Super DBZ For Noobs?

[dbboxkaifan]

Okay, the last time I tried to play Super DBZ I sucked at it, I barely could do anything and that alone made me hate the game, sadly, so is there a way of learning how to play?

I feel this game deserved to be released during a different era, because as it seems it's detested due to its gameplay or whatnot by Budokai Tenkaichi fans and possibly some Budokai too.

[Hitiro]

Okay, the last time I tried to play Super DBZ I sucked at it, I barely could do anything and that alone made me hate the game, sadly, so is there a way of learning how to play?

I feel this game deserved to be released during a different era, because as it seems it's detested due to its gameplay or whatnot by Budokai Tenkaichi fans and possibly some Budokai too.

I don't see why Budokai fans are hating on the game. In the spirit of things Super DBZ is closest to the Budokai games. And unless Tenkaichi fans don't like proper fighters I don't see why they shouldn't like it either. But then again there are quite a few Tenkaichi fans that only care about "fan service", such as things like "I want more characters" or "I want it to be more like the show." It's one of my only gripes with the Tenkaichi fans because fan service does not make a good game. They are always arguing that their games are better because they have X amount of characters more than another game but that shouldn't matter.

In fact, a good fighting game would do well to have fewer characters to make it easier on balancing. I personally like both Budokai and Tenkaichi Budokai but I can see that they both do things wrong in certain regards, I don't come out guns blazing saying either game doesn't have a fault because it has one or more good traits. However, if I see one of the games being discussed and it is clear that they have the wrong image of the games I will voice my opinion. A lot of people have been talking about the Budokai games because of the information about the HD Collection and have mentioned a few things I've disagreed with. Such as, its depth. It might be silly but I feel I must explain about the game so people better understand that the Budokai games have quite a bit of depth to them that most people disregard. Of course at the end of the day some people will be of a certain opinion that you can't budge them on, which is fair enough, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Unfortunately I have not had the privilege to play Super DBZ, which is unfortunate as it seems to be a strong fighting game that I would like to try out. In the essence of its gameplay it is similar to, perhaps, Street Fighter. Am I correct in this assumption or not? If not please tell me a bit more about the game so I can have a better understanding of it. I've only seen a few videos of people playing it. For learning how to play the game though I would suggest you try out http://www.youtube.com/user/UltraChenTV both Ultra David and James Chen do shows to help you familiarise yourself with fighting games in general and provide you with methods on improving your game. Such as, not too long ago, James Chen went into attack vectors(something he coined himself I believe) in which he talks about the different directions and distances of attack used to control a particular space. It is a very interesting topic which helps you to understand a characters strengths and weaknesses in controlling certain area's on the screen to force your opponent into doing something you can react to. It helped me greatly understand the attack strengths and weaknesses of characters in Budokai 3 and Infinite World which has led me to playing on a much better level now that I can understand the different elements each character posses.

[Bluebolt]

Yes SDBZ is often regarded as 'Street Fighter' in 3D. Makes me wonder what it would be like in this era. It was good but not great. Needs to be 'smoother' in the movement department, it often looks 'blocky' or perhaps it's because I'm looking at it on Youtube.

@Hitiro: Did you mean they cover SDBZ or FGs in general? I can't find SDBZ vids on their channel.

I remember SDBZ was even on Evo at one point, that's pretty good I' say. Remember Krillin was used a lot.

[Hitiro]

Yes SDBZ is often regarded as 'Street Fighter' in 3D. Makes me wonder what it would be like in this era. It was good but not great. Needs to be 'smoother' in the movement department, it often looks 'blocky' or perhaps it's because I'm looking at it on Youtube.

@Hitiro: Did you mean they cover SDBZ or FGs in general? I can't find SDBZ vids on their channel.

I remember SDBZ was even on Evo at one point, that's pretty good I' say. Remember Krillin was used a lot.

I meant they cover fighting games in general. They explain how to get used to certain things in any fighting game such as the attack vectors I mentioned. As well as finding out combos, approach options, general mechanics in fighting games such as cancels, how to practice with your character and they go through analysis of matches in the well known games like Street Fighter, Tekken or King of Fighters but they will always give you information as to what you should be analysing and how to notice certain things that may be applied in match analysis of other games.

[Rory]

I barely could do anything and that alone made me hate the game,

That is your problem, though you likely already know that. Not all games are gonna be largely accessible to all players, some are more technical than others, some almost require you to have played other games. That's no reason to hate them, it is either something that wasn't for you, or something you might want to dedicate a little more time to (if you didn't like Super Dragon Ball Z for this reason, I have to ask if you'd ever played any other traditional fighters before this).

I feel this game deserved to be released during a different era, because as it seems it's detested due to its gameplay or whatnot by Budokai Tenkaichi fans and possibly some Budokai too.

There are more than enough Dragon Ball games with the Street Fighter era gameplay released far before Super Dragon Ball Z. A lot of people disliked Super Dragon Ball Z not because of it's gameplay, but because it simply didn't have the flashy visuals of the other two 'main' series of games. Sure, some people were a little put off by the pacing of the gameplay, and had trouble button inputs, but I think a lot of fans came to the series looking for beam struggles, big climatic super moves, and huge transformations. Super Dragon Ball Z had these, though they weren't thrown in your face, they (much like the colour palette of the game itself) was more subdued than the other games, it took a back-seat to the gameplay.

so is there a way of learning how to play?.

Practise.

[Saiga]

Not all games are gonna be largely accessible to all players, some are more technical than others, some almost require you to have played other games. That's no reason to hate them, it is either something that wasn't for you, or something you might want to dedicate a little more time to (if you didn't like Super Dragon Ball Z for this reason, I have to ask if you'd ever played any other traditional fighters before this).

I think that's a pretty good reason to hate/dislike the game, actually. Not being able to play the game without first playing games from a completely unrelated series sounds like a valid complaint.

[Rory]

Not being able to play the game without first playing games from a completely unrelated series sounds like a valid complaint.

Ugh, King of Fighters is so inaccessible, I hate those games, jesus.
So what if it plays like Street Fighter? You don't need to play those games to be able to compete, all games have some kind of learning curve, some deeper than others. Angry Birds has a process of learning how to play the game. Kinda' like Dark Souls, players disliking the game should have nothing to do with them being unable to get past the Taurus Demon (the Capra Demon however, can go straight to hell).
Not being able to play the game at first or not being given an instant reward is definitely a reason people have for not liking certain games, but I do question to validity of it.

[Saiga]

Not being able to play the game without first playing games from a completely unrelated series sounds like a valid complaint.

Ugh, King of Fighters is so inaccessible, I hate those games, jesus.
So what if it plays like Street Fighter? You don't need to play those games to be able to compete, all games have some kind of learning curve, some deeper than others. Angry Birds has a process of learning how to play the game. Kinda' like Dark Souls, players disliking the game should have nothing to do with them being unable to get past the Taurus Demon (the Capra Demon however, can go straight to hell).
Not being able to play the game at first or being given an instant reward is definitely a reason people use for not liking certain games, but I do question to validity of it.

That's not what I said. I'm fine with games having their own learning curve, but not if the game doesn't even attempt to bring people into it who are unfamiliar with the territory.

Angry Birds is a terrible example due to being far more simple than Super Dragon Ball Z. Can't speak for Dark Souls as I have not played it.

[VegettoEX]

Minecraft has little precedent for gameplay/genre before it (OK, I guess Dwarf Fortress...?), makes absolutely no attempt to guide you or inform you of its world and mechanics, and has gone on to be a global success story beyond all calculations.

Checkmate.

Conclusion? Super Dragon Ball Z is awesome, and if you don't like it, you can't be my friend.

[dbboxkaifan]

I'll be checking those videos for practice, thanks!

Super DBZ looks to be the kind of Dragon Ball Z fighter aside from Budokai that I've wanted all along but the problem is that I haven't been able to play it properly.

[Rory]

Angry Birds is a terrible example due to being far more simple than Super Dragon Ball Z. Can't speak for Dark Souls as I have not played it.

Yes, I was comparing who the two games have a massive distance in terms of their learning curve. You can potentially be quite good at Angry Birds within minutes, whereas Dark Souls will usually take a long time before you stop dying.
Not all games need to explain everything that's going on, sometimes it's more fun to figure it out for yourself, instead of having the gameplay spoon-fed to you.

[Saiga]

Minecraft has little precedent for gameplay/genre before it (OK, I guess Dwarf Fortress...?), makes absolutely no attempt to guide you or inform you of its world and mechanics, and has gone on to be a global success story beyond all calculations.

Checkmate.

Conclusion? Super Dragon Ball Z is awesome, and if you don't like it, you can't be my friend.

I know you're being tongue-in-cheek here, but Minecraft is a sandbox game focused on exploration and creativity.

Having no games before it that needed to be played to understand it means that all players getting into Minecraft are going to be "fresh" with it (having not played a similar game to learn beforehand). My complaint about SDBZ is that it alienate's these "fresh" players who shouldn't need to go play older fighters in unrelated series to understand.

Also popularity isn't the be-all end-all or SDBZ's relative lack of popularity would have already cemented it as garbage.

Yes, I was comparing who the two games have a massive distance in terms of their learning curve. You can potentially be quite good at Angry Birds within minutes, whereas Dark Souls will usually take a long time before you stop dying.
Not all games need to explain everything that's going on, sometimes it's more fun to figure it out for yourself, instead of having the gameplay spoon-fed to you.

I agree that not all games need to explain things. I just think SDBZ isn't one of those.

[Hitiro]

I agree that not all games need to explain things. I just think SDBZ isn't one of those.

We've become to reliant on games explaining things to be honest. If you go back to games like Street Fighter 2 I think that game didn't even have a tutorial, did it?

[Super Saiyajin Luffy]

I agree that not all games need to explain things. I just think SDBZ isn't one of those.

We've become to reliant on games explaining things to be honest. If you go back to games like Street Fighter 2 I think that game didn't even have a tutorial, did it?

This might be actually true, videogames tend to explain us everything, especially adventure/platformes/whatever games. This video might be a hit to the spot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM
But regarding fighting games, I think explaining things might be essential nowadays, even if they aren't doing a fabalous job in it.

[Hitiro]

I agree that not all games need to explain things. I just think SDBZ isn't one of those.

We've become to reliant on games explaining things to be honest. If you go back to games like Street Fighter 2 I think that game didn't even have a tutorial, did it?

This might be actually true, videogames tend to explain us everything, especially adventure/platformes/whatever games. This video might be a hit to the spot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM
But regarding fighting games, I think explaining things might be essential nowadays, even if they aren't doing a fabalous job in it.

That video is actually what I was thinking about when I posted, but why should fighting games be explained to us. Fighting games have evolved to the point that there is a whole sport centred around them where top players come to win tournaments, part of what makes fighting games such an amazing spectacle in a competitive environment is the unpredictability of how a match may go down. A prime example is when Daigo parried Justin in SF 3rd Strike, everyone thought Justin had won when he pulled out his super. Daigo's character had no health left and the chip from the super would have been enough to finish him, I may be wrong but at the time nobody probably thought the parrying of the full Chun Li super combo would be possible but he pulled it off and won the match. Watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np_5BHmaSI4 and you'll see the crowd goes nuts. Elements of mystery within a game are great because people will explore whether it is possible or not, much like life, and that always provides entertainment when you find out its possible. Why should we be given everything on a silver platter rather than earn it through experimentation much like in the Megaman video you linked.

[Rukura]

Super DBZ was the second Dragon Ball game I ever played (first being Final Bout). I hated it. I was both not really into fighting games (yet) and was expecting something like the Sparking games at the time.

A while later, when I was more open to various kinds of games, I went through the trouble of at least trying to learn the motions and spend some time in Training Mode. Then, I started to enjoy it a lot

[Super Saiyajin Luffy]

This might be actually true, videogames tend to explain us everything, especially adventure/platformes/whatever games. This video might be a hit to the spot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM
But regarding fighting games, I think explaining things might be essential nowadays, even if they aren't doing a fabalous job in it.

That video is actually what I was thinking about when I posted, but why should fighting games be explained to us. Fighting games have evolved to the point that there is a whole sport centred around them where top players come to win tournaments, part of what makes fighting games such an amazing spectacle in a competitive environment is the unpredictability of how a match may go down. A prime example is when Daigo parried Justin in SF 3rd Strike, everyone thought Justin had won when he pulled out his super. Daigo's character had no health left and the chip from the super would have been enough to finish him, I may be wrong but at the time nobody probably thought the parrying of the full Chun Li super combo would be possible but he pulled it off and won the match. Watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np_5BHmaSI4 and you'll see the crowd goes nuts. Elements of mystery within a game are great because people will explore whether it is possible or not, much like life, and that always provides entertainment when you find out its possible. Why should we be given everything on a silver platter rather than earn it through experimentation much like in the Megaman video you linked.

A Tutorial for basics won't hurt though. Shenanigans on the other part will be discovered by gamers as long the game lives. I think Duodecim Dissidia gave me a proper job in teaching the game basics, but the advanced stuffs aka combos ect came all from playing. After this I informed myself bout some other hidden techs and shenanigans...

[TheNamekGio]

Chances are if you get your asses handed to you on Street Fighter Series or The Marvel Vs Capcom series, then you'll hate SDBZ. It takes skill and practice to pull off combos. Something the budokai series lacks. Then again I'm 80's baby so I've always favored 2D fighters.

[goku the krump dancer]

Well like Rory said most of the Super DBZ hate came from the fact that it wasnt as flashy as the Budokai games or the Tenkaichi. Both of those game were easy to play and somewhat challenging to master and had that DBZness that kinda made you feel like you were playing the show. The budokai series had the Ultimates and even though the Dragon Rush was repetitive it also felt like something you would see in the anime not to mention the stage bumps. The Tenkaichi games had that big open areas, in game battle damage and even had moves that were never in the games before that seemed to be literally ripped right from the anime witch was also cool.

Super DBZ not only came out of nowhere but also brought about a new look and new levels of depth with the game play. It wasnt just about you playing the game in hopes of imitating what you saw on t.v it was really about how creative you could be with the combos and if you had what it takes to explore the level of depth that it had. It also wanted to bring back a familiar feeling for those who have played the Street Fighter games back in the arcade days. I mean correct me if I'm wrong but SF was pretty much dead 7 or 8 years ago.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Minecraft has little precedent for gameplay/genre before it (OK, I guess Dwarf Fortress...?), makes absolutely no attempt to guide you or inform you of its world and mechanics, and has gone on to be a global success story beyond all calculations.

Checkmate.

Conclusion? Super Dragon Ball Z is awesome, and if you don't like it, you can't be my friend.

Best post of the day!

...granted I wasn't on here much today but still...