Gogeta and Vegetto child

[shonenhikada]

So we know Goten, and trunks were extremely strong, and in some way can consider to inherit there father's strength when born similar to perfect cell, and his cell jrs. Now say gogeta/vegetto had sex with both Chi Chi, and Bulma, and created two offspring. One of which would live with son goku, and the other with Vegeta.

1. How strong do you think the little ticks would be ?

2. If vegeta, and goku trained them up to be fighters rather than slack off like trunks and goten. How strong you think they'll be as adults/late teens.

3. Why wasn't this implemented to ensure that strong fighters could exist to save the planet for future threats in the manga ?

4. Would Gotenks be considered the brother of these two children ?

5. If gogeta's son fused, then fused with gotenks how strong would they be, and is it even possible to fuse a second time ?

[Fox666]

4. Would Gotenks be considered the brother of these two children ?

I guess that would be the case? But with Trunks and Goten they would be only 3/4 brothers.

[soulnova]

1. How strong do you think the little ticks would be ?
Incredibly strong. The base parent power level seem to somewhat affect the child's initial boost.

2. If vegeta, and goku trained them up to be fighters rather than slack off like trunks and goten. How strong you think they'll be as adults/late teens.
They would still be half-saiyans so the potential is quite good. Early SSj form and maybe getting to Goku/Vegeta level on their teens after non-stop training. But if they didn't inherit the Saiyan's love of fighting, I really doubt they would be passionate enough to keep training once they get to their adulthood.


3. Why wasn't this implemented to ensure that strong fighters could exist to save the planet for future threats in the manga ?
Are you kidding? Bulma and Chichi would have killed them. 9_9 They will not be poping babies just because the Saiyans want more warriors. We can tell Gohan was planned. Trunks seems like someone forgot to take a pill 9_9. I bet Goten was a surprise, and who really knows if Bra was planned too? Bulma was in her mid 40s when she had her... that's pushing her luck a lot.

I actually believe it would be more likely that Bulma would have laughed her ass off when approached with the idea and then just built a tank like Cell's.


4. Would Gotenks be considered the brother of these two children ?
Seeing how Trunks and Goten treat each other it might actually not matter at all, they already feel like a family. In any case Vegeto and Gogeta should be considered Vegeta's and Goku's sons. Hehehe.

5. If Gogeta's son fused, then fused with gotenks how strong would they be, and is it even possible to fuse a second time ?
I don't think it would be possible to do a double fusion.

[Monkey D Goku]

3. Why wasn't this implemented to ensure that strong fighters could exist to save the planet for future threats in the manga ?

I imagine the blood line would still eventually wear away each generation. Although I suppose if Gogeta or Vegito went around into the populace populating the earth with Saiyan Hybrids there Saiyan powers would still continue to exist.

[Bussani]

I imagine the blood line would still eventually wear away each generation. Although I suppose if Gogeta or Vegito went around into the populace populating the earth with Saiyan Hybrids there Saiyan powers would still continue to exist.

Well, you'd have an initially large number of hybrids, but they'd all have the same father. You can't go anywhere but down from there.

[Fox666]

I imagine the blood line would still eventually wear away each generation. Although I suppose if Gogeta or Vegito went around into the populace populating the earth with Saiyan Hybrids there Saiyan powers would still continue to exist.

If these genes all come from a single person, wouldn't the ancestors be very ill due to inbreeding?

[mysticboy]

Not if Vegetto/Gogeta find other planets with human-ish people capable of giving birth to Saiyans. That way, the chances of inbreeding decrease drastically.

[Bussani]

How would that help? Then you'd have multiple planets with a bunch of offspring related to the same guy.

[Saiga]

I forget the math behind it, but you'd need 3 unrelated Saiyans to spread the population through the humans. If only Nappa hadn't been killed...

[mysticboy]

How would that help? Then you'd have multiple planets with a bunch of offspring related to the same guy.

Won't be a problem if he leaves just one offspring per planet.

I forget the math behind it, but you'd need 3 unrelated Saiyans to spread the population through the humans. If only Nappa hadn't been killed...

Tarble?
EDIT: Never mind . I had to re-read your post, you said unrelated. But why three?

[Saiga]

I forget the math behind it, but you'd need 3 unrelated Saiyans to spread the population through the humans. If only Nappa hadn't been killed...

Tarble?
EDIT: Never mind . I had to re-read your post, you said unrelated. But why three?

I once read an essay on how a minimum of 3 males would be needed to repopulate the human race (with the assistance of SCIENCE!) while maintaining the necessary amount of genetic diversity to survive. I can't remember what the minimum number of females was, but it doesn't matter in this situation when they can breed with human females.

[Fox666]

How would that help? Then you'd have multiple planets with a bunch of offspring related to the same guy.

Won't be a problem if he leaves just one offspring per planet.

The question was that Vegetto/Gogeta genes would soon dissipate through generations, so that really doesn't help anywhere.

[Bussani]

Won't be a problem if he leaves just one offspring per planet.

I thought the idea was for the Saiyan hybrid power to keep existing for more than one generation. If you just want one generation of super strong hybrids, then inbreeding isn't necessary.

I once read an essay on how a minimum of 3 males would be needed to repopulate the human race (with the assistance of SCIENCE!) while maintaining the necessary amount of genetic diversity to survive. I can't remember what the minimum number of females was, but it doesn't matter in this situation when they can breed with human females.

That seems much too low to repopulate the human race to me, but maybe that's where the "SCIENCE!" comes in? Even so, you're still talking about making a race of hybrids out of the same limited number of genes from the same three Saiyans.

[Saiga]

That seems much too low to repopulate the human race to me, but maybe that's where the "SCIENCE!" comes in? Even so, you're still talking about making a race of hybrids out of the same limited number of genes from the same three Saiyans.

Yeah, it'd be tricky. The Saiyans would have to father a lot of children, and then those children would only be able to breed with the non-related half-Saiyans or the Saiyan part would eventually become too diluted.

But if it's feasible for humans, it should be feasible for Saiyans who retain their prime for longer.

[Bussani]

Yeah, it'd be tricky. The Saiyans would have to father a lot of children, and then those children would only be able to breed with the non-related half-Saiyans or the Saiyan part would eventually become too diluted.

But how long would it be before they were all related? A Vegeta offspring could mate with a Goku offspring just fine, but who, then, would the Vegeta-Goku hybrid mate with? A Goku-Nappa hybrid?

But if it's feasible for humans, it should be feasible for Saiyans who retain their prime for longer.

I still don't understand how it would be feasible for humans. You don't remember where you read about this, do you?

[Saiga]

But how long would it be before they were all related? A Vegeta offspring could mate with a Goku offspring just fine, but who, then, would the Vegeta-Goku hybrid mate with? A Goku-Nappa hybrid?

I think the idea is that you eventually get to the stage where you don't have to worry about that... but I'm not sure how you actually do that. Incest may be required but at some point, doesn't the risk of deformity become less severe as the degree of relation reduces? As in there's less risk between second cousins mating than first cousins? I think second cousins mating has a fairly small risk of deformities arising, and is permitted in most parts of the world (if frowned upon). Maybe the Vegeta-Goku hybrid could mate with a Nappa offspring? It'd depend on the age gaps, but if you could breed like that, you would at least be able to avoid first cousin incest.

I still don't understand how it would be feasible for humans. You don't remember where you read about this, do you?

I do, it's just no longer accessible for me to check what the hell I'm talking about. It was on a Troper Tales section on TV Tropes (bizarre place for that kind of thing, but then) and all Troper Tales pages got cut for the unsavory content on the majority of them.

So, should probably make this clear, it isn't something from an official scientific study or anything like that. But it was well written and seemed fairly well thought out so I trusted it. The math made sense while I was reading it, I just can't figure out how it was supposed to work. Now I'm starting to believe it's not possible, unless I'm forgetting something crucial from the original essay.

[Bussani]

I think the idea is that you eventually get to the stage where you don't have to worry about that... but I'm not sure how you actually do that. Incest may be required but at some point, doesn't the risk of deformity become less severe as the degree of relation reduces? As in there's less risk between second cousins mating than first cousins? I think second cousins mating has a fairly small risk of deformities arising, and is permitted in most parts of the world (if frowned upon). Maybe the Vegeta-Goku hybrid could mate with a Nappa offspring? It'd depend on the age gaps, but if you could breed like that, you would at least be able to avoid first cousin incest.

Under normal circumstances, yes, the risk goes down when you start getting to second cousins and so on. But that's with a large gene pool; in this particular case, you're purposely trying to make sure everyone has at least half Saiyan genes, and those genes all come from the same three people. No matter how you organize it, it's still going to come down to people who are half Goku-Vegeta-Nappa breeding with people who are half Goku-Vegeta-Nappa at some point. That much is unavoidable. Maybe it could work without problems--particularly if we assume that Goku, Vegeta, and Nappa don't have any harmful recessive genes--but it's still a frighteningly small pool of genes you're trying to work with.

So, should probably make this clear, it isn't something from an official scientific study or anything like that. But it was well written and seemed fairly well thought out so I trusted it. The math made sense while I was reading it, I just can't figure out how it was supposed to work. Now I'm starting to believe it's not possible, unless I'm forgetting something crucial from the original essay.

I think it may be technically possible, so long as you have plenty of women. The problem is more with the lack of diversity than anything. Heck, the cheetah population was supposedly reduced to a ridiculously small number at one point, resulting in the fact that all cheetahs today are almost genetically identical. They're very lucky to still be around, and it's very possible a disease they have no resistance to could come along and wipe them all out in one go. But they're still here for the moment, so...maybe...?

[soulnova]

Alright guys. This is the way I'd put it. There's a more of a accepted theory that you would need at least 2,000 breeding pairs to repopulate without getting an inbreeding problem down the road. It seems that's what happened to us in real life. We were almost at the brink of extinction about 70-80,000 years ago and it shows in our genes that the genetic variation got shot in the head. Even if Vegetto and Gogeta got around having children, unless those children marry each other, the Saiyan blood will eventually disappear either way.

Now, there was another thread were I mentioned this, but anyway. It shouldn't really matter how "diluted" your blood is. As long as you inherit the "Super Strength/SSj gene trait" from a parent you should be able the get at least some kind of power boost compared to pure humans.



Easiest way would be to simply clone Goku and Vegeta every 100 years or so. If Enma is fine with it, maybe he would let them reincarnate, otherwise that would certainly be a head-ache to sort them out in the Otherworld.

[Goten]

So we know Goten, and trunks were extremely strong, and in some way can consider to inherit there father's strength when born similar to perfect cell, and his cell jrs. Now say gogeta/vegetto had sex with both Chi Chi, and Bulma, and created two offspring. One of which would live with son goku, and the other with Vegeta.

1. How strong do you think the little ticks would be ?

2. If vegeta, and goku trained them up to be fighters rather than slack off like trunks and goten. How strong you think they'll be as adults/late teens.

3. Why wasn't this implemented to ensure that strong fighters could exist to save the planet for future threats in the manga ?

4. Would Gotenks be considered the brother of these two children ?

5. If gogeta's son fused, then fused with gotenks how strong would they be, and is it even possible to fuse a second time ?

There powers werent simillar to Perfect Cell. Maybe the Cell Jr. But not Cell.

[Bussani]

Now, there was another thread were I mentioned this, but anyway. It shouldn't really matter how "diluted" your blood is. As long as you inherit the "Super Strength/SSj gene trait" from a parent you should be able the get at least some kind of power boost compared to pure humans.

That's pretty much true, but realistically, traits like super strength and Super Saiyan would probably be controlled by a bunch of genes, and then the diluted blood really can become a problem. It would take more and more luck the more generations you go, but as you say, it's technically possible.