frankly, this topic crops up so often that I'm done caring, so you can interpret it how you want. No skin off my nose.

Also, I never thought that Super Gogeta was that far off from Super Vegetto. I know that Potara's stronger than Fusion, but pure strength clearly wasn't the only thing that made it a better method for fusion than the Metamorians (no power-aligning, no dependence on similar powers and body size, no dance, no time limit, possible "rivalry boost" possibly unique to Potara).

I place Super Vegetto slightly stronger because there are 2 What-If battles between Super Vegetto & SSJ Gogeta, and in both of them Vegetto wins, and not because the Fusion timed up.

Do you mean the what-if battles in video games? The ones that were hypothetical and never actually took place?