Was Kid Boo holding back against Goku?

[dbzfan7]

What do you think. I made this to move the Boo debate in the Kaioshin/Piccolo thread here so this topic won't flood it.

[Gyt Kaliba]

I would say 'definitely not', in my case. I never got the feeling that Kid Boo knew the meaning of holding back, much less the meaning of anything else. I'm not even sure he was really that 'sentient' at all in that form, he came across to me to be destructive instinct incarnated into a body.

[TheMightyOzaru]

<Link to scanslations reading site removed by moderator>

Goku says Buu was toying with them. He even claims he overdid it and says he would be no problem if we had used the Potara implying that Buu is superior right there. Goku says he would be able to defeat him if he could charge his Ki for a full minute yes but then he also is going off what he is senseing right there. Kid Buu could very well be restraining some Ki for the purpose of having fun just like Cell did against every Z-fighter he fought. Then there is the Kaioshin negativity argument which puts Kid Buu above Super Buu but thats a long argument that is really just unecessary for the point that I'm trying to get across.

[dbzfan7]

<Link to scanslations reading site removed by moderator>

Goku says Buu was toying with them. He even claims he overdid it and says he would be no problem if we had used the Potara implying that Buu is superior right there. Goku says he would be able to defeat him if he could charge his Ki for a full minute yes but then he also is going off what he is senseing right there. Kid Buu could very well be restraining some Ki for the purpose of having fun just like Cell did against every Z-fighter he fought. Then there is the Kaioshin negativity argument which puts Kid Buu above Super Buu but thats a long argument that is really just unecessary for the point that I'm trying to get across.

Fan translated. Also I don't think those pages are allowed here. VegettoEX closed my image from a site like that a while ago.

[Gyt Kaliba]

He may have been toying with them, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was holding back, per say. His toying could have been that he wasn't putting his all into the attacks, but he may not have been holding back either. ...If that makes any sense.

I know what I'm trying to say here, but I feel like it's not coming out quite right...

[dbzfan7]

He may have been toying with them, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was holding back, per say. His toying could have been that he wasn't putting his all into the attacks, but he may not have been holding back either. ...If that makes any sense.

I know what I'm trying to say here, but I feel like it's not coming out quite right...

I see what your saying. I don't see him holding back because he didn't bother on Vegeta or Fat Boo, and Goku was even with him the whole time. Besides the point where Goku's stamina dropped, there was no instance of Boo controlling the fight, It's also not stated he is holding back. Kid Boo started playing around in that page because Goku was worn out and Boo knew that and felt victory was assured. I still say the Candy beam is not a move used when playing around. If he is playing around, there is no way it is considered impulse. He was also playing around because nothing Goku can do can diminish his stamina or kill him. Goku was not even using full power against Kid Boo. He even said he would be able to defeat him if he went all out and charged one attack. When your Kid Boo you can go all out and even after destruction return fresh. I don't see why he wouldn't play around when he believes himself invincible and nothing can physically defeat him. Why would he beat Fat Boo and Vegeta up but not Goku if he was so much stronger. If Kid Boo was significantly stronger he would have beat up Goku like the rest, he doesn't care about a good fight.

[Kaboom]

Pure Boo did start messing around with Goku after a little while... but not because he had some secret never-seen overwhelming advantage in power that totally exists but we never saw it. He only started messing around because he could keep coming back from attacks and never lost energy, but realized that Goku was hemorrhaging energy like a busted dam. In fact, the little bastard must have been a lot smarter than he looked if he figured out that the key to his survival and victory was to stall so that Goku's power would drain away.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Definitely not. Heck, he tried to turn him into chocolate at one point! That's not what someone holding back on you in a fight does. The reason Gokuu said that Boo was toying with him is because Boo, unlike Gokuu, seemed to be enjoying the fight, or at least, moreso than Gokuu ever was. This is because he was never in danger due to his regeneration, while Gokuu was rapidly losing energy.

[TheMightyOzaru]

<Link to scanslations reading site removed by moderator>

Goku says Buu was toying with them. He even claims he overdid it and says he would be no problem if we had used the Potara implying that Buu is superior right there. Goku says he would be able to defeat him if he could charge his Ki for a full minute yes but then he also is going off what he is senseing right there. Kid Buu could very well be restraining some Ki for the purpose of having fun just like Cell did against every Z-fighter he fought. Then there is the Kaioshin negativity argument which puts Kid Buu above Super Buu but thats a long argument that is really just unecessary for the point that I'm trying to get across.

Fan translated. Also I don't think those pages are allowed here. VegettoEX closed my image from a site like that a while ago.

Its basically the same in the Japanese manga. Unless you have evidence that suggest otherwise.

[dbzfan7]

<Link to scanslations reading site removed by moderator>

Goku says Buu was toying with them. He even claims he overdid it and says he would be no problem if we had used the Potara implying that Buu is superior right there. Goku says he would be able to defeat him if he could charge his Ki for a full minute yes but then he also is going off what he is senseing right there. Kid Buu could very well be restraining some Ki for the purpose of having fun just like Cell did against every Z-fighter he fought. Then there is the Kaioshin negativity argument which puts Kid Buu above Super Buu but thats a long argument that is really just unecessary for the point that I'm trying to get across.

Fan translated. Also I don't think those pages are allowed here. VegettoEX closed my image from a site like that a while ago.

Its basically the same in the Japanese manga. Unless you have evidence that suggest otherwise.

In my next post I realized that. Though I still douhgt he was holding back against Goku if he wouldn't for anyone else. I wouldn't say basically the same, ask herms to confirm that. VegettoEX did say not to post pages like that here so your stuck with searching through herms guide like the rest of us. I'm surprised he even translated all that. He did the community a huge favor.

[TheMightyOzaru]

K.

[Ketchup_Revenge]

I have a feeling he wasn't challenged by Goku to the point that he needed to exert himself, but to go as far as to say that he was holding back I think is pushing it. In other words, he didn't really seem to see Goku as that high of a threat, so he just simply didn't take Goku too seriously.

I just think it seems like Boo was holding back simply because of his over-all demeanor and it seems that the length of fighting has no effect on his stamina. The properties of Boo's body are weird, we already know this from Vegito's split after entering it. He seems to not have the same weaknesses and lags that Saiyan or human bodies do, but on the other hand, he also has weaknesses that they don't.

[dprez]

Pure Boo did start messing around with Goku after a little while... but not because he had some secret never-seen overwhelming advantage in power that totally exists but we never saw it. He only started messing around because he could keep coming back from attacks and never lost energy, but realized that Goku was hemorrhaging energy like a busted dam. In fact, the little bastard must have been a lot smarter than he looked if he figured out that the key to his survival and victory was to stall so that Goku's power would drain away.

I like this. Boo and Goku at this point are at least dead even. Goku is human, while Boo is a demonic immortal freak of nature.

Level 3 Super Saiyan Son Goku proved initially, and due to later statements, that he was strong enough to defeat the little pink demon. He was just unaware that his new form would have such a drastic drain on his energy compared to what it did in the other world.

Ssj3 Goku ( Alive, and Initially) > Pure Boo, but only initially. Goku's energy quickly deteriorated as he exchanged blows with Boo.

[dbzfan7]

Pure Boo did start messing around with Goku after a little while... but not because he had some secret never-seen overwhelming advantage in power that totally exists but we never saw it. He only started messing around because he could keep coming back from attacks and never lost energy, but realized that Goku was hemorrhaging energy like a busted dam. In fact, the little bastard must have been a lot smarter than he looked if he figured out that the key to his survival and victory was to stall so that Goku's power would drain away.

I like this. Boo and Goku at this point are at least dead even. Goku is human, while Boo is a demonic immortal freak of nature.

Level 3 Super Saiyan Son Goku proved initially, and due to later statements, that he was strong enough to defeat the little pink demon. He was just unaware that his new form would have such a drastic drain on his energy compared to what it did in the other world.

Ssj3 Goku ( Alive, and Initially) > Pure Boo, but only initially. Goku's energy quickly deteriorated as he exchanged blows with Boo.

That is how I see it. Pure Boo never did any serious damage on Goku, his SSJ3 drain did is what screwed him. If Goku had his dead body he probably would have won.

[InfernalVegito]

In my view yes, he could have done much more if he serious'd up so to speak. He only toyed around and didn't give a fuck. That's my impression.

[mattymoron]

No. I don't think he can really conceptualize the idea of "holding back" insofar as actually lowering or hiding a portion of his true power to deal with lesser opponents. Did he take Goku seriously as a threat? No, probably not, but only because Goku didn't have an overwhelming advantage against him in terms of strength.

[Bussani]

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P13.6-7
Context: after one of Goku’s attacks damages Boo
Goku: “That bastard…Even though he can quickly return to normal, he’s playing around by purposefully drawing it out…”
*Boo is clearly lollygagging*

So like Kaboom said, it's not so much that he's holding back any strength, but he did mess around a bit.

[Nazi Cola]

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P13.6-7
Context: after one of Goku’s attacks damages Boo
Goku: “That bastard…Even though he can quickly return to normal, he’s playing around by purposefully drawing it out…”
*Boo is clearly lollygagging*

So like Kaboom said, it's not so much that he's holding back any strength, but he did mess around a bit.

But yet there are those who say "Herms translated that, it's total BS, Viz all the way!", and persist in saying the Viz translation is right because it's a lot more vague with Kid Boo's strength, at least during this particular statement and Kaioshin's explanation of his origin.

The points I always see from Kid Boo supporters are these:

- Herms is BS. Viz is a lot more accurate.
- Because Viz is more accurate, Goku says Boo was toying with them without being specific of the time, so it's assumed the whole battle.
- Still off the Viz point, there's the whole origin shtick that doesn't mention Boo being weakened through absorption(s), and he gains a soul instead of a heart.
- Because Viz says Boo was calmed down enough to control, and not specifically weakened, this means he wasn't weakened, only his attitude changed.
- Boo never appears to strain himself against Goku, but does against the Genki-Dama. He even pushes it back!
- He's freakin' Kid Boo! Of course he's playing around with everybody, hence the nickname he was given by fans!
- To be more specific on the previous point, he's smiling the entire time.
- He has the advantage over Goku the whole battle.
- Kai energy can't be used to revive Boo, and their magic malfunctions inside him, so it's impossible for South Kaioshin to have strengthened him. He either had no effect or made him weaker (contradictory much?).
- The Daizenshuu entry (Boo's own bio, in fact) that says only South Kaioshin weakened him is crap because it's from a guidebook.
- Goku never said he could beat Kid Boo. He only said he was trying to.
- Vegeta didn't want Gotenks and Gohan being brought to the Kai planet because he knew they were too weak to win.

I think there are a few more points, but yeah, those are all I could think of as I haven't been in one of those debates in a while, fortunately.

[hleV]

TBH, I think Pure Boo doesn't know what's a "hold back".

[smiley]

Was Goku holding back? He says that he "showed off" too much. How are we to interpret this? Does he mean he could have defeated him but because he wanted to "show off", his energy was lost in the meantime?