Powerlevels?

Sun_Wukong · Post by **Sun_Wukong** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:49 am

I've heard rants about powerlevels on every DB board I've been to. But after the Freeza/Trunks arc, no one uses Scouters, so powerlevels are never mentioned. Correct? I know EX gets annoyed with them, does anyone else?

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:59 am

I get annoyed with them too. I don't think it really matters too much, at least after the Freeza saga. It was a big deal when Freeza's power level was apparently one million, because so much fuss had been made up to that point with the scouters, and Vegita and Nappa, but I think it's enough just to see the power of SSJs or be told this particular warrior is the strongest, or to see through observing the mass destruction their powers cause is enough to get a good idea. At least for me anyway.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 11:03 am

I think the biggest problem with power levels was where the first two seasons ended, and the fact that it got hung up for about two years during that time.

When season two ends, power levels are still a pretty big thing. Freeza's men are all running around with scouters on, and we're finding out that it's really only the Earth characters that can surpress their Ki at will. The villains checking their scouters and gasping in horror had been a huge thing since Raditz was around, and it wasn't slowing down (it would very soon after Goku starts fighting Freeza, directly... Freeza mentions his power level a few times, but other than that, they kinda forget about it...).

So we've got a show that's HUGE on this concept, and all of a sudden... it just stops having new episodes for a couple years, really. All fans have to hang onto are these episodes and this ridiculous concept of power levels. Since most of them couldn't MOVE ON the way the show does, they start harping on what they've got... and gosh darn it... it was power levels.

Not that this was the question you were asking about, but I think that may help to describe the situation. Sorta.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:17 pm

I dislike them because of the implication that a person's power level is all that matters. Goku says when fighting Raditz something along the lines of "You're a poor warrior of you think that pure strength is all that determines a fight. There's technique and...other stuff".

But then the show constantly proves that a person with a higher power level will ALWAYS beat someone with a lower power level. You have a power level of 1024 and your opponent has one of 1030? You'll lose.

Alias · Post by **Alias** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:47 pm

Not completely.

There's the Piccolo VS Freeza fight. Piccolo was weaker than Freeza's second form, but was much more skilled and knew more techniques. He was definitely winning until Freeza made so great a power jump with his third form that skill no longer mattered.

And there's the Goku&Piccolo VS Raditz fight. They were much weaker, but they eventually won. Raditz made many mistakes, not the least of which was thinking Goku was incapacitated and letting his guard down, allowing himself to be grabbed from behind.

But yeah, I agree about the whole power levels thing. There was too much of the 'my ki is bigger than your ki' stuff.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 4:03 pm

True. That always struck me as odd. "I can hold off your biggest energy attacks with hurting myself in the slightest, but I'm vunerable to a full nelson hold"? Odd.

Alias · Post by **Alias** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 4:14 pm

Lessee.... What was Raditz's direct quote?

I think it was something along the lines of: "That brat's attack has weakened me!"

Interesting that one knock in the chest weakened him that much, when we later see Vegeta fight Kid Buu and take blow after blow from a much stronger opponent and still keep getting back up on his feet. Maybe Raditz had really low constitution? Maybe he had a weak heart? Maybe...

Don't you just hate it when the series makes you have to think up your own explanations?

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 4:50 pm

Ya but gosh darn! Vegita's a tough curmudgeon! I think he's made of the same "stout stuff" that Aragorn says Hobbits are made of.

Alias · Post by **Alias** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:17 pm

Nah, I'd say Vegeta's even tougher. Even Hobbits don't keep talking after having their hearts turned to burnt mush.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 7:49 pm

There's the Piccolo VS Freeza fight. Piccolo was weaker than Freeza's second form, but was much more skilled and knew more techniques.

Was this anime filler? They both had PLs of 1 million at that point.

Freeza (right after transforming, according to the manga): "I just thought you'd all like to know: in this form my power level is 1,000,000!"

Piccolo (according to the daizenshuu's bio of him): "At the moment of his battle with Freeza, Piccolo's power level attained 1,000,000."

But after the Freeza/Trunks arc, no one uses Scouters, so powerlevels are never mentioned. Correct? I know EX gets annoyed with them, does anyone else?

I actually like strength guides, but not PL listings when most are made up. I loved cataloguing the punch machine points in my strength guide, calculating ppl's PLs (ex: Drum = between 180 and 260; Freeza form 3 = 3 mil), and recording+calculating Kili ratings (Yakon = 800; SSJ2 Goku = 3,000; SSJ2 Majin Vegeta= 3,000). Other than that I just took direct quotes (#16 = As strong as Imperfect Cell when they fought).

Yay me for job well done!

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:26 pm

The punch machine points aren't any measure of strength though, since everyone was trying to hit them really weakly. If anything, it was a measure of how well they could resist the urge to punch the machine really hard (which Vegeta obviously failed at).

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 11:25 pm

Well, I don't think Vegita was bothering to try. One thing ya gotta love about Vegita, he cuts to the chase!

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 11:41 pm

Yeah, you say the way Vegeta just casually walked up and smacked it.

Is there any place where you can get the numbers of everyone's punch scores?

Alias · Post by **Alias** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:00 am

Dayspring wrote:
There's the Piccolo VS Freeza fight. Piccolo was weaker than Freeza's second form, but was much more skilled and knew more techniques.
Was this anime filler? They both had PLs of 1 million at that point.

Freeza (right after transforming, according to the manga): "I just thought you'd all like to know: in this form my power level is 1,000,000!"

Piccolo (according to the daizenshuu's bio of him): "At the moment of his battle with Freeza, Piccolo's power level attained 1,000,000."\

I'm pretty sure it wasn't filler, but my memories are foggy so I'm not positive. I think that there's some mention in the manga that Piccolo was physically weaker. I'll check in the morning when I'm more awake. G'night...

zzz

Sun_Wukong · Post by **Sun_Wukong** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 9:11 pm

Here's something that always bugged me. Goku pretty much was at the same level as he was at the end of DB. Piccolo may have increased some, but not much. Was Radditz as strong as Goku after King Kai's training? They dont really say how strong Radditz is except Vegeta saying he was nothing compared to him and Nappa.

SonGohan-san · Post by **SonGohan-san** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 9:16 pm

As much as I like Radditz, they make him a total weakling (I'd like to think he had potential, had he lived). Anyways, Vegita or Nappa compare his strength to that of a Saibaman. So he was between 1200 and 1600.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 9:33 pm

Radditz is said in the manga to have a PL of 1,200 exactly.
Nappa (after tenshinhan kills his saibaman): "That Saibaman had a PL of 1,200! The same as Radditz!"

The daizenshuu FUBARs it and gives him two ratings: 1,200 AND 1,500. This is probably a mistake on the daizenshuu's fault.

Nappa had a PL of 4,000 at rest (daizenshuu) and "in the 4,000s" at max (either 4,001-4,099 or 4,001-4,999).

Vegeta had a PL of of 16,000-18,000 at rest (stronger than kaioken x2 Goku which equals 16,000) and 18,000 at max (daizenshuu).

Added tidbits because I'm a PL nut:
Goku at rest was 5,000.
Goku at max was 8,000.
Kaioken x2 Goku was at 16,000.
Kaioken x3 Goku was at 24,000.
Kaioken x4 Goku was at 32,000.
Kaioken x5 Goku was at 40,000.

Kanzenshuu

Powerlevels?

Powerlevels?

Who is online