Uhm.. Am I missing something here? (Drummond VS Sabat)

[songohan619]

Lots of people all over this forum keep complaining about Sabat`s Vegeta not sounding like a real person, and they usually say that Drummond`s Vegeta is much better, but... Does anyone actually think that Drummond`s Vegeta sounds realistic? I mean, when both Sabat and Drummond is acting at their best, I think Sabat is better, but still, people say that they prefer Drummond before Sabat`s Veeta sounds unrealistic. But if they say that, shouldn't the same be said about Drummond`s Vegeta?

[TheBlackPaladin]

I find that criticism a tad odd myself, given that the voices they use for Vegeta strike me as being identical except for pitch (Drummond is higher, Sabat is lower).

As far as sounding "realistic"...that, like every element of a performance, is subjective. I recall that the second voice actress who played Chibiusa/Mini-Moon/Rini in the English dub of "Sailor Moon," Stephanie Beard, caught some flack among some fans who thought that the voice she was using sounded high, fakey, and unrealistic. A rather odd--and kinda funny--criticism considering that the voice she used was her own natural speaking voice. Let's also not forget that, while Masako Nozawa is a great actress, it's not particularly realistic for a grown man to have what is clearly a woman's voice...and yet the people saying that Sabat or Drummond don't sound realistic don't have a problem with "realism" in that performance. Not saying anyone's opinion is wrong, of course, but I've always been a tad bewildered by that double-standard.

The reason I've never had a problem with Drummond or Sabat's performances is because of how gravelly they are. They both sound like they're trying to contain a deeper, more savage nature. It speaks to both Vegeta's warrior heritage as a Saiyan, and as a hint of his more beastly Oozaru form.

[songohan619]

I find that criticism a tad odd myself, given that the voices they use for Vegeta strike me as being identical except for pitch (Drummond is higher, Sabat is lower).

As far as sounding "realistic"...that, like every element of a performance, is subjective. I recall that the second voice actress who played Chibiusa/Mini-Moon/Rini in the English dub of "Sailor Moon," Stephanie Beard, caught some flack among some fans who thought that the voice she was using sounded high, fakey, and unrealistic. A rather odd--and kinda funny--criticism considering that the voice she used was her own natural speaking voice. Let's also not forget that, while Masako Nozawa is a great actress, it's not particularly realistic for a grown man to have what is clearly a woman's voice...and yet the people saying that Sabat or Drummond don't sound realistic don't have a problem with "realism" in that performance. Not saying anyone's opinion is wrong, of course, but I've always been a tad bewildered by that double-standard.

The reason I've never had a problem with Drummond or Sabat's performances is because of how gravelly they are. They both sound like they're trying to contain a deeper, more savage nature. It speaks to both Vegeta's warrior heritage as a Saiyan, and as a hint of his more beastly Oozaru form.

Yeah, I fully agree. I love both Sabat`s and Drummond`s performances!

[linkdude20002001]

I don't exactly like EITHER voice, but I think Drummond has the better fitting voice, and so if he just tweaked his performance a little, it would be the ideal English voice for Vegeta.
Sabat on the other hand is too deep, and the voice gets mixed up with his Piccolo's sometimes (like when laughing).

[Gyt Kaliba]

I don't exactly like EITHER voice, but I think Drummond has the better fitting voice, and so if he just tweaked his performance a little, it would be the ideal English voice for Vegeta.
Sabat on the other hand is too deep, and the voice gets mixed up with his Piccolo's sometimes (like when laughing).

It definitely used to, but I feel he's got them pretty well separated from each other now.

Part of it is I never heard as much Drummond, it was pretty much always Sabat's Vegeta I had as a kid, but Drummond's to me is just...I dunno. It's a little more over the top from what I've heard. More 'Look! Hear how evil I sound, I'm evil, bwahahaha!'

[VegettoEX]

Part of it is I never heard as much Drummond, it was pretty much always Sabat's Vegeta I had as a kid, but Drummond's to me is just...I dunno. It's a little more over the top from what I've heard. More 'Look! Hear how evil I sound, I'm evil, bwahahaha!'

That's pretty much how we all came into hearing Sabat in 1999: "LOOK AT MY EVIL GRUFF VOICE COUGH COUGH".

Crazy. Differences. Opinions. Time frames. Children. Adults. Poop. Stick.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Part of it is I never heard as much Drummond, it was pretty much always Sabat's Vegeta I had as a kid, but Drummond's to me is just...I dunno. It's a little more over the top from what I've heard. More 'Look! Hear how evil I sound, I'm evil, bwahahaha!'

That's pretty much how we all came into hearing Sabat in 1999: "LOOK AT MY EVIL GRUFF VOICE COUGH COUGH".

Crazy. Differences. Opinions. Time frames. Children. Adults. Poop. Stick.

Oh trust me, I can't even begin to try to protect Sabat's um...original..."take"...on...yeeaaahhh. I'd rather just retcon that part out of my memory.

By the time I was watching and actually paying attention, he was already slowly working his way out of that pitiful Drummond impression thankfully.

And come to think of it, it could just be the direction, or the time frame like you said, because I love Drummon's Ryuk in Death Note, and that's pretty much the same voice.

[Fionordequester]

Honestly, this whole discussion reminds me of this trope here...

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... Dissonance

And if there's anything I take out of the real life examples, it's that some people really DO have voices that you would not expect them to have, some of them really WEIRD as seen in the 3rd and 4th videos...

Chyna (Wrestling Diva): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_bSWpuYzfg
Theodore Roosevelt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYn5FJnvrZk
Kevin Grevioux (Raze in the Underworld movies): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc1QvI_llE0
Let's Player Elentor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29cDSMpfotk

So...honestly, I've come to just accept even seemingly unfitting voices from characters as long as their delivery expresses their personality right. Although, on Drummond, I enjoyed his voice WAY more in the Cell and Buu Sagas then I ever did during Episodes 1-63.

[Thanos]

I think Drummond's Vegeta gets kinda shitty when the second Ocean dub (Trunks onwards) begins. He sounds pretty... meh. Uninspired. Especially compared to his original performance. No sinister edge. No snarl. Meh.

[Fionordequester]

Really? You think so? Just rewatch Episode 115, the Secret of Dr. Gero, and just listen to how he threatens 19#!

Vegeta: You're even less than I thought you'd be.

Vegeta: NEVER GIVE UUUUUUUUUUUUP!!!

Vegeta: Well, I guess it's true after all! Androids do experience feeeeeeeaaar!

I'm serious, I was just about ready to declare him an better Vegeta than even Chris Sabat in his run of Season 5...but then there were times where he slipped back into sounding like a cartoon archetype, which was not only something I always found somewhat annoying, but, was actually really out of place considering that the Ocean dub voice cast as a whole started to shift more towards more "normal" voices. It's just funny in that, I'll be watching a Cell Jr. fight, and most of the gang are grunting and fighting, sounding somewhere in the middle of one's vocal range...and then comes Vegeta shrieking in a super high voice, which...while not unrealistically, was sort of a funny contrast...

But, oh well, I did enjoy Drummond's new voice performance much more, outside of a few moments where the lack of voice direction was made all too clear, such as this scene...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwMQQbMTzl0&feature=plcp

...And one in particular where he practically squeals as he tells Cell about how Trunk's isn't quite as strong as he is, but it would be hard to tell the difference between them.

[CaBrPi]

While I don't remember hearing any of the Ocean voices on TV (though I'm quite sure I was following the series back then, despite being 4-5), I've watched several clips featuring Mr. Drummond in the role, so I can't really say that I'm terribly familiar with the voice, but from what I've heard...

Well, to be honest, the voice itself is what puts it below Mr. Sabat for me. It reminds me of Frank Welker's Megatron circa 1984, which is a voice that I do not enjoy. Really, there's nothing wrong with it, but it feels too stereotypical for me. That said, I feel like Mr. Drummond plays the character very well.

Now, if you're referring to Mr. Sabat's impression of Mr. Drummond's voice, from the in-house dub of DBZ... I'd definitely put Mr. Drummond over that. But I do prefer Mr. Sabat's Vegeta as of late, especially his performances in the Kai dub. I've honestly never had trouble differentiating his Vegeta and Piccolo, especially with that subtle, vaguely European accent Mr. Sabat added to Vegeta's voice.

[Fionordequester]

Well, to be honest, the voice itself is what puts it below Mr. Sabat for me. It reminds me of Frank Welker's Megatron circa 1984, which is a voice that I do not enjoy. Really, there's nothing wrong with it, but it feels too stereotypical for me. That said, I feel like Mr. Drummond plays the character very well.

Well, he's below Sabat for me too, even if we're comparing the old FUNI dub, but mainly because of that very thing you complained about, it sounding too typical. But in terms of actual acting, there were times in the Ocean dub where he blew Sabat out of the water...and then other times where he kind of...didn't...if you know what I mean.

[Mewzard]

Part of it is I never heard as much Drummond, it was pretty much always Sabat's Vegeta I had as a kid, but Drummond's to me is just...I dunno. It's a little more over the top from what I've heard. More 'Look! Hear how evil I sound, I'm evil, bwahahaha!'

That's pretty much how we all came into hearing Sabat in 1999: "LOOK AT MY EVIL GRUFF VOICE COUGH COUGH".

Crazy. Differences. Opinions. Time frames. Children. Adults. Poop. Stick.

Well, even coming from a person who started with the Ocean Dub...both Ocean Piccolo and Vegeta sounded like rather like stereotypical villain voices. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself...but if you plan on turning a character either good or even antihero, it might come off a bit weird. Fine voices for villains, but I always thought Vegeta would come off sounding weird if they kept the voice cast (and always did find Piccolo weird in that same way when he was being nice).

Voices fitting the character work best. When they don't, you get a Mike Tyson scenario (imagine a guy like Nappa speaking like Mike Tyson and try to take him very seriously. If he's punching you in the face, it doesn't matter, but it can be hilarious to an outside audience).

The Vegeta and Piccolo voices worked better for evil than for good/jerks. On the other hand, I feel that once Sabat refined his voices, they worked well enough for both sides of the argument.

Particularly evil voices sound best when they stick to characters that aren't going to change. I felt Dabura's dub voice was a fitting choice, for example (and it's a voice I want to see kept for Kai).

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Well, even coming from a person who started with the Ocean Dub...both Ocean Piccolo and Vegeta sounded like rather like stereotypical villain voices. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself...but if you plan on turning a character either good or even antihero, it might come off a bit weird. Fine voices for villains, but I always thought Vegeta would come off sounding weird if they kept the voice cast (and always did find Piccolo weird in that same way when he was being nice).

Mostly agree with this; Drummond and McNeil were wonderful for who their characters were in the Sayain arc, but neither of them really fit what their characters become, particularly McNeil. No fault of theirs, it's just how the series rolls.

Take Vegeta's suicide (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyILqP80gEA); Drummond (And Terry, for that matter) were basically gold, or as gold as that dub was going to get, while McNeil is dropping his pitch between sentences, and not gracefully. But then half of that always goes back to direction.

[linkdude20002001]

It definitely used to, but I feel he's got them pretty well separated from each other now.

Well, I know that even in Kai, there's a scene where Nappa says mean things (I forget what exactly) to Gohan, and Vegeta laughs, but Piccolo is shown on screen...and it sounds like Piccolo laughing... >_>

[penguintruth]

I rather enjoy Sabat's Vegeta and Piccolo now, since he's stopped doing flat impressions of Drummond and McNeil's voices (which also sounded like each other early on) and has improved his acting skills, but to be honest, I still have a preference for Drummond and McNeil.

Now, don't get me wrong. None of these voices are as good as the Japanese voices. There's a certain strong, geniune presence that Ryo Horikawa and Toshio Furukawa have that occupy their characters expertly.

But just listen to how smug and self-assured Drummond's Vegeta is. He's so incredibly full of himself. You can tell just how in love with the sound of his own voice he is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17GaviYfPuo


Then there's McNeil's Piccolo. He's got this great, rough, wild sound to him, but still possesses a centered quality:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS5zTB-zAnA


I think that with the right direction they can do wonderful things with these characters. I hope to hear that in the Ocean dub of Kai.

[Attitudefan]

Well, the directors told Drummond to go for a more psychotic approach. FUNi said something like: "This guy is out to kill everybody, he is a psycho maniac killer with no remorse". So, that's why Vegeta's laughs are psychotic in the first 53 episodes. Redundant points given here but it's the truth. Basically, FUNi did not bother to really consider his regal side. However, Sabat went with the slightly regal sound which, to me, doesn't really come across at all. He's too gruff.

[dbzfan7]

Drummond is okay. He sounds too Saturday morning cartoony. He was better then old Sabat. The new Sabat is much better in my opinion. Mcneil I really don't like, the voice is basically Wolverine for Piccolo. I slightly prefer grunting Sabat of the old dub over that. Hopefully when Ocean Kai comes out they become much better actors and I may enjoy there voices.

[batistabus]

For me, Ocean blows original FUNi out of the water, but Kai FUNi is definitely superior to Ocean. It'll be interesting to hear their take on Kai...I really hope I don't have to re-buy it...

I really like McNeil, I just like Sabat's Kai performance better. Drummond on the other hand...I just don't understand the appeal for him at all. I really hate the voice and the performance. Sure the screams are good, but it just sounds like such a fake caricature of a sinister voice. I know you bring up that "loves the sound of his own voice" line all the time penguintruth, but I don't think it's nearly as masterfully pulled off as you make it seem. When I think of something like that, I think of Horikawa or Nakao. I just don't get that at all from Drummond's Vegeta.

Not that I adore Sabat's Vegeta by any means. I like it the way it is now, and there are some really great moments (Final Flash, crying to Goku after being defeated by Freeza), but I would've preferred if Sabat only voiced Piccolo in Kai. I'm sure someone else at FUNimation could've done a good job with him, and I'm really not a fan of Sabat's Yamucha.

[dbzkfan543]

I am a relatively new fan to Dragon Ball in general (I've...only seen part of the Buu saga and all of Kai...), but my God, just listen to Vegeta when he kills himself. The acting...wow.....better than a lot of Chris Sabat's performance of Vegeta in the original dub (seen that too...), almost better than Kai (but then again, Vegeta's voice in there can go from good to bad randomly).

Myself, I think Eric Vale could do a good Vegeta...